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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Taking older son into the ladies?

358 replies

Chichimcgee · 05/02/2022 16:14

He’s severely autistic, incontinent, anxious etc hes 12 but looks a lot older

There’s been two occasions where he’s gone into the men’s loos that ended up with me asking a random man to check they were empty and keep guard so I could sort my son out. We have a disability key and use that when we can but sometimes there’s not a disabled toilet.

I know he looks like teenager and it’s not nice for women using the loo and I do try to explain but there’s been a couple of toilet emergencies recently where I’ve been shouted at because he’s in the ladies with me. But I can’t go into the men’s?
WWYD?

OP posts:
Chichimcgee · 05/02/2022 21:30

@greenlynx it’s not very often thankfully. We’ve had to use the ladies a few times, this was the first time we’ve had any issues but he’s a lot older now hence why I reached out.

OP posts:
Mummadeze · 05/02/2022 21:36

I don’t understand why he can’t go into the women’s with you. Women use cubicles! The other bit is just for washing hands and checking make up and hair so doesn’t even need to be private. Of course you can’t go into the men’s if there are urinals in there. Just grow a thick skin and tell arsey women to mind their own businesses!

Chichimcgee · 05/02/2022 21:41

Just grow a thick skin I could do with doing that in pretty much every aspect of my life to be honest!

OP posts:
Etak123 · 05/02/2022 21:43

@liveforsummer

If you go into the men’s you’re likely to see men using urinals ( which they may object to)

So mens feelings need to be considered over women's. Got it!

I think the point is that some men will have their genitals on show where as women will be in a cubicle so it’s more appropriate for the child anyway
Teawaster · 05/02/2022 21:52

I think it's perfectly ok to have your DS use the ladies . No way would I go into the mens toilets and embarrass them by having me watch them at the urinals or embarrass myself .Your DS is a child , there are cubicles in the ladies . I understand that some young girls may feel somewhat uncomfortable with this but your DS will be with you in a cubicle

DiddyHeck · 05/02/2022 21:56

@greenlynx

I’m surprised that you are coming across places where disabled toilet is not available. My DD has disability and needs help at the toilet in certain situations. Sometimes disabled toilet is in different location then other toilets e.g on the ground floor but in public places there are always a disabled toilet. I came across small cafes a couple of time which had only one biggish but still not accessible enough cubicle but museums, libraries etc always get an accessible toilet. To be honest it’s the first thing I check when planning an outing, we never go to places where toilets are not immediately available e.g we wouldn’t go to the beach without toilets near by or for a walk in the woods or to a cafe without a toilet. I would understand you and him being in the lady’s together. DD would be upset if she’s in the toilet without me.
but museums, libraries etc always get an accessible toilet.

There are plenty of tiny museums that don't have accessible toilets because they're hundreds of years old and it's just not possible to accommodate them.

Motorina · 05/02/2022 22:29

I just wanted to throw this in the mix. This is not a comment on the OP's son in particular, who is in any event too young for this to be relevant, but on the broader picture. I'm trying to phrase this as sensitively as I can.

Most men are not sexual predators. Most men would pose no threat to anyone in the ladies toilet. But a small number are and do.

In the same way, most adults with conditions that impact on their ability to live independently are not sexual predators. Most pose no threat to anyone in the ladies.

But a small number do.

That may be for just the same reasons that some other men are at threat. Or it may be because their condition impacts on their ability to understand that some activities are private, and with consent only.

As an example, one teenager I knew had to move from a female optician to a male one because, once the hormones kicked in, he could not understand that he should not masturbate through the sight check. Why not, after all - it felt nice. Or that he shouldn't grab things he found appealing. He could not see a female doctor for the same reason.

Another couldn't be around a particular, common, female clothing item, because it lead to immediate arousal which he did not understand should not be immediately responded to.

Clearly this is a very difficult area, particularly as it is certainly not the individual's fault that they behave this way. It's part of the broader picture of their complex needs.

But some posts here have been very much, 'Of course he can go in the ladies once he's grown up - he's disabled, he's not a threat'. And, very sadly, that's not always the case. Not even with one to one support, as the OP is providing.

I have no answers. There should be better disabled toilet access so everyone's rights are protected. I appreciate that isn't always the case, which is wrong. I've advocated hard for a 'changing places' toilet in my work place, for just this reason. But I just wanted to flag up that it's an oversimplification to say that someone who has significant needs is therefore not a threat. They're probably not a threat, because most people aren't. But the two groups aren't mutually exclusive.

OP, given the places without disabled loos are also likely to be the ones who don't have large rooms with many cubicles, is one solution for you to ask a staff member to guard to the door to the ladies whilst you and he use it? So you have in effect private usage for the time you're there? Or at least that staff member could let women queueing know you and he were in there, so they could make their own decision on whether they were happy to enter.

mumwon · 05/02/2022 22:39

there was an argument on mn earlier where a mn who had a wheelchair objected to other people using accessible toilets - as was explained to her their is a difference between accessible (often used for mums feeding, etc & individuals may have an invisible disability or urgent need) & disabled - & how do you define a disability(aka invisible urgent need et al)?
I would also suggest this young man may need the loo urgently (difficulty in communication please note) & if the disabled loo is on the ground floor (if there is one & its not out of order) & you are on the top...
lets suppose op has to take him (or herself) somewhere, an appointment or he needs shoes say or anything really. I got caught out (as i mentioned earlier)because the place I usually go to (service station) had shut their loos. This can happen more than people realize. Some place, cafes, deliberately shut their loos because they didn't want to do so much cleaning! (this happened to me)
We.need.more.toilets.accessible.ones.especially.
Couldn't mn organise some sort of petition?

Ihaveaskedyouthrice · 05/02/2022 22:53

I have a 9 year old son with additional needs and I wouldn't think twice about bringing him to the ladies toilets if it was needed. I would honestly be stunned if someone shouted at me because of it.

HeyThereDelilah1 · 05/02/2022 22:56

Absurd that people are telling you to use the men’s toilets if there isn’t a disabled one available - any woman who thinks her needs trump that of a disabled child and his mother need to take a good, hard look at themselves. It’s your child who is vulnerable in this situation and therefore takes priority - I’d honestly tell them where to go. I’m really sorry you’re in this situation, appalling there’s not disabled toilets available to you. It’s not your job to make everyone else happy, just try and concentrate on the needs of yourself and your son - easier said than done I know!

bythere · 05/02/2022 23:16

It should always go by the toilet of the parent's sex. The child in the other toilet is far less of an issue than the adult.

TheYearOfSmallThings · 05/02/2022 23:41

I used to take DS into the men's when he was beyond toddler stage.

I don't think that was appropriate on your part. It would be much less eccentric and intrusive to bring a 4 or 5 year old boy into the Ladies'.

NewbieSM · 06/02/2022 00:23

OP you are doing the right thing the fact that there are not always disabled toilets available means you have no other choice. By using the ladies and taking the steps you already do, no one with a conscience is going to have a problem with it. A disabled teen boy and his mum are hardly a threat to anyone and all the posters bleating about their delicate female sensibilities not being respected can frankly fuck off. Was walking past your son in the toilet so distressing for this woman? Of course not. It's not an ideal situation for anyone, most of all your son, but guess what? Life is full of unideal situations and living in society means having to navigate through those which NT women can manage far better than your son.

HiJenny35 · 06/02/2022 00:41

Op you are doing the right thing. Absolutely ridiculous to compare it to you going into the men's, women use cubicles men have their penis out at the urinal obviously you shouldn't be in the men's. I work with sen pupils up to 25, several are blind, deaf or both and have additional needs, they cannot toilet independently, often the disabled toilet is out of order, occupied or non existent, we take them into the women's, no choice, I'll apologise if anyone is in there but honestly it's tough, sorry but their need to toilet comes before making someone uncomfortable, they have a difficult enough life I'm not going to make them wet themselves because their isn't a disabled toilet. This is one of the main reasons why I love places with unisex toilets.

Chichimcgee · 06/02/2022 00:51

Thank you ♥️

OP posts:
GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 06/02/2022 00:55

This just shows there should be far more and better accessible facilities. I know this is no help in the immediate term but this is what is needed.

OP, given the places without disabled loos are also likely to be the ones who don't have large rooms with many cubicles, is one solution for you to ask a staff member to guard to the door to the ladies whilst you and he use it? So you have in effect private usage for the time you're there? Or at least that staff member could let women queueing know you and he were in there, so they could make their own decision on whether they were happy to enter.

^^
This but they block of the men’s toilet for your sons exclusive use, with you assisting, and explain to the men queuing what is going on. Your son is after all male, and with the men waiting outside there’s no need to feel uncomfortable about you being in there.

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 06/02/2022 00:58

Also would be so much easier if there were just all individual cubicles, containing a sink and sanitary bin, directly of the main corridor. No more urinals taking up space that could be repurposed for everyone’s benefit, no more semi private areas for people to feel uncomfortable in.

Wingedharpy · 06/02/2022 01:01

Oh aye.
And the poor lad will have wet himself by the time OP has trecked round the place trying to find someone to "stand guard".
Carry on dealing with this as you are OP.
You're doing a great job in less than great circumstances.

zoeFromCity · 06/02/2022 01:02

I'm not sure, why men using urinals, and potentially feeling inconvenienced should make so big difference. Men use urinals because they don't mind being seen peeing. Men pee outside without much worrying. And if their peer is coming for toilet with extra support, it is quite clear that the support needs to be there.

And, whole I see your issues, I don't feel like having a right to give women's toilet away.

I suppose that while the son is still child looking, it is adult&child situation, so adult leads. With DS getting older, at some moment it will turn into two adults. If he still needs help, I'd think about some "personal care" sign for accompanying adult and take him to men's, as a level of distress adult woman cause to men and adult man cause to women differs.

MobMoll · 06/02/2022 01:14

As the mother of a severely autistic child my responsibility and top priority is to my son, not random strangers. This means if some busy body gets bent out of shape because we use a disabled parking pass too bad. It also means if I have to take him into a ladies toilet when there’s no other choice well- too bad. I have no problem saying “ sorry, we don’t have other options. He’s severely autistic “ but that’s as far as it goes.
My son is 5, he’s the size of an 8 year old due to a genetic disorder that causes overgrowth. He’s also intellectually delayed and non verbal. He’s certainly not interested in checking out women in public loos. He’s also not the responsibility of kind random men trying to use a public toilet.

DaisyDreaming · 06/02/2022 01:18

As a disabled woman with a sometimes male carer I prefer using the womens in toilets are busy as I think there’s less visible in them due to lack of urinals. If it was a very quiet place and a woman might think she was alone with a man then I would opt to use the male toilets. I hate going to places that don’t have a disabled cubical separate to the gender ones

5zeds · 06/02/2022 01:24

I would go into the gents with him rather than the ladies and announce my presence before I walked in. (I have a similar but older ds)

Out of interest how do you go to the toilet when out and about@Chichimcgee ?

Eightiesfan · 06/02/2022 01:26

If it was me, I’d take him into the ladies with me. I would not want to take him into the men’s nor would I be happy with him going in on his own.

Chichimcgee · 06/02/2022 01:34

@5zeds if I go toilet before we go out I’m ok, no bladder issues or anything! If DS needs the loo (and just for the billionth time we do use disabled loos when available) I might take the opportunity to go whilst he’s in the cubicle with me.

I think some days - if everything is going well and he has his support dog I could trust him to stand outside and wait for me if I needed to go but I honestly don’t think I’d risk it even for a few minutes and I’ve never been caught short thankfully!

We’ve had to move away urgently and I’m sure in time I’ll learn where the disabled loos are here so at least we can go into town and not worry Smile

OP posts:
MobMoll · 06/02/2022 01:35

Absolutely do not go in the gents with him! Why is it okay to make a bunch of men and your self feel uncomfortable rather then some women???
Also for those stating severe ASD is an invisible disability you are incorrect. What part of my sons flapping, stimming, moaning, no eye contact and head banging is invisible?

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