AIBU to think Brits don't care about state involvement in murders in NI?

[Somatronic]

More evidence of state collusion in loyalist murders of Catholics/nationalists in Northern Ireland. This time it's the RUC.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/feb/08/evidence-police-in-belfast-colluded-with-loyalists-in-the-troubles-report-finds

AIBU to think that British people don't care that their army and British police forces were involved in the murder of civilians in Northern Ireland? That there's a strange attitude that only the IRA or republican actions were wrong?

The people of Northern Ireland (Catholic and Protestant alike) ARE British. So quite odd to say the Brits don’t care. Do you mean that the English don't care?

As a child growing up all I remember from the news was IRA car bombs or bombs killing civilian men, women and children in England.

So because this is what you remember the news reporting it is understandable if a supposedly just police force helped in the killing of innocent Catholic teenagers? Or is there some other inference?

I mean, we're talking about the state and a terrorist group oppressing a minority population and that's OK because they didn't just like down and take it? Shocking stuff.

I think it is difficult for people who've never experienced the police actively working against their interests to understand what that feels like.

However, this period has been extensively studied and written about. There isn't much excuse for people proudly stating ignorant opinions. Education is there for the taking.

The people of Northern Ireland (Catholic and Protestant alike) ARE British.

Northern Ireland is not part of Great Britain.

I understand why English people may not feel too disposed towards the IRA

You do understand we are talking about a massacre of every soul standing in a shop including teenagers? Not under the counter executions of IRA members even, but just spraying bullets at people going about their daily lives? Who wouldn't have been in the IRA or able to do a thing about either them or Margaret Thatcher? Who were considerably politically more innocent and less protected than Margaret Thatcher, come to think of it.

The people of the north of Ireland are not british.

My understanding is that the unionists actually deliberately provoked the conflict in the beginning by committing acts and blaming the republicans?

I care, though I don't know enough about it, but then my dad is from Belfast.

Therefore the collusion isn’t with the British police is it? And the OP was very misleading?

I mean have you actually read the article? It solely concerns the Belfast police, nothing to do with British agencies

You've got to go back a lot further than the Troubles to start to understand Ireland. It was caused by the British and their behavior in the 1800s.

The people of Northern Ireland (Catholic and Protestant alike) ARE British. So quite odd to say the Brits don’t care. Do you mean that the English don't care?

Whoa!

@FortVictoria

The people of Northern Ireland (Catholic and Protestant alike) ARE British. So quite odd to say the Brits don’t care. Do you mean that the English don't care?

Well you’ve just shown your immense ignorance there.

Northern Ireland is not part of Britain.

Many people in Northern Ireland consider themselves Irish. And rightly so.

What happened is obviously indefensible but I'm not sure how caring ought to manifest itself?

I disapprove of a large amount of British Actions in NI - these things were not done in my name and usually by a British Government I didn't vote for.

It was caused by the British and their behavior in the 1800s.

Much earlier than that. 12th century. Norman invasion.

NI is part of the UK, not Britain and it is massively misunderstood in England. Calling it 'the troubles' is so insulting it was a bloody, messy, civil war on both sides.

@Aroundtheworldin80moves

You've got to go back a lot further than the Troubles to start to understand Ireland. It was caused by the British and their behavior in the 1800s.

But "The British" isn't a homogenous group any more than "The Irish" My English ancestors in the 1800s were illiterate and didn't have a vote. I'm ashamed about the way Britain has treated Ireland but it hasn't been done in my (or my ancestor's) name.

I think there's a feeling that if we look too closely the anger comes back and therefore it makes the violence restarting in earnest more likely. The idea that letting sleeping dogs lie is the essence of the GFA is strong. People are picking old violence over new violence.

However I thought 30 years ago and I think now that state-sanctioned murder is evil. Something that we shouldn't ignore or brush under the carpet. I think that about American intervention in SE Asia and Central America, why wouldn't I think it about my own elected representatives?

@FortVictoria

The people of Northern Ireland (Catholic and Protestant alike) ARE British. So quite odd to say the Brits don’t care. Do you mean that the English don't care?

That is incorrect.

I wouldn’t personally call the Normans British.

@daimbarsatemydogsbone

What happened is obviously indefensible but I'm not sure how caring ought to manifest itself? I disapprove of a large amount of British Actions in NI - these things were not done in my name and usually by a British Government I didn't vote for.

I'm not speaking of you in particular here, but you must admit, the ignorance and prejudice is shocking. People could at least understand what happened in what is part of the UK, within living memory. The people of NI even speak the same language! It can't possibly be that hard to understand and form a better opinion than "oh how could I be expected to know, all I saw on the news was the IRA being horrible" while your government looks to shut down further ombudsman reports into what happened.

Why aren't they even slightly annoyed by that?

@TheKeatingFive

It was caused by the British and their behavior in the 1800s.

Much earlier than that. 12th century. Norman invasion.

Or the viking invasion 8th century...

I wouldn’t personally call the Normans British.

That was the point at which 'English' interference with Ireland began. You might not call them English, but the normans became the ruling class in England at that point.

there was a strong emphasis on painting the IRA as the bad guys in the British media

Yeah, I mean, imagine trying to paint ACTUAL TERRORISTS as the bad guys... Obviously too young to understand, or if not, clearly paid no attention to 70s/80s.

No it's not clear cut in terms of believing the state was only good, but bloody hell.

The plantation of Ulster (1609) was a key historical development in sowing seeds for the 20th century problems in NI.

Yeah, I mean, imagine trying to paint ACTUAL TERRORISTS as the bad guys

There was an equally problematic set of bad guy terrorists that didn't get much airtime in the British media. Is the point.