Page 6 | AIBU to think Brits don't care about state involvement in murders in NI?

Somatronic · 2022-02-08T14:36:20+00:00

More evidence of state collusion in loyalist murders of Catholics/nationalists in Northern Ireland. This time it's the RUC. [[https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/feb/08/evidence-police-in-belfast-colluded-with-loyalists-in-the-troubles-report-finds]] AIBU to think that British people don't care that their army and British police forces were involved in the murder of civilians in Northern Ireland? That there's a strange attitude that only the IRA or republican actions were wrong?

SockFluffInTheBath · 08/02/2022 19:42

@StoneofDestiny

I'm scottish and I care as do a lot of scottish people I know

I agree with this. But I've also lived in various areas of England and the overwhelming view is indifference (more likely to get 'an interest' in places like Liverpool with a strong Irish heritage in parts)

I would agree with this. We’re perpetually told it’s none of our business although a lot of us would be quite happy to see a reunited Ireland anyway. There aren’t many English people these days who are desperate to hang onto NI.

ivykaty44 · 08/02/2022 19:44

So its only English civilians matter to you then?

if you have a war/troubles

which part of that is going go trouble you most? that which affects you or the part that affects others across the water?

CailleachGranda · 08/02/2022 19:48

Parochial is the word

Sockfluffinthebath. Who tells you it's none of your business?

CoilWatershed · 08/02/2022 19:48

@ivykaty44

So its only English civilians matter to you then?

if you have a war/troubles

which part of that is going go trouble you most? that which affects you or the part that affects others across the water?

If the police in my country are colluding in the murder of innocent civilians then yeah I'm going to care about that.

NiceShrubbery · 08/02/2022 19:51

@TheKeatingFive

It was caused by the British and their behavior in the 1800s.

Much earlier than that. 12th century. Norman invasion.

True, but watching the film Black '47 would be the quickest way for English people to understand the Troubles, and a lot of other things besides.

DandyMandy · 08/02/2022 19:51

@ivykaty44

So its only English civilians matter to you then?

if you have a war/troubles

which part of that is going go trouble you most? that which affects you or the part that affects others across the water?

Yet the English and Americans always talk about Afghanistan/Palestine and Israel even though they aren't close to those countries. You have all the sympathy in the world for those people, but none for those who live less than an hour away from you by airplane.

SockFluffInTheBath · 08/02/2022 19:52

@CailleachGranda

Parochial is the word

Sockfluffinthebath. Who tells you it's none of your business?

It’s a fairly routine riposte, the English need to butt out of the devolved nations’ business and I broadly agree. We’re told we don’t know, we don’t understand, we need to keep our opinions to ourselves. It’s probably true to be fair. Westminster acts like it knows fuck all about anything north of Hertfordshire let alone Scotland/Wales/Ireland.

SmithofSilver · 08/02/2022 20:04

It’s a fairly routine riposte, the English need to butt out of the devolved nations’ business and I broadly agree. We’re told we don’t know, we don’t understand, we need to keep our opinions to ourselves. It’s probably true to be fair.

Really? You think you should rip a country in two, cause a civil war, have state sanctioned murder, vote for Brexit and stir everything up again then walk away and butt out?

calmrood · 08/02/2022 20:11

The amount of whataboutery never ceases to amaze me.

SockFluffInTheBath · 08/02/2022 20:12

If a person from another country tells me to butt out of their business then yes I would respect that. Did I personally take part in it watch over any of that? No, I didn’t and I’ll be honest and say I don’t take responsibility for it. My family is Scottish and I know that through history the English have been bastards to all the other countries around them. I’m not proud of my country’s history but it’s not my fault and I can’t change it.

What happened to the civilians through the Troubles was awful, beyond words awful, and there’s absolutely no justification whoever was responsible.

My personal opinion, if you do want it, I’d that the people of NI and Ireland should choose their own future- reunification or otherwise.

Cheekypeach · 08/02/2022 20:12

@SmithofSilver

It’s a fairly routine riposte, the English need to butt out of the devolved nations’ business and I broadly agree. We’re told we don’t know, we don’t understand, we need to keep our opinions to ourselves. It’s probably true to be fair.

Really? You think you should rip a country in two, cause a civil war, have state sanctioned murder, vote for Brexit and stir everything up again then walk away and butt out?

‘You’? You mean Sock did that herself, did she?

stairway · 08/02/2022 20:15

SmithofSilver I think your response is an example why some Brits loose interest, there is so much anger and hate directed at us personally, when in reality we have very little control in what our government has done in the past or even present for that matter. What can we do really about it? Just glad the violence is over.

BewareTheBeardedDragon · 08/02/2022 20:27

I am half Irish, quarter English and quarter German. I have a foot in different camps of National shame and national oppression, and various particular family circumstances that add to the nuance and confusion.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that individual English civilians are personally responsible for our governments actions during the conflict, or that any individual is personally responsible for 'doing something about it'.
But governments are aware of and responsive to (to differing extents) the general publics views on things. More Brits/English people taking an interest in, and caring about - maybe getting angry about - the horrors and injustices that have been inflicted within our nation (the UK) in very recent history, and caring about the fact that the victims have living family, and that feelings still run very deep, and that this recent history is still relevant to current everyday life and the peace still fragile - this might help.

SmithofSilver · 08/02/2022 20:34

@stairway

SmithofSilver I think your response is an example why some Brits loose interest, there is so much anger and hate directed at us personally, when in reality we have very little control in what our government has done in the past or even present for that matter. What can we do really about it? Just glad the violence is over.

I understand

It is far easier to shrug your shoulders and blame other people for being angry than it is to educate yourself.

SockFluffInTheBath · 08/02/2022 20:37

I understand smile It is far easier to shrug your shoulders and blame other people for being angry than it is to educate yourself.

That’s a massive reach. She didn’t blame anyone for being angry, her point was the sins of the father..,

SmithofSilver · 08/02/2022 20:39

You’? You mean Sock did that herself, did she?

Have you never heard of you been used in any other way than to mean you singularly?! That's wild!

ivykaty44 · 08/02/2022 20:40

Yet the English and Americans always talk about Afghanistan/Palestine and Israel even though they aren't close to those countries. You have all the sympathy in the world for those people, but none for those who live less than an hour away from you by airplane.

do you think the Brits are concerned about whats happening in countries far away that don't affect them? MSM may report on it, but its really not worried about apart from the terrorist element

SockFluffInTheBath · 08/02/2022 20:40

@SmithofSilver if there was anything I could do that would change our history I would do it in a heartbeat. There’s nothing I can offer you but words, and they’re not enough. I would be furious in your shoes, but it’s still not my fault.

stairway · 08/02/2022 20:40

SmithofSilver I think you are misunderstanding me. I’m on this thread as I am interested in Irish history. It’s just there is a lot of hate directed at the ordinary folk when it’s the government’s doing. We know there are alot of cover ups.

Furbulousnous · 08/02/2022 20:41

I’ve lived in England a long time ( from
nI) and No, they don’t. They don’t understand, and they aren’t interested in understanding.
Partly because of press coverage at the time many British people seem to think that there was one ‘bad guy’ - the IRA- they ignore loyalist paramilitaries and terrorists all together and anything the British State or their soldiers did was to beat the IRA. End of.

Furbulousnous · 08/02/2022 20:43

Their ignorance is astounding to me but they just don’t care. Which is why none of them, or very few, cared or understood what they were doing to The Peace in Northern Ireland when they voted for Brexit.

ivykaty44 · 08/02/2022 20:46

Partly because of press coverage at the time

and partly due to many families having sons in the army, they knew they'd do a tour of NI and they worried about their own

ivykaty44 · 08/02/2022 20:48

Which is why none of them, or very few, cared or understood what they were doing to The Peace in Northern Ireland when they voted for Brexit.

do you not think the 48% that voted against Brexit aren't aware of this?

SockFluffInTheBath · 08/02/2022 20:48

@Furbulousnous d’you know it’s funny I don’t remember you but you seem to have met all British people…

Cheekypeach · 08/02/2022 20:50

@SmithofSilver

You’? You mean Sock did that herself, did she?

Have you never heard of you been used in any other way than to mean you singularly?! That's wild!

I have, and when it is in this sense, it’s usually decried as racist.

I refuse to believe you would use the collective ‘you’ to accuse a person of any other nationality of their country’s past wrongdoings.