To give DP a deadline for the proposal

[Teqillatey]

DP and I have been together for 18 months, lived together for a year and are both extremely happy. We’ve discussed our future a lot and both agree that marriage is important to us and something we want in our future and DP will often make references to “when we get married” and so on.

We are both in our 30s and both spent years in a bad long term relationship before we met, so I’m now at the stage where I don’t want to waste any more time and would like full commitment and to settle down. I’m of the view that 2 years together should be more than enough time to judge whether or not you want to spend the rest of your life with somebody and personally I’m not keen on waiting much longer than that for a proposal. DP’s good friend recently proposed to his partner of 1 year and DP mentioned to me how soon he felt it was, which concerns me that our expectations may not be aligned.

Would it be too pushy and wrong of me to discuss my timescales and expectations in terms of the 2 year rule or do I have to shut up and wait it out?

@anonno1

I am 48 years old and in my entire life, I am not aware of one woman who proposed to her husband. Nor am I aware of any OTT Instagram-orientated proposals either (if this is a thing now, thank god I missed that).

On MN, it’s presented as a choice between a totally OTT proposal, or ‘sit him down and have a conversation.’

In the real world, most men just propose in a resonantly privately and in a normal way and he either gives her a ring or they go and choose one together. Then they let people know they are engaged. Hardly a shocker. It has nothing to do with Disney or Instagram or Downton Abbey or Facebook . It’s just normal life.

Why everyone on MN has to be so dour, I’ll never understand. It’s really is the misery Olympics on here sometimes.

The OP feels that her OH is not going to propose in the time frame she wants without an ultimatum. So he doesn't seem to be matching up to your assessment of most men.

What would you advise her to do in this situation if you clearly think that her sitting down to communicate to him is such an off the wall suggestion?

@Justmuddlingalong

Blaming a traditional background to explain waiting for a man to propose is a cop out. Jeez, just have a grown up conversation.

This. You say you have traditional values- in my mind, that would be not living together before marriage etc. I think you just want a big romantic proposal- fair enough, but just say that! Maybe you partner isn't that sort of man. If you love him and want to marry him, ask to set a date.

I’ve already said what I think she should do Drinkingallthewine. Thete’s a difference between letting him know you are anxious about fertility, etc etc and straight up proposing to him.

I definitely don’t think she should give him an ultimatum, no. That’s cutting off your nose to spite the face. It what some women might do I suppose, is have a timescale in their minds - eg. ‘if he hadn’t proposed in x months, I’m off.’ Then leave him and see what happens? Some men are just dopey.

I don’t know anyone except my mum with her second DH who had the big proposal. With my friends it was more along the lines that their DC is starting school so the woman says ‘I want us to have the same name so let’s get married before they start school’. Or with some it was when they bought a joint property they jointly decided to marry as well.

@anonno1

I am 48 years old and in my entire life, I am not aware of one woman who proposed to her husband. Nor am I aware of any OTT Instagram-orientated proposals either (if this is a thing now, thank god I missed that).

On MN, it’s presented as a choice between a totally OTT proposal, or ‘sit him down and have a conversation.’

In the real world, most men just propose in a resonantly privately and in a normal way and he either gives her a ring or they go and choose one together. Then they let people know they are engaged. Hardly a shocker. It has nothing to do with Disney or Instagram or Downton Abbey or Facebook . It’s just normal life.

Why everyone on MN has to be so dour, I’ll never understand. It’s really is the misery Olympics on here sometimes.

I honestly don’t see why having a conversation about marriage with the person who you want to marry is either dour or miserable. I genuinely don’t understand the thought process of people who want to get married without said conversation.

Also, I’m 15 years younger than you and I am aware of multiple cases where the woman has proposed. And OTT social media proposals. And everything in between. Things don’t cease to exist because the scope of your personal experience is apparently quite limited.

So is a man privately asking you to marry him now deemed “The Big Proposal.”

What’s “Big” about it?

What I am saying MeSanniesareBrannies, is that just because a woman has an expectation that the man who is supposed to love her can should be able to get his arse in gear and make the effort to actually ask her to marry him (), does not mean she is an airhead who wants to make an Instagram hoopla about it.

If that’s what you expect of a man, that’s what you expect. It has nothing to do with anyone else. Why compromise?

annono1 Genuine question - why should an adult, capable woman (however much she loves her partner) hand over to them the sole responsibility to decide whether, when, if etc she is to get married? Why should she give up all wish or ability to choose, and why give to someone else the absolute power to decide her future at their whim?

Of course, if that's what someone really wants, they must do as they like. We shouldn't stop them. But as pps have said, marriage is one of the most significant legal, financial, personal decisions that anyone ever makes. It seems very strange not to want to make it on an equal, shared basis.

My grandmother used to say "if you're getting milk for free why buy a dairy cow?"

@anonno1 I don’t disagree with that.

@SequinnedShawl

My grandmother used to say "if you're getting milk for free why buy a dairy cow?"

Mine used to say “Why buy a book if you can take one out of the library for nothing?” Wise old birds.

scottishnames - I don’t think it’s ever as binary as you make out though, in reality. Women (and men) in a relationship are usually fairly tuned in to where the other is at regarding life stages, attitudes, children, commitment, etc. I don’t think many men really expect to be turned down when they propose - put it that way! They sense the time is right and that will have a lot to do with the vibe or signals (however explicit) the woman gives off.

In other words, most women expect men to propose to them and men will know this. If they know the women at all, they will just know instinctively what she wants and do it. It’s not about ‘handing power to him’ or any such nonsense. It’s just about being in tune with each other and him not being a total wet lettuce.

@anonno1

scottishnames - I don’t think it’s ever as binary as you make out though, in reality. Women (and men) in a relationship are usually fairly tuned in to where the other is at regarding life stages, attitudes, children, commitment, etc. I don’t think many men really expect to be turned down when they propose - put it that way! They sense the time is right and that will have a lot to do with the vibe or signals (however explicit) the woman gives off.

In other words, most women expect men to propose to them and men will know this. If they know the women at all, they will just know instinctively what she wants and do it. It’s not about ‘handing power to him’ or any such nonsense. It’s just about being in tune with each other and him not being a total wet lettuce.

I don't think that sounds unreasonable, @anonno1, but how then do you explain the sheer numbers of posts every week or two on the Relationships board as long as I've been on Mn, in which women are desperately hoping to be proposed to by a man they've lived with for years and had several children with? These women are sending off 'Propose to me yesterday, please, I beg you!' vibes, and have been doing for years in most cases, by the time they post -- and their partners are either unattuned to this, or perfectly aware of the vibe, but consciously ignoring it because they don't want to marry.

I think a 3 year wait is more reasonable

Yes Rossnagoose. But if it’s clear a man doesn’t want to marry you, why on earth would you think he’s going to suddenly have a change if heart just because you propose to him?! It makes no sense.

There is nothing to be gained in proposing to a man who can’t even galvanise himself to propose to you because it will be like dragging a dead horse through life, frankly. If he can’t even be bothered with the basic act of proposing to the woman he supposedly wants to have his children (or maybe she already has had them) - then what can he actually be bothered to do? Why saddle yourself with such a deadweight individual? These are the women who will be on MN complaining the DH never bothers to get her a birthday gift so she has to buy it herself - this kind of thing. You reap what you sow and no point flogging a dead horse (as my mother used to say).

Op will be back on here in 3-5 years I bet whining that he doesn't help out. Probably doesn't now but she expects that will change when the babies arrive

Things have disproportionately escalated on this thread 😂 DP is absolutely great around the house and is far more proactive than I am in that regard. What an excessive and irrelevant assumption to jump to, simply based on the fact we have traditional views about how a proposal should work.

In any event, there’s been some really helpful posts on here and I’ll definitely be speaking to DP, not to set a strict deadline but just about our expectations to ensure we’re aligned :)

I have been with my fiancé 10 years this year, we get married in April (was postponed from last April due to Covid! We have welcomed a little boy in that time) We got engaged in 2018 so 6 years after being together. 2 years for you might be enough but you have to consider how he feels about it too. You can’t just force him to propose!

Lots of "just have a proper conversation" advice, as there should be, but that conversation isn't just about getting married but the timeframes that are important to you.

Fertility clock aside I'm not sure this is even a male vs female thing. I think the "18 months is more than enough to know" and "2 years is way too soon" responses have been fairly equal on this thread. The point is that there isn't a definitive, widely accepted timeframe on any of these things, so you can neither read your partner's mind nor expect them to read yours on the matter, so you just have to TALK.

Personally I find 2 years way too soon - I've got no desire to get married but 2 years into my relationship with DP, I was still hemming and hawing about any sort of long-term stuff. But I'm aware I err on the commitment-phobe side (and having never wanted children, that's just as well). Luckily he was patient and I think after about 5 years I managed to say I wanted to be with him for the foreseeable future.

@anonno1

Yes Rossnagoose. But if it’s clear a man doesn’t want to marry you, why on earth would you think he’s going to suddenly have a change if heart just because you propose to him?! It makes no sense.

There is nothing to be gained in proposing to a man who can’t even galvanise himself to propose to you because it will be like dragging a dead horse through life, frankly. If he can’t even be bothered with the basic act of proposing to the woman he supposedly wants to have his children (or maybe she already has had them) - then what can he actually be bothered to do? Why saddle yourself with such a deadweight individual? These are the women who will be on MN complaining the DH never bothers to get her a birthday gift so she has to buy it herself - this kind of thing. You reap what you sow and no point flogging a dead horse (as my mother used to say).

I don't disagree with any of that, especially the 'deadweight individuals' that do seem to predominate on those threads, but there seems to be a pervasive idea (I mean, culture-wide, not specific to these threads) that all women are on fire to get married, and all men are reluctant -- it comes up in the 'last night of freedom' imagery for stag parties, marriage as 'ball and chain' for men, whereas it's 'Special Best Day of Your Life' territory for women, single men viewed as free bachelors vs single women as tragic old maids eaten by their cats etc etc.

This POV sees it as 'natural' for women to have to (coyly) badger men into marrying them as a matter of course.

How big are big romantic proposals? What is involved? I’m imagining something like a West End musical production.

I was proposed to, as I mentioned earlier, but it was just the two of us and quite discrete.

Oh, and even if I did want to get married, the idea of a surprise proposal would be my worst nightmare. I don't like surprises and I don't like being unprepared for things. DP knows this and he knows that if he ever got down on one knee without thoroughly discussing things with me first, I'd run a mile.

But if it’s clear a man doesn’t want to marry you, why on earth would you think he’s going to suddenly have a change if heart just because you propose to him?!

Just jumping in to answer this from my perspective (although I know you didn't ask me)!

If a woman 'proposes to*' a man she wants to marry and he doesn't want to marry her, he can say yes or no and you'll have your answer. If you just "give off propose to me vibes" and then wait around for The Big Day, I personally find that quote weird.

You absolutely cannot (and should not) change anyone's mind about whether they want to be with you or marry you by proposing though; you're right. But if you have a deadline in mind, it seems bonkers to not just discuss it like adults.

As a few pps have said, proposals are fairly modern. Even Mr D'Arcy and Elizabeth Bennett just had a dour, misery Olympics, conversation and that's a classically romantic story iirc

*or just has a conversation with him and forgos any proposal from either party

The proposal is a red herring.

You have discussions in which you either agree or don’t agree that you want to get married soon.

If you agree, then ok. Either he or you proposes whatever.

If you don’t agree then you have a problem.

It’s absolutely fine to tell him that 2 years is your boundary and at the end of that either you get married or you move on.

It’s sensible at your age not to waste more than 2 years on someone who doesn’t want to marry you when it comes to it.

I do think there has to be a point where you draw the line in the sand.
It's easy to tell if he wants to marry you or not. If he makes excuses, he just doesn't want to. There's nothing wrong with that but then you have to move out and move on.

Don't settle for crumbs. Many women go on and meet someone better and look back and realise their ex wasn't all that great anyway and it was good they didn't marry them.

I believe men know very soon how they feel about someone and many will waste years of a woman's life as he enjoys the perks of getting all the benefits of marriage without having to do anything.

I believe men know very soon how they feel about someone and many will waste years of a woman's life as he enjoys the perks of getting all the benefits of marriage without having to do anything.

I agree.