AIBU to feel overwhelmed by non-binary, cancel culture, and woke society?

[FordSiesta]

I've got to the stage where I feel quite apprehensive about the future. It just feels like there will be no 'men' or 'women' or 'boys' and 'girls' and everyone will need to conform to various gender identities and have to remember all the different ways people identify so as not to accidently offend anyone. I'm supportive of transgender people and understand people changing from male to female or vice versa but now there's all this non-binary stuff it's getting confusing.

All these things going on in this 'woke society' and if you aren't seen as wanting to conform with all this new stuff then the 'cancel culture' comes at you.

I just feel like I would be happy if there wasn't so much pressure placed on people to get pronouns correct if for millions of years we've used he/him and she/her and now we need to say they/them when we were taught in school they/them was plural.

I don't have kids yet but I do wonder if I did what the world would be like for them growing up.

AIBU for wanting to just continue with two genders?

I can't be bothered with all these stupid labels. I would laugh in the face of anyone spouting all this rubbish.. It's another example of some people behaving like sheep, Once some people decide to label themselves as whatever, a lot of numpties will follow along. and most stuff is quite meaningless.

Agree. What’s worse is a proportion of young people now feel forced into identifying as non-binary because they feel they have to in order to be politically correct, even though they don’t personally identify as such. It’s fucked up. Most of my youngest’s peers are afflicted with this and even felt that in order to be seen to be woke enough to be gain first ‘proper’ employment (not teenage jobs) they had to be seen to be ‘onboard’ with all of this so have given themselves a unisex first name so they can show prospective employers how seriously they take this bullshit. It’s jumped the shark well and truly.

@Purplependant222

Non-binary is rejecting gender stereotypes/norms associated with identifying as male/female.

Gender is a social construct therefore it’s not how someone outwardly expresses themselves/genitalia but how they most identify.

"Sexism = the women should do the dishes. Feminism = men or women can do the dishes. Gender ideology = whoever is doing the dishes is a woman."

Basically no wonder smart young girls are rejecting traditional female stereotypical gender ideologies to becoming non-binary. And those who want to wear dresses are identifying as female as somehow a man still cant wear makeup/or a dress without being a girl.

Remove gender stereotypes you’ve got equality.

With respect, that’s not strictly true. Many non-binary identifiers deny the existence of biological sex as immutable and insist they ‘don’t know what my chromosomes are’ thus conflating gender and sex.

The stereotypes you speak of are sexist stereotypes, not gender stereotypes.

Lipstick and doing the dishes are traditionally associated with the female sex.

Have you heard Owen Hurxum speak on the Nolan podcast investigating stonewall, and with respect to what it means to be non-binary?

Bigger rubbish I have not recently heard!

*Hurcum

There are 2 biological sexes - male and female. Most DSDs (intersex as per earlier medical terminology) such as Klinefelter syndrome, are in fact sex-based. Biological sex is essential for a sexually dimorphic species to reproduce. One can’t actually change sex, no matter what surgeries and hormone treatments one undertakes. One can approximate the appearance of the other sex and change a few secondary sex characteristics (facial hair etc). Developmental biologists such as Emma Hilton explain this very well.

Gender is primarily sociological and cultural - it’s a collection of behavioural expectations, attitudes and stereotypes attributed to a particular sex. Breaking gender constraints; not adhering to sex-based stereotypes used to be a feminist goal for my generation.

And “non-binary” is hardly new. It’s an old concept repackaged under the ever-expanding trans umbrella. Being non-binary was called being androgynous, gender-fucking, gender-bending, non-conforming etc. by numerous older generations.

The big difference is that now non-binary has come to mean not identifying as male or female, which is nonsense. One doesn’t identify as a sex, sex is determined at conception and observed/recorded at birth. And much discrimination and violence against girls and women the world over is sex-based.

Conflating sex and gender has led to an increasingly incoherent identity politics, where a completely subjective gendered sense of self is elevated, and personality, likes and dislikes, inclinations and talents are gendered in old-fashioned, sexist ways. Meanwhile the immutability of biological sex itself is questioned with utterly dubious pseudo-science and gender theories. Critical thinking has gone out the window.

@Pocodaku

There are 2 biological sexes - male and female. Most DSDs (intersex as per earlier medical terminology) such as Klinefelter syndrome, are in fact sex-based. Biological sex is essential for a sexually dimorphic species to reproduce. One can’t actually change sex, no matter what surgeries and hormone treatments one undertakes. One can approximate the appearance of the other sex and change a few secondary sex characteristics (facial hair etc). Developmental biologists such as Emma Hilton explain this very well.

Gender is primarily sociological and cultural - it’s a collection of behavioural expectations, attitudes and stereotypes attributed to a particular sex. Breaking gender constraints; not adhering to sex-based stereotypes used to be a feminist goal for my generation.

And “non-binary” is hardly new. It’s an old concept repackaged under the ever-expanding trans umbrella. Being non-binary was called being androgynous, gender-fucking, gender-bending, non-conforming etc. by numerous older generations.

The big difference is that now non-binary has come to mean not identifying as male or female, which is nonsense. One doesn’t identify as a sex, sex is determined at conception and observed/recorded at birth. And much discrimination and violence against girls and women the world over is sex-based.

Conflating sex and gender has led to an increasingly incoherent identity politics, where a completely subjective gendered sense of self is elevated, and personality, likes and dislikes, inclinations and talents are gendered in old-fashioned, sexist ways. Meanwhile the immutability of biological sex itself is questioned with utterly dubious pseudo-science and gender theories. Critical thinking has gone out the window.

👆🏻 This.

@HiJenny35

You can call yourself whatever you want but it's hardly difficult to respect someone else's right to not want to be called a girl or miss or identity as a woman. And whatever you want is kinda irrelevant, children are leading this, the teenagers are telling us they don't want to be labelled anymore and conform to the roles we have previously and they are moving on, this isn't a fad that is going away.

Seems to me like all they are doing is creating lots of new and completely pointless labels. Odd behaviour from people who supposedly don't want to be labelled.

@Purplependant222

Non-binary is rejecting gender stereotypes/norms associated with identifying as male/female.

Gender is a social construct therefore it’s not how someone outwardly expresses themselves/genitalia but how they most identify.

"Sexism = the women should do the dishes. Feminism = men or women can do the dishes. Gender ideology = whoever is doing the dishes is a woman."

Basically no wonder smart young girls are rejecting traditional female stereotypical gender ideologies to becoming non-binary. And those who want to wear dresses are identifying as female as somehow a man still cant wear makeup/or a dress without being a girl.

Remove gender stereotypes you’ve got equality.

Feminists have been doing this for decades, centuries even, without denying the fact that they are women.

Gender ideology doesn't work to eliminate gender stereotypes. It upholds upholds reinforces them.

SarahandQuack, I respect Betty Friedan, whose writing woke a lot of women up to the sexism they were experiencing in the 1960s. But she had some quite conservative views, unlike the vast majority of second- wave feminists.

In 50 years of feminism, I have never heard any ‘intense discussions’ about whether lesbianism was incompatible with feminism. It doesn’t make sense. Lesbians have always been part of the movement. Of course, among thousands of women, you’ll get numerous opinions. Conservative women could want liberation too! But their views were not mainstream feminist.

Please tell me where you got the idea that second-wave feminists had intense discussions about whether lesbianism was incompatible with feminism.

I’m guessing you were not there at the time.

It sounds as

Ooops. It sounds as if you’ve read that feminists had ‘intense discussions’ about whether lesbianism was incompatible with feminism. Fair enough that someone may have had that experience. But it was not a mainstream view.

Please don’t rewrite history!

Those of you who are saying it’s not an issue in real life clearly don’t work in education where this is rife. It’s not just the students but those making the policies too.

@Smallkeys

Quincy What do you mean of course they are that’s why there are sex changes nobody would go through that trauma if they didn’t feel they had the wrongs bits or am I missing something ?

It's not a sex change, it's plastic surgery to give a superficial appearance of the opposite sex or rather nullifying the body's own form, particularly for girls. It's not possible to change a body's sex Everyone is born in their own body

Gender dysphoria is real though. Will be interesting to see how many young people being funnelled through medicalisation are able to live fulfilling lives afterwards - thinking mostly US and Canada at present.

It's just an unknown at the current time

De-transitioners Day March 12th - important to take note if every story to be able to evaluate and better tailor treatment for gender dysphoria. Long-term follow-up should be the norm.

@Momicrone

Anon123, you do realise that your children will eventually grow up to make their own decisions about their lives, bodies, sexuality, gender?

There's no way my child whose nearly a teenager will decide he feels like a girl. I can guarantee that. He's brought up knowing that he can do whatever sports he wants, date who he wants but it is not possible to change his sex. Thankfully he understands biology at his young age.

@StrawberrySquirrelThief

Those of you who are saying it’s not an issue in real life clearly don’t work in education where this is rife. It’s not just the students but those making the policies too.

Much much less so in private education

Too busy doing sport and extra curricular and homework!

@Pocodaku

There are 2 biological sexes - male and female. Most DSDs (intersex as per earlier medical terminology) such as Klinefelter syndrome, are in fact sex-based. Biological sex is essential for a sexually dimorphic species to reproduce. One can’t actually change sex, no matter what surgeries and hormone treatments one undertakes. One can approximate the appearance of the other sex and change a few secondary sex characteristics (facial hair etc). Developmental biologists such as Emma Hilton explain this very well.

Gender is primarily sociological and cultural - it’s a collection of behavioural expectations, attitudes and stereotypes attributed to a particular sex. Breaking gender constraints; not adhering to sex-based stereotypes used to be a feminist goal for my generation.

And “non-binary” is hardly new. It’s an old concept repackaged under the ever-expanding trans umbrella. Being non-binary was called being androgynous, gender-fucking, gender-bending, non-conforming etc. by numerous older generations.

The big difference is that now non-binary has come to mean not identifying as male or female, which is nonsense. One doesn’t identify as a sex, sex is determined at conception and observed/recorded at birth. And much discrimination and violence against girls and women the world over is sex-based.

Conflating sex and gender has led to an increasingly incoherent identity politics, where a completely subjective gendered sense of self is elevated, and personality, likes and dislikes, inclinations and talents are gendered in old-fashioned, sexist ways. Meanwhile the immutability of biological sex itself is questioned with utterly dubious pseudo-science and gender theories. Critical thinking has gone out the window.

Well put!

Thread:
twitter.com/KDansky/status/1491149826117226496

For those who don’t know who Kara Dansky is, she was a lawyer, wrote the book ‘Abolition of Sex’, heads up the WDI in the US
www.karadansky.com

Anon123, it's not about changing his sex, if your son decided he was non binary, there is not alot you can do with that, you can't control his thoughts inside his head, you can force his actions possibly though

Agathamystery, sorry I should clarify, I did not mean going down the route of medical intervention, I meant experimenting with pronouns/genders/categorising etc. It may be a phase, it may not, but if it keeps the child away from depression and suicidal thoughts, through the tumultuous teenage years, I support it.

To me it feels like the modern version of religion from many centuries ago. Cult like and the hunting out of those who do not conform. It hugely worries me that DD10 will soon be giving head space to all this and I've been thinking how I can explain it to her at the age she is at now. I suspect that some of her friend group will go down this route.

It's not just all the issues related to denying sex meaning men can take over our sport, safe spaces etc, but why are so many young females fleeing women hood in large numbers? Has feminism failed?

@littleowls83

I think you've been reading the Daily Mail. In real life so long as you make a decent effort to get pronouns and terminology right and are prepared to admit your ignorance and apologise if you get something wrong then an accidental slip up isn't a disaster and you don't get 'cancelled'. Being kind to people and respectful of their beliefs and identify isn't a new thing.

'Be Kind' is what got women into this mess.

@Momicrone

Anon123, it's not about changing his sex, if your son decided he was non binary, there is not alot you can do with that, you can't control his thoughts inside his head, you can force his actions possibly though

My son doesn't believe in non binary and neither do I. He knows he is a boy. Which he is. Luckily I know my child and he understands a boy is a boy.

That was for @littleowls83

I don't feel overwhelmed but I feel angry that everyone has to pander to this shite. Anyone see the Brit Awards last night? There is no longer a best female and best male category, just Best Artist. It's bullshit.

I have an 11 yr old DD, last yr she decided she wanted to be a 'they' I told her no she is a she and will forever be a she.

I have tried to explain to her that changing her pronouns makes not one bit of difference to who she is and I think it's important to accept herself for who she is, who she grows into, rather then thinking if she changes her pronouns she will be 'happy'. I am beyond angry that my 11 yr old that is going through so many changes with regards to body and hormones has been subjected to this bullshit.

She called me transphobic and I shrugged my shoulders and said if trying to protect her makes me transphobic then So be it.

@Icenii

To me it feels like the modern version of religion from many centuries ago. Cult like and the hunting out of those who do not conform. It hugely worries me that DD10 will soon be giving head space to all this and I've been thinking how I can explain it to her at the age she is at now. I suspect that some of her friend group will go down this route.

It's not just all the issues related to denying sex meaning men can take over our sport, safe spaces etc, but why are so many young females fleeing women hood in large numbers? Has feminism failed?

I don't think it's a coincidence that large numbers of girls from the digital native generation have decided they don't want to be women.

They grow up seeing women being abused in online porn and thinking that is normal, they are understandably terrified of becoming adult women because they believe that is how women are treated (they're not totally wrong about that), and they have easy access to all this information about transgender identities (including from legitimate sources such as the NHS and their schools) which leads them to believe that womanhood is something they can opt out of.

Unfortunately they can't actually become men, and if they proceed down the medical transition path, they will just become permanently damaged, probably infertile women.

If it were actually possible to choose whether you are a man or a woman, women would be treated a hell of a lot better than they actually are because otherwise most people would just choose to be a man and then the human species would be at risk of extinction.