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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Taking older son into the ladies?

358 replies

Chichimcgee · 05/02/2022 16:14

He’s severely autistic, incontinent, anxious etc hes 12 but looks a lot older

There’s been two occasions where he’s gone into the men’s loos that ended up with me asking a random man to check they were empty and keep guard so I could sort my son out. We have a disability key and use that when we can but sometimes there’s not a disabled toilet.

I know he looks like teenager and it’s not nice for women using the loo and I do try to explain but there’s been a couple of toilet emergencies recently where I’ve been shouted at because he’s in the ladies with me. But I can’t go into the men’s?
WWYD?

OP posts:
KitBumbleB · 05/02/2022 20:48

I personally wouldn't mind, I would assume he had additional needs, however I dont speak for all women.

I know for a fact my 80+ year old gran would be highly uncomfortable with a young man in the ladies toilets, for generational, cultural, and religious reasons.

My pre-teen daughter would also be very uncomfortable with it, both would feel obligated to be accommodating.

Without being rude, if your son is incontinent, does he wear adult nappies? I understand that would potentially be highly distressing for him, its really a lose / lose situation

grey12 · 05/02/2022 20:49

@museumum

There should always be some kind of accessible loo. It is not acceptable if there is not.
A lot of times disabled toilets are inside the women's/men's section 🤷🏻‍♀️

I agree with PP, you should go to the women's. I'd be more than understanding. The sunflower lanyard may be a good idea.

crazymomma93 · 05/02/2022 20:51

It should 100% be taken into gender of adult responsible. I remember walking around and around a Gents, this poor bloke stood there with his willy out 😳

Original poster
Chichimcgee · 05/02/2022 20:53

He’s been out of nappies since 10 on the advice of his doctor, I think as they hope he will gradually gain control and nappies would hinder that? Like potty training I suppose. we have good days and bad days depending on how his meds, diet and anxiety effect him.
He’s been admitted to hospital because of it, has monthly x-rays, has had surgery.
Their main concern is his bowel incontinence as it’s more distressing for him than bladder incontinence which he’s getting better with. He’s due more surgery for a stoma which sounds like a solution but I don’t have experience on how easy it would be to deal with when out and about.

I really hope in time he can use the men’s room or hold it until we find a suitable toilet but I don’t have a crystal ball and am aware he’s getting a lot older now.

OP posts:
mumwon · 05/02/2022 20:56

@Volhhg & getting paid carers is so easy especially post covid
What we need & would solve all these issues is
more toilets
more assessible toilets especially changing spaces type & they should be open 7 days a week for long hours & clean (with loo paper!) I was recently traveling on a Sunday evening & needed a loo - we had to go off route to find one... so its a very sore point for me & it focuses my attention to others who have problems - Loos are vitally important & free access is essential &,dare I say it?- a human right!

Chasingaftermidnight · 05/02/2022 20:56

I can think of at least 5 places I regularly go that don’t have disabled loos. I’m surprised some people find this so hard to believe. Maybe it’s more common in historic towns and cities where buildings are smaller etc. But I certainly don’t doubt that the OP faces this problem fairly regularly.

Flickflak · 05/02/2022 20:57

This reply has been withdrawn

Message from MNHQ: This post has been withdrawn

eejervis · 05/02/2022 20:59

@EveryFlightBeginsWithAFall

So hang on, you think it would be unacceptable for your boys to encounter an adult woman in the men's, but it's ok for a girl to encounter a teenage boy in the ladies? Please explain that logic to me.

The OP has also said that she intends to use the ladies if necessary once he's an adult...is it OK when he's 30 and they're out together?

Original poster
Chichimcgee · 05/02/2022 21:01

@eejervis you’re very happy to slate me but haven’t actually offered any advice other than not to go anywhere.

If your daughter was in the same situation as my son and with her dad would you tell him to just let her wet and soil herself and walk home like that or would you tell him to just take her to the men’s?

OP posts:
godmum56 · 05/02/2022 21:01

[quote Franklydear]@Chichimcgee similar situation, 11 year old autistic boy, I was getting looks in the ladies, so I asked the council for a radar key for the disabled toilets, also helps with no queueing, less noises and bigger space than a cubicle, win win really[/quote]
just for info, ANYBODY can now buy a RADAR key. Amazon sell them but loads of other places do as well, just google

Captainj1 · 05/02/2022 21:02

I would take him into the womens with you no problem. But I equally wouldn’t be bothered about a man using the womens toilets as long as he was using them as intended, shut the door of the cubicle behind him and left things clean 🤷‍♀️

paname · 05/02/2022 21:03

It's fine OP. Just explain if challenged. 99% of women would not give a difference if your disabled teen boy is in the womens with you. It's not like he's in there on his own. And the U.K. is a disgrace in that disabled toilets aren't required.

IrishMama2015 · 05/02/2022 21:04

I think the replies on this thread very clearly show who has and has not dealt with someone they love being ND or having additional needs. OP you sound like a kind loving Mom, I'm sorry you're currently having a hard time and I'm sorry people have been nasty in the past.
My uncle was blind and ND. My mom was his guardian. He needed assistance at the toilet all his life. When there was no disabled toilets available she would have to take him to men's and there were many times they were verbally attacked and put in vulnerable situations.
I hope you meet more kindness than ignorance in future ❤️

godmum56 · 05/02/2022 21:05

@Chichimcgee

He’s been out of nappies since 10 on the advice of his doctor, I think as they hope he will gradually gain control and nappies would hinder that? Like potty training I suppose. we have good days and bad days depending on how his meds, diet and anxiety effect him. He’s been admitted to hospital because of it, has monthly x-rays, has had surgery. Their main concern is his bowel incontinence as it’s more distressing for him than bladder incontinence which he’s getting better with. He’s due more surgery for a stoma which sounds like a solution but I don’t have experience on how easy it would be to deal with when out and about.

I really hope in time he can use the men’s room or hold it until we find a suitable toilet but I don’t have a crystal ball and am aware he’s getting a lot older now.

I know a bit about stomas and once it settles down you get to know how a particular one will function then they can work well. The big hook is that diet has to be really carefully managed and leakage can be an issue at first. There is a good stoma group on facebook...sorry I can't remember the name of it, it was a while ago and I no longer work in the NHS
Motorina · 05/02/2022 21:06

I'm going to stick my head above the parapet and say, whilst I wouldn't be worried by his presence at the age he is now, in a year or twos time I would find it difficult.

The difference for me would be once his voice had broken. I'm assuming here he's verbal! If so, I would find hearing an apparently adult male voice from the adjacent cubicle really scary, particularly because it of course wouldn't be obvious from voice alone that he had a disability. I would feel vulnerable and threatened.

I appreciate you're between a rock and a hard place. It is of course important that your son lives the fullest life he can, which requires safe toilet access. But safe and fear-free toilet access is important for women, too, some of whom are also vulnerable or have prior reason to be scared of men in their spaces.

I have no easy answers, I'm afraid. But you asked the question so I wanted to give an honest answer on how this would make me feel.

mumwon · 05/02/2022 21:07

@eejervis mens toilets have urinals men openly with their whatsits on display not private cubicles with doors as in women's loos AS PP HAS ALREADY SAID!!!! I discussed this with dh & he agrees that he would find it embarrassing if a woman came in & many men would find it disconcerting to put it mildly! & so would she.

amicissimma · 05/02/2022 21:08

I used to take DS into the men's when he was beyond toddler stage.

I once, in a crisis, took DD into an OK men's.

I used to take my disabled dad into the men's - he would have been mortified to be in the ladies and disabled facilities were quite rare in those days/where he lived. Just occasionally we got stuck and I had to ask for help. It was less embarrassing for him to be helped by a man than a woman.

Never saw any male genitals, just a row of backs. Not that I was looking as I was involved with the person I was accompanying.

BanginChoons · 05/02/2022 21:09

It's fine. I wouldn't even bat an eyelid.
Women's toilets have cubicles, right? I dont think i have ever seen anything other than hand washing going on in the ladies outside of the cubicles. I don't get why anyone would feel their privacy has been compromised.

Original poster
Chichimcgee · 05/02/2022 21:11

@Motorina he is verbal in a sense as in can form words but has huge communication and language difficulties.
I currently chat to him in the cubicle ‘come on then James let’s clean you up, ok can you pull your trousers up. You’re being a really good boy. You’re doing really well let me just do the button up’ purely in the hopes that anyone who came in while we were in there would realise there’s a male there but I was supporting him.
Do you think that’s helpful enough to let people know the situation?

OP posts:
EveryFlightBeginsWithAFall · 05/02/2022 21:13

@eejervis you need it explaining to you why it's more acceptable that a young teen with severe autism who needs help goes to the female toilet with his mum rather than the mum go into the male toilet? Really?

Would you want a man taking his teen daughter into the female toilet?

Teach your child that some times older children have a disability and need to be in the toilet with their mum .

I wouldn't have a problem with an adult with severe disabilities being in the female toilets with their carer if that's the only place they can go

He's not a threat to me and I'm not worried about a male seeing me wash my hands tbh

Motorina · 05/02/2022 21:14

I think that's helpful, because it clues people in on the situation. I totally understand that you're in a situation of having to chose between the least bad options. I don't have a better solution for you, but wanted you to know how this would leave me feeling.

gemloving · 05/02/2022 21:15

I personally wouldn't care. He's disabled and relies on you. You do what you've got to do. It's hard enough without these additional challenges you're facing.

I've never seen this happen but I'd know you'd have a reason to being your teenage child into the toilet. You're a good mama Thanks

gettingolderandgrumpy · 05/02/2022 21:18

Oh for goodness sake people saying it’s not acceptable why? A woman can’t go in the mens as they have urinals . Woman have cubicles so yes it’s perfectly fine take him in people will understand and if you don’t have a word with yourself. I’ve took my sen ds to the ladies numerous times if disabled not available or my dh is not with us for him to take him to the mens . Nobody cares most people understand.

eejervis · 05/02/2022 21:19

Chichimcgee to answer honestly, if she had complex toilet needs then I think either we would be somewhere where I knew there would be disabled facilities, planning ahead and thinking of it as if she were a wheelchair user, or I would have to be out with her rather than just DH. I would also be making a lot of noise about improving facilities where they were needed. I know that's not what you want to hear though and I know it's very restrictive and a horrible situation.

greenlynx · 05/02/2022 21:27

I’m surprised that you are coming across places where disabled toilet is not available. My DD has disability and needs help at the toilet in certain situations. Sometimes disabled toilet is in different location then other toilets e.g on the ground floor but in public places there are always a disabled toilet. I came across small cafes a couple of time which had only one biggish but still not accessible enough cubicle but museums, libraries etc always get an accessible toilet. To be honest it’s the first thing I check when planning an outing, we never go to places where toilets are not immediately available e.g we wouldn’t go to the beach without toilets near by or for a walk in the woods or to a cafe without a toilet.
I would understand you and him being in the lady’s together. DD would be upset if she’s in the toilet without me.