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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Not all men..

479 replies

Jenna19871 · 05/02/2022 23:18

Spoke to DH about this tonight and he said ‘it’s not all men though is it?’

He’s right. It’s not all men. But I have experienced so much shit that wouldn’t be accepted nowadays (not tragic shit but just not acceptable)

At 19 my drink was drugged with rohypnol in the local night club, thankfully I didn’t drink it as it tasted ‘sour’. It was caught on CCTV. The man was banned for 2 weeks. 2 weeks!!!

I’ve taken the tube and had men put their hands on my butt/legs etc with me trying to move away. I didn’t shout, I should have!

None of these are awful stories but it just goes to show that when people say it’s not all men...but it is most women.

OP posts:
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Pumperthepumper · 12/02/2022 11:56

@Random65

I didn't say blame the mums. I said blame families and community. I am a single father to two boys. It's my responsibility to raise them in an environment where those views aren't perpetuated.

So you need to teach them to listen to women. You need to teach them that saying ‘not all men boo boo’ is a pathetic, unhelpful response.

Ohmy2022 · 12/02/2022 12:01

I remember doing a 1st aid course years ago with a colleague. 15year age gap between us. When we were going through the recovery position and we were taught to pat pockets down incase theres anything sharp. While I was on my side my colleague was patting down my back pockets and I definitely felt my bum cheek get squeezed

Gardeningcreature · 12/02/2022 12:22

In his younger days dh once intervened to stop a man attacking a woman down the side of a pub. He said the man was attacking her, had her by the throat and by chance my dh happened upon the scene. Luckily he was a black belt in martial arts. He has never gone into details but said that after he hit this bloke he then escourted the woman to safety. The man didn’t get back up. Dh left the bastard there. I know it has affected dh.

cuno · 12/02/2022 12:22

@Ohmy2022

I remember doing a 1st aid course years ago with a colleague. 15year age gap between us. When we were going through the recovery position and we were taught to pat pockets down incase theres anything sharp. While I was on my side my colleague was patting down my back pockets and I definitely felt my bum cheek get squeezed
Weirdly (or not so weirdly) the exact thing happened to me with a male colleague on a first aid course. Must be common for them to strike when practising the recovery position. I do hope they show more basic respect to a woman they may have to administer first aid to, although probably not.
youvegottenminuteslynn · 12/02/2022 12:35

Fully appreciate that me being a larger than average bloke is in a very different situation to a less physically strong woman, so not trying to equate my experiences.

Eh? That's literally what you did.

I completely understand the position women are in when it comes to this issue.

You really, really don't.

Ohmy2022 · 12/02/2022 12:36

@cuno

I'm male,my colleague is a female

youvegottenminuteslynn · 12/02/2022 12:37

And @Random65, as another poster excellently explained to you, "Women don't say all men though, women say 'men abuse women' and then men say 'not all men abuse women' even though no one ever said it was all men who do it."

You make yourself the victim in this when you say that the argument women are making is unfair on you and other 'good guys'. But a genuinely good guy wouldn't do that. It's something you really need to work on if you want to be a true ally to women and girls.

youvegottenminuteslynn · 12/02/2022 12:43

I don't hang out with assholes, or go places I'm likely to encounter them.

Isn't it strange how us women generally try not to do these things either and yet 98-99% of us (varying studies) have been victims of sexual harassment therefore witnessed the behaviour you claim not to see?

Doesn't that tell you that (presuming you're being honest about not seeing it) that you don't see it because it's not happening to you / it's done in a way you don't notice / it's done in places you aren't looking?

Your presumption that if you don't see something (the fact that women are harassed even in, gasp, middle class places every day) it doesn't happen is completely dismissive of what women are telling you on here. Do you think we are making it up?

Oh and for the record, when I waitressed in my teams, the posher the place I worked the more likely I was to be harassed by wankers who saw me not only as a body rather than a person but also someone beneath them class wise. They all thought it was jolly good banter and hilarious, that I was being boring and no fun if I welled up or looked frightened rather than forcing a smile as they made disgusting comments or touched me, whether in their 20s or 70s. So you should have a think about your classist assumptions.

youvegottenminuteslynn · 12/02/2022 12:46

@Lifeisforliving1

Serious question. If all the men in the world started challenging their mates and 9 out of 10 were now completely amazing men, wouldn't you still be wary of the 1. Therefore, although education was done I'd personally still be wary. 100% is never going to be achieved.
Yes we would still be wary but if this happened, many less of us would be assaulted, harassed and raped. Which I would say is a win. Wouldn't you?

Do we say we shouldn't bother funding cancer research as we'll never find a 100% effective cure for all cancers?

youvegottenminuteslynn · 12/02/2022 12:50

@Random65

Lol, what? It doesn't bother me, I was just pointing out why the message won't go over well. I'm not telling any woman to do anything. Just pointing out that there are better ways to go about the way you say things. The sex with power? Men will always be physically stronger. What are you expecting men to do? Cut their arms off?

Aaaaand there we are. He shows his true colours unmistakably. Well done pal.

Pumperthepumper · 12/02/2022 13:15

[quote Ohmy2022]@cuno

I'm male,my colleague is a female[/quote]
So?

Ohmy2022 · 12/02/2022 13:19

@Pumperthepumper

so?

Nothing . Just correcting cuno who assumed I was a female.Smile

Pumperthepumper · 12/02/2022 13:22

[quote Ohmy2022]@Pumperthepumper

so?

Nothing . Just correcting cuno who assumed I was a female.Smile[/quote]
Weirdly (or not so weirdly) the exact thing happened to me with a male colleague on a first aid course. Must be common for them to strike when practising the recovery position. I do hope they show more basic respect to a woman they may have to administer first aid to, although probably not.

No they didn’t. In fact, they specified it was a male colleague who did it to them.

Ohmy2022 · 12/02/2022 13:33

@Pumperthepumper

Must be common for them to strike when practising the recovery position

As she was saying she experienced the same thing as me and used term "them" it came across to me that she thought I was female and the groper was male

Pumperthepumper · 12/02/2022 13:37

[quote Ohmy2022]@Pumperthepumper

Must be common for them to strike when practising the recovery position

As she was saying she experienced the same thing as me and used term "them" it came across to me that she thought I was female and the groper was male[/quote]
I think that’s because you were hoping for a gotcha moment; the them could be male or female, except that poster specified the sex of their attacker. It’s interesting that you assumed the groper to be male in all circumstances.

5128gap · 12/02/2022 13:39

[quote Ohmy2022]@cuno

I'm male,my colleague is a female[/quote]
Drum roll!!!
If this is the case, its very unusual. Women who touch men inappropriately tend to do so as what they think is a joke, playing to an audience, making their friends laugh at turning the tables. Obviously it's entirely wrong, but very rarely is it sexually motivated or surreptitious. I'm very surprised at the idea of a woman taking the opportunity to have a sly grope under cover of first aid training. But as you point out, she was 15 years older!!! And we all know that older women are desperate and prey on young men all the time.Hmm

Ohmy2022 · 12/02/2022 13:42

@5128gap

Sounds like you calling me a lier

Pumperthepumper · 12/02/2022 13:45

[quote Ohmy2022]@5128gap

Sounds like you calling me a lier[/quote]
No, not a liar, but nobody in my family or friends would ever behave like this and if they did they would be cast out and I’ve never seen a woman display inappropriate behaviour so it’s probably a working class thing and maybe you should hang out in nicer places and not all women do that and why should other women take responsibility for that one woman and so on and so on.

5128gap · 12/02/2022 13:49

[quote Ohmy2022]@5128gap

Sounds like you calling me a lier[/quote]
I'm saying it's very unusual. Which is an entirely valid response to make to a post from a man recounting his experience of inappropriate touching, on a thread about men harassing women. I'm also noting the fact that you thought her age was relevant, and the link to a common stereotype about older women.

Ohmy2022 · 12/02/2022 13:49

@Pumperthepumper

I dont believe that was directed at you.

Pumperthepumper · 12/02/2022 13:51

[quote Ohmy2022]@Pumperthepumper

I dont believe that was directed at you.[/quote]
So?

Ohmy2022 · 12/02/2022 13:53

@5128gap

Sorry I've seen many,many posts on here explaining how the men that are being inappropriate are older . I didnt realise is was a one way street. My apologies

cuno · 12/02/2022 14:08

[quote Ohmy2022]@Pumperthepumper

so?

Nothing . Just correcting cuno who assumed I was a female.Smile[/quote]
I never said you were female. But you've made your intentions of coming on a thread about men's abuse of women (on a forum called mumsnet nonetheless), and making a statement of something that happened to you while omitting any mention of you and your attacker's sex, perfectly clear. Smile

It certainly wasn't to raise awareness of the plight of men otherwise you would have pointed out your sex in the first place.
And then you outed your intentions by saying I assumed your sex.

It was, as a PP put it, a "gotcha".
And it didn't work.

5128gap · 12/02/2022 14:10

[quote Ohmy2022]@5128gap

Sorry I've seen many,many posts on here explaining how the men that are being inappropriate are older . I didnt realise is was a one way street. My apologies[/quote]
That doesn't explain why you thought it was relevant though.

cuno · 12/02/2022 14:13

I find it interesting how men always use their negative experiences of women being abusers as a tool to silence and trip up women whenever women talk about their experiences of being abused by men.

But then I don't see them starting threads or making much noise at all really about their plight outside of this.