Not all men..

[Jenna19871]

Spoke to DH about this tonight and he said ‘it’s not all men though is it?’

He’s right. It’s not all men. But I have experienced so much shit that wouldn’t be accepted nowadays (not tragic shit but just not acceptable)

At 19 my drink was drugged with rohypnol in the local night club, thankfully I didn’t drink it as it tasted ‘sour’. It was caught on CCTV. The man was banned for 2 weeks. 2 weeks!!!

I’ve taken the tube and had men put their hands on my butt/legs etc with me trying to move away. I didn’t shout, I should have!

None of these are awful stories but it just goes to show that when people say it’s not all men...but it is most women.

probably would even though it might not safe and I would definitely call the police.

right so you as a man would step in because your a dog (lets change it for simplicity) you see a cat attacking a dog, as a dog you step in because you know you are bigger and stronger then the cat and can rip its throat out.

but upon seeing a dog attacking a cat you think differently because that dog is the same size or bigger then you, it may have attack training.

do you see the point now? you might step in if you think your be safe from harm, but you will ignore the attack if you think your safety is in danger and this is the fundamental point.

you as a man do not expect a woman to attack and kill you, its extremely rare, you do not expect them to be carrying a weapon but you do expect it of a man because men = violent.

so thats a societal problem, it is all men because all men have sat back and let us get to a point where they are frightened to step in and intervene with their brothers out of fear because male violence has been ignored for so long it is endemic or at least the fear of it is and that allows the bastards a free pass to do what they want while you exercise your cognitive dissonance and never speak up or contact your MP about the elephant in the room.

Either way your still expecting me to do something based on the fact that I'm male

Yes, I'm expecting you to be more willing than a woman to challenge male violence and misogyny. Because the risk to you is less than the risk of a woman doing the same thing.

The impact would also be greater if men were 'expected to do something'.

For example it's more likely that if a blokes told their mate to sod off home (and actually followed through by ignoring him until he did so) when he was being a sexist prick, telling rape 'jokes' or not taking no for an answer (dressed up as still chatting her up when she's clearly not into it) with a woman in a club for example, that it would have FAR more impact on said sexist prick than dozens of women he doesn't know telling him he's being a sexist prick.

@Ohmy2022 it’s men like you that are the problem. The NotAllMenz crowd do my head in.

@cuno

Good to see you've resorted to name calling.
And regardless of what you think it's not a "gotcha"

My moral compass is perfectly fine I've stepped in on many situations when needed to help woman and men. I've called out racism from managers in the works and not behind there back to hr to there face .

I'm not responsible for what people do in their whatsapp groups, I'm not in any like that .

I've never stepped foot in strip club either and I feel no inclination to do so . I'm not responsible for those that do.

And I'm not responsible the action of bad men . But that hasn't stopped me intervening. Sorry if that's pathetic

You will never hold the majority of any other group to be accountable for stopping the bad few in that group.

Unfortunately it's more just a few bad men. All the statistics suggest that it's the majority of men not a small minority.

[quote KeepingAnOpenMind]@Ohmy2022 it’s men like you that are the problem. The NotAllMenz crowd do my head in.[/quote]
I've never said that. Other posters on here have .

I simply dared to disagree that it was always men although it mostly is just not always

@SpinsForGin

You will never hold the majority of any other group to be accountable for stopping the bad few in that group.

Unfortunately it's more just a few bad men. All the statistics suggest that it's the majority of men not a small minority.

I guess that make me a minority then

[quote Ohmy2022]@cuno

Good to see you've resorted to name calling.
And regardless of what you think it's not a "gotcha"

My moral compass is perfectly fine I've stepped in on many situations when needed to help woman and men. I've called out racism from managers in the works and not behind there back to hr to there face .

I'm not responsible for what people do in their whatsapp groups, I'm not in any like that .

I've never stepped foot in strip club either and I feel no inclination to do so . I'm not responsible for those that do.

And I'm not responsible the action of bad men . But that hasn't stopped me intervening. Sorry if that's pathetic[/quote]
It has stopped you intervening though - you’re not doing anything about it. It is pathetic, especially when you’re on here telling us off.

I guess that make me a minority then

Possibly. Only you know that for sure.

@Pumperthepumper

I've said many times ive intervened . So how how are saying I havent ???

I've not told any off. I simply put my views across on a public forum

[quote Ohmy2022]@Pumperthepumper

I've said many times ive intervened . So how how are saying I havent ???

I've not told any off. I simply put my views across on a public forum[/quote]
Here: I'm not in any like that and I'm not responsible for those that do and I'm not responsible the action of bad men.

Absolutely washing your hands of it while expecting women to do more.

[quote Ohmy2022]@cuno

Good to see you've resorted to name calling.
And regardless of what you think it's not a "gotcha"

My moral compass is perfectly fine I've stepped in on many situations when needed to help woman and men. I've called out racism from managers in the works and not behind there back to hr to there face .

I'm not responsible for what people do in their whatsapp groups, I'm not in any like that .

I've never stepped foot in strip club either and I feel no inclination to do so . I'm not responsible for those that do.

And I'm not responsible the action of bad men . But that hasn't stopped me intervening. Sorry if that's pathetic[/quote]
But you are pathetic. You've made an account on mumsnet to have a pop at us over a very real fear backed by statistics rather than doing anything constructive.

Any man who is more offended about women complaining about misogyny and men abusing us, than the men raping and abusing us, is pathetic. And I will stand by that statement until I die. It's not name calling, is it? Anything to paint us as the big bad evil women, I suppose.

[quote youvegottenminuteslynn]@VelvetChairGirl

Part of the reason that I would be less likely to physically step in between a female aggressor and a male victim is that a male victim is physically more able to defend himself than I am to defend him.

I would still call the police and knowing myself I probably would still stop in without thinking, but I would also think it more likely a man would be physically more able to defend himself than I would be able to help him.

Whereas a female victim is already at a disadvantage (hugely) so I would risk assess and feel I could make a difference to her safety.

You dont know me or my height or my build or strength.

It is statistically vanishingly unlikely that a woman can throw a punch with more force than you. Your male body has gone through puberty which has given you a physical advantage (muscle mass, lung capacity etc) over the female bodies. To argue otherwise is ridiculous, it is simple biology. There are always outliers but these are statistically incredibly rare. The average man is stronger and faster than the average woman. More able to physically attack, physically defend and to successfully run away.

Or I could 6ft,18st good strength .and now the risk of violence is because of my size and build has dramatically gone up because every idiot wants to beat the big guy.

My ex is 6'7" and I know this is true. I also know that he is more able to defend himself against the risk of violence he experiences due to his size than almost any woman is able to defend herself against the risk of violence she experiences due to her sex.

I could be 5'6 8st and weak as as kitten and your still expecting me to stop the actions of others and the threat to me is the same as you

The threat is entirely different because the risks to me also include sexual assault, sex based verbal abuse and sex based threats. I am an average, height average weight woman. I am statistically weaker than a thin, short man who has had the physical benefits of male puberty. [/quote]
@Ohmy2022

I didn't name call you when I responded to your points (in bold here within the post) but you haven't responded to me so I'm not sure if you read through them?

I tagged the wrong poster at the start but bolded your statements so would be interested if you have thoughts on what I've said/

Here's the thing. It suits men and therefore society and even so women to keep the focus on "not all men".

That will always be the case unless some form of catastrophic (and yes it needs to be catastrophic) change happens, which is unlikely.

Debating this is pointless because it's the official rhetoric. There's a reason why it's always used as a derail and why it's so efficient.

I simply dared to disagree that it was always men although it mostly is just not always.

Ah, here it is: the completely beside-the-point defence 'But women do it too ...' And this is relevant because?

Given we (women) are the ones who spend our lives risk-assessing and adjusting our behaviour because of the threat posed by men, you're not telling anyone here something they don't already know.

The above pointless disclaimer is transparently obvious as the straw man it is.

Can I ask what Women consider to be unreasonable attention that require Men to intervene?

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

I believe this is a very similar, if not identical message. Allegedly coined by Eldridge Cleaver, a Black Panther activist.

Not much change since that quote as we have the, "but all lives matter" brigade. I agree with a previous poster who said this is the equivalent of, "but NAMALT".

Neither wish to do a thing but carry on as they were as it's the path of least resistance. However they'll all claim to be 'the good guys'. Waste of space, the lot of them IMO.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks. Whataboutism at its best. Like, "but men get raped too"

@Youarefakenews

Can I ask what Women consider to be unreasonable attention that require Men to intervene?

What would you not like a man to do to you?

Pumper, Can you put down in words what you think is unreasonable behaviour from a man. Educate us.

What a curious hill so men choose to die on "women can be nasty too -- alright I'll concede that women aren't killing 2 men a week but boy oh boy there are some nasty mean women out there"

@Youarefakenews

Pumper, Can you put down in words what you think is unreasonable behaviour from a man. Educate us.

Do you lack imagination?

@Youarefakenews - would you go onto a black forum and ask them to 'educate me about what bits of racism is unreasonable'?