Page 5 | AIBU to think Brits don't care about state involvement in murders in NI?

Somatronic · 2022-02-08T14:36:20+00:00

More evidence of state collusion in loyalist murders of Catholics/nationalists in Northern Ireland. This time it's the RUC. [[https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/feb/08/evidence-police-in-belfast-colluded-with-loyalists-in-the-troubles-report-finds]] AIBU to think that British people don't care that their army and British police forces were involved in the murder of civilians in Northern Ireland? That there's a strange attitude that only the IRA or republican actions were wrong?

BewareTheBeardedDragon · 08/02/2022 18:06

@Cheekypeach

I mean have you actually read the article? It solely concerns the Belfast police, nothing to do with British agencies

The report by the police ombudsman 'finds that 11 murdered citizens and their families were systematically failed by the British State.'

The report itself names the British State as culpable - not just the Belfast Police alone.

Onlyforcake · 08/02/2022 18:10

I don't know a single person who thinks the state did/ are acting at all legitimately re. NI. I'm in Britain, never heard anyone say anything other than Britain have no right and should have left. So YABU to assume that everyone share this position.

Cheekypeach · 08/02/2022 18:12

@BewareTheBeardedDragon that’s not the same as collusion.

Newrumpus · 08/02/2022 18:13

@NiceShrubbery

Yanbu. I care but most people don't bother to look beyond the propaganda. Most British people know next to nothing about Ireland and what England did to it.

Upon what is this assertion based?

Johnnybaby · 08/02/2022 18:17

This isn't true though, the start of the troubles as we refer to them is widely accepted to be Bloody Sunday. Which was, you guessed it, the British army massacring unarmed civilians.

Johnnybaby · 08/02/2022 18:17

Sorry that was a failed reply to the poster who said that the army were responding to terrorist activities and that's why NI is what it is. Mm

SolasAnla · 08/02/2022 18:23

@MorningStarling

People on all sides did things they shouldn't have. Ultimately the army and police response was to the actions of the paramilitary groups. Sometimes they did bad things, but so did the paramilitary groups. If there had been no IRA killing or bombing, no Loyalist counter-activities, then there would have been no need for the police/army to have done what they did.

The people to blame for what happened in Northern Ireland are the terrorists and their supporters.

🙄

"I support the police executing citizens without any legal process."

Ok ....

Alliswells · 08/02/2022 18:40

@MorningStarling

People on all sides did things they shouldn't have. Ultimately the army and police response was to the actions of the paramilitary groups. Sometimes they did bad things, but so did the paramilitary groups. If there had been no IRA killing or bombing, no Loyalist counter-activities, then there would have been no need for the police/army to have done what they did.

The people to blame for what happened in Northern Ireland are the terrorists and their supporters.

Yes that's the whole point! The legal police force and the legal British army colluded with loyalist terror groups and killed innocent people.

The police force and the British government directly murdered innocent people for example Bloody Sunday and several other shoot to kills of unarmed victims.

They also colluded and cover up and protected loyalist terrorists.

Do you not actually understand that? Can you imagine where you live, if the legal police force were running about with massive guns and were in cahoots with terrorists who are plotting to kill you because of your religion?

I'm going to repeat it again, the LEGAL police force and LEGAL British government were in cahoots with loyalist terrorists.

Alliswells · 08/02/2022 18:43

@FortVictoria

The people of Northern Ireland (Catholic and Protestant alike) ARE British. So quite odd to say the Brits don’t care. Do you mean that the English don't care?

No they most certainly are not. And you are completely ignorant to think that. People of NI can have dual Nationality and be Irish citizens.

Ignorant comments like yours can cause great great hurt and offence. But then you know that don't you

Alliswells · 08/02/2022 18:45

@roarfeckingroarr

British police didn't bomb civilians and politicians

They gave the loyalist parliamilitaries the information so they could murder. They protected and covered up for loyalist parliamilitaries.

ivykaty44 · 08/02/2022 18:51

I guess this would be because during the 70's and 80s growing up the threat of IRA bombs was there in the background and a threat to the brits

British and Americans caused problems in Afghanistan and there are also terrorists involved, do we look on the army and the terrorists in the same light and should we?

olivehater · 08/02/2022 18:55

I distinctly remember the boys that were killed in the bombing in Manchester as a teen on a say I nearly went myself. I was was also evacuated from my college due to a bomb threat half way through an A-level exam. So no I don’t massively care to be honest.

bindud · 08/02/2022 18:56

You're right, people don't care. But there was a strong emphasis on painting the IRA as the bad guys in the British media, so it's not surprising really.

I agree, there is a lot of ignorance in general around the Troubles.

bindud · 08/02/2022 18:58

I mean the conversation is often dominated by the IRA as if they were the only terrorists.

stairway · 08/02/2022 18:59

It’s not too much of a surprise that the British government were in cahoots with the loyalist terrorists at the time. The American government supported the IRA until 9/11. It was all violent tit for tat. This actually featured on our news today so there obviously is interest in the UK and British do care.

BewareTheBeardedDragon · 08/02/2022 19:02

@olivehater

I distinctly remember the boys that were killed in the bombing in Manchester as a teen on a say I nearly went myself. I was was also evacuated from my college due to a bomb threat half way through an A-level exam. So no I don’t massively care to be honest.

An eye for an eye? You don't care that the state helped unionists to murder innocent civilians because the IRA murdered innocent civilians?

StoneofDestiny · 08/02/2022 19:08

I care. The public should be informed more so they can care. The very idea that our army can go rogue or that our government has, and does, collude in murder is scary, but sadly very believable.
If justice and accountability is not forthcoming, it allows feeling of injustice to fester and bitterness to grow.
Very few school teach about the history of Ireland/Northern Ireland - so the ignorance of the population is not surprising. You have to be educated about something to care.

Bairnsmum05 · 08/02/2022 19:11

I'm scottish and I care as do a lot of scottish people I know. It's talked about a lot in my circles.

CoilWatershed · 08/02/2022 19:18

@olivehater

I distinctly remember the boys that were killed in the bombing in Manchester as a teen on a say I nearly went myself. I was was also evacuated from my college due to a bomb threat half way through an A-level exam. So no I don’t massively care to be honest.

And that was the fault of the people in the betting shop how exactly?

CailleachGranda · 08/02/2022 19:19

@olivehater

I distinctly remember the boys that were killed in the bombing in Manchester as a teen on a say I nearly went myself. I was was also evacuated from my college due to a bomb threat half way through an A-level exam. So no I don’t massively care to be honest.

So you don't care that one set of terrorists, with the help of the state, murdered some children because another set also did

Not sure I can begin to understand the logic there

Is there a hierarchy of terrorist. A hierarchy of victims? Does the state get to collide in murdering its own citizens

Fuck me

HeyItsPickleRick · 08/02/2022 19:29

English living in NI here and I agree with you. I don't understand why people keep bringing up what the IRA did as justification for the murder of civilian Catholics. These were already a really oppressed group of people in what was originally their own country. In fact, I've got to say the whole loyalist perspective baffles me completely especially when it's obvious most of the rest of the UK doesn't really give a shit, as evidenced by Brexit.

DandyMandy · 08/02/2022 19:29

The English always see themselves as victims and this thread proves it with many proudly claiming that they don't care about Irish people. Would they say the same thing about black and asian people? No they wouldn't, but they get away with it because Irish people are white (although they weren't always viewed as white by the way). Protestants are extremely privileged and they love throwing blame around. British soldiers were sent to the North of Ireland to murder Catholics. The police also did the same thing.

StoneofDestiny · 08/02/2022 19:31

In fact, I've got to say the whole loyalist perspective baffles me completely especially when it's obvious most of the rest of the UK doesn't really give a shit, as evidenced by Brexit

StoneofDestiny · 08/02/2022 19:33

I'm scottish and I care as do a lot of scottish people I know

I agree with this. But I've also lived in various areas of England and the overwhelming view is indifference (more likely to get 'an interest' in places like Liverpool with a strong Irish heritage in parts)

SmithofSilver · 08/02/2022 19:39

@olivehater

I distinctly remember the boys that were killed in the bombing in Manchester as a teen on a say I nearly went myself. I was was also evacuated from my college due to a bomb threat half way through an A-level exam. So no I don’t massively care to be honest.

So its only English civilians matter to you then? Well that and your a levels. The innocent victims of state sanctioned murder in a civil war caused by your government don't matter because they didn't live don't the road for you? I heard England was parochial but Jeez that's a whole new level!