To give DP a deadline for the proposal

[Teqillatey]

DP and I have been together for 18 months, lived together for a year and are both extremely happy. We’ve discussed our future a lot and both agree that marriage is important to us and something we want in our future and DP will often make references to “when we get married” and so on.

We are both in our 30s and both spent years in a bad long term relationship before we met, so I’m now at the stage where I don’t want to waste any more time and would like full commitment and to settle down. I’m of the view that 2 years together should be more than enough time to judge whether or not you want to spend the rest of your life with somebody and personally I’m not keen on waiting much longer than that for a proposal. DP’s good friend recently proposed to his partner of 1 year and DP mentioned to me how soon he felt it was, which concerns me that our expectations may not be aligned.

Would it be too pushy and wrong of me to discuss my timescales and expectations in terms of the 2 year rule or do I have to shut up and wait it out?

There is no timescale rule - couples get together when it is right for them.

Talk to him about your future.

I think this generation have been duped. They've been told that they should plough ahead with all the elements of a marriage (sex, joint income, home purchase, children, usually being primary child carer) at a cost to themselves, while simultaneously being sold the notion that marriage and a proposal is solely the domain of the men to decide if or when it takes place and we are desperate harpies if we try to control our own destiny

Totally agree

@Teqillatey

I completely appreciate that of course women can propose to their male partners and it doesn’t have to be led by the male, but we both have very traditional backgrounds and values, so DP would absolutely want to be the person to initiate any proposal and it’s a special moment id like to have the chance to experience.

It's not that special if you've forced his hand.

Tbh lots of people have been brainwashed into waiting for the special moment and social media these days has certainly made the thing worse. It totally lost its purpose. Like actually planning your future and discussing it openly with your potential lifelong partner to make sure you are on the same page and compatible. But anyway...

In your situation, with your expectations, I would either give lots of subtle hints and eventually ask when would a marriage happen for you guys in a non aggressive way. No ultimatum. Just to see his reaction.
Since it seems like you can't have an open conversation about it. You will need to find other ways to know where he stands.

Or you just openly say that YOU personally have a strong desire to be married and start a family. And see where that goes... if he is the one he will make sure you get your ring sooner rather than later!

But obviously lots of shit people out there just wasting your time talking about "when we get married" with no real intentions of doing it, but just enjoying all the benefits of living together without the commitment. And waiting for a better option.

The old fashioned proposal has no place in modern society

The point some of us older people are making is that 'old fashioned' proposals are NOT old fashioned at all! I am 60. My DH did not propose, none of friends had proposals and neither did my parents or grandparents.

Waiting around for a man to propose is an idea that comes from Downton Abbey or Instagram. It is not 'traditional'. It is also weird if you are already living with someone.

annono1 But lots of us here are saying that in our experience - from decades ago, and looking back further - it's not 'normal' for a man to propose.
It's been increasingly sold as such by Hollywood/romantic novelists/social media/the wedding industry.

In the distant past, marriages were arranged by families, with - or without - the agreement of the couple. And/or they were about wealth and power. An heiress might have many men wanting to marry her; if her family would let her, she had the power of choice over them. A rich man might have several mothers 'pushing' their daughters towards him. Or - think Pride and Pejudice - two families might have 'destined' their offspring to wed, from birth. (Modern versions of the story tend to play down just how abnormal Mr Darcy's - and Lizzie's - behaviour was.)

As a previous poster said re the 1960s, among poor/ordinary people in the past, a very large number of marriages took place because the bride was pregnant. And for centuries men and women could be fined/publicy rebuked and shamed for getting into such a situation. Marriage was the easier option.

Perhaps giving a man all the power to decide the future of a relationship is becoming a 'new normal'. I sincerely hope not.

Mumsnet misery olympics out in full force here.

It is possible to have an adult conversation about marriage, then have the joy of your partner presenting you with a lovely ring that shows that he knows you so well and a sweet proposal.

Just because you did not receive that, or told yourself you didn’t want to receive that because it was stupid and outdated- doesn’t mean that other people who would like this special moment are silly or a have a less-adult relationship compared to yours

I’m looking forward to the Valentine’s threads where the same posters bemoan a DW who does everything for her family for being sad when she doesn’t get a bouquet of flowers.

I’m kind of on the fence here…my DH proposed after about 2.5 years together - but we had had a conversation where I’d cried (not proud) and said marriage was what I wanted. He basically wasn’t in any hurry!

But he did propose, we did get married and were happy for 14 years. He later told me he was so glad we’d done it and that he’d “married the right person”.

I’m a widow now (he died aged 41). But I’d say yes again.

Suprima No, not 'misery olympics', just historical FACT.
By all means, if a couple want any kind of proposal, grand or simple , let them have one. As big, pretty, amazing as they like. Each to their own.

But surely a decision to marry should be by a couple's mutual agreement, as a way of celebrating their love. It should surely not be a source of anxiety, uncertainty and unhappiness for one partner, and a time of absolute, arbitrary power for the other.

I agree. Women have been duped over this marriage business. Men get all the advantages of marriage without any ties or financial commitments. What a con.

@Horological

The old fashioned proposal has no place in modern society

The point some of us older people are making is that 'old fashioned' proposals are NOT old fashioned at all! I am 60. My DH did not propose, none of friends had proposals and neither did my parents or grandparents.

Waiting around for a man to propose is an idea that comes from Downton Abbey or Instagram. It is not 'traditional'. It is also weird if you are already living with someone.

Yes I'm a few years older than you and it always seems really odd when a woman with a career who lives with her partner and has discussed the future need to be "surprised" with a proposal.

I knew a young man at work who was told how he was to "surprise" her. They were going on holiday to somewhere expensive, he was told the ring he needed to buy, told when he had to do the proposal and exactly where, I kid you not he had to propose on a flight of steps to a tourist place. I couldn't help thinking it was the least romantic thing I'd ever heard of.

Cuddled up on the sofa and one of us saying, "Shall we get married, I'd like kids and a life with you." and the other saying, "Great idea, when do you think would be good." seemed so much more genuine, not a Facebook moment.

@Viviennemary

I agree. Women have been duped over this marriage business. Men get all the advantages of marriage without any ties or financial commitments. What a con.

Someone posted the other day that her mum said feminism has fucked women over. I think in this respect she’s on the nail.

I knew a young man at work who was told how he was to "surprise" her. They were going on holiday to somewhere expensive, he was told the ring he needed to buy, told when he had to do the proposal and exactly where, I kid you not he had to propose on a flight of steps to a tourist place. I couldn't help thinking it was the least romantic thing I'd ever heard of.

She sure made it easy, though. He wasn't at all unclear about what she wanted.

Obviously if he wasn't happy to do it then that's another issue. But it doesn't sound as if she was at all coy about it. She was pretty open, honest and straightforward, like everyone is saying women should be.

Some men like that. They don't really know what gesture their partner wants and they don't mind being briefed, just as the woman doesn't mind doing the briefing. It may not be for everyone but if it meant they both got what they wanted, that's what matters.

@scottishnames

Suprima No, not 'misery olympics', just historical FACT. By all means, if a couple want any kind of proposal, grand or simple , let them have one. As big, pretty, amazing as they like. Each to their own.

But surely a decision to marry should be by a couple's mutual agreement, as a way of celebrating their love. It should surely not be a source of anxiety, uncertainty and unhappiness for one partner, and a time of absolute, arbitrary power for the other.

I would have @ you if I was referring to you directly.

You are completely right- it is a modern invention.

However- it does cause anxiety and sadness when some people get that modern invention and others have to cajole, beg and book their own wedding reception as to set a date. It’s hardly women taking advantage of their own destinies to beg a bloke into marry them through ‘adult discussion’ until they eventually get their shut-up-ring or to save the date.

Women have so much to lose by marrying a man. So much. If one is going to marry someone- it better be someone who bloody adores her and is a truly amazing bloke. Good blokes don’t drag their heels for 7 years before relenting.

Obviously if he wasn't happy to do it then that's another issue. But it doesn't sound as if she was at all coy about it. She was pretty open, honest and straightforward, like everyone is saying women should be.

And yet if he had dictated stuff to her, he would be deemed "controlling" and it would be a "red flag" 😂

Men get all the advantages of marriage without any ties or financial commitments

How?

Yes feminism. Get a full-time job, do all the housework and childcare.

@suprima - I'm so sorry, I didn't mean to target you, just thought your phrase was very apt and striking!

@PrincessCaspian91

Yes tell him you’re expectations, just say you would be unhappy if you got to 3 years together and he hadn’t proposed and you would feel unappreciated. I just hit 4 years with my partner and the day after our anniversary I said ‘I’m gutted you didn’t propose yesterday, 4 years takes the piss. Makes me think you don’t love me enough and I’m just convenient’. It was exactly what I felt and I prefer honesty in a relationship. Holidays and birthdays kept coming and going with no proposal whilst people who had been together half the time got married!

Saying something like that might ruin the romance/ fun of it if he feels like he’s being forced, and you might be in for an uphill battle if he’s the sort to drag his feet in relationships anyway. Mine is now planning a proposal but just confessed to me that he only want to spend £600 on a ring which I think is a very low budget, certainly wouldn’t be my dream ring and I know he could afford more. This makes me think he isn’t bothered about proposing, that he sort of resents having to buy a ring. I’m quite upset about it as I see people being surprised with beautiful proposal and rings all the time.

Jeeze, Louise.

Was he "gutted" that YOU hadn't proposed on your anniversary?
Are you spending £600 on him?
Or is it all a one-way street for princesses?

@SoupDragon

Obviously if he wasn't happy to do it then that's another issue. But it doesn't sound as if she was at all coy about it. She was pretty open, honest and straightforward, like everyone is saying women should be.

And yet if he had dictated stuff to her, he would be deemed "controlling" and it would be a "red flag" 😂

What, by asking her to marry him?

I think this generation have been duped. They've been told that they should plough ahead with all the elements of a marriage (sex, joint income, home purchase, children, usually being primary child carer) at a cost to themselves, while simultaneously being sold the notion that marriage and a proposal is solely the domain of the men to decide if or when it takes place and we are desperate harpies if we try to control our own destiny

Quite, @Drinkingallthewine
And yet here is OP, wanting to pretend that her DP came up with a "surprise" proposal all off his own bat, & seeking advice on how to twist him into it.

it’s a special moment id like to have the chance to experience..

It's a pile of airbrushed codswallop that has bugger-all to do with the quality of the man doing the proposing, or rent/mortgages, babies & sharing the money-earning/household-running drudgery of real life.
Intelligent, practical women should be focused on real life, quality men, & what marriage actually means - not the romantic nonsense & attention-seeking of an insta-worthy proposal & wedding day.

@ChargingBuck so much utter stupidity and malice in your post.

The modern relationship is definitely a one way street.
Woman cooks.
Woman cleans.
Or woman project manages man to do cooking and cleaning.
Woman works full time.
Woman organises everything.

That’s the one way street.

Wanting your bloke to do something nice for you is not being a princess. I imagine the poster you leapt on does quite enough.

@ChargingBuck

I didn’t want to propose to him as I like the tradition. I financially supported him for over a year in the pandemic (paying all our mortgage and bills) and have bought him some very expensive gifts for birthdays and Christmas so it’s not unbalanced

I am 48 years old and in my entire life, I am not aware of one woman who proposed to her husband. Nor am I aware of any OTT Instagram-orientated proposals either (if this is a thing now, thank god I missed that).

On MN, it’s presented as a choice between a totally OTT proposal, or ‘sit him down and have a conversation.’

In the real world, most men just propose in a resonantly privately and in a normal way and he either gives her a ring or they go and choose one together. Then they let people know they are engaged. Hardly a shocker. It has nothing to do with Disney or Instagram or Downton Abbey or Facebook . It’s just normal life.

Why everyone on MN has to be so dour, I’ll never understand. It’s really is the misery Olympics on here sometimes.