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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask what you’re doing awake post-midnight? Part 2: Insomnia Strikes Back

987 replies

5YearsLeft · 05/02/2022 11:24

Bit awkward to start this in the middle of the day, but I wanted to be able to link it on the old thread before it completely fills. Meanwhile, even though right now it’s not post-midnight, if you’re having a day-after hangover from insomnia, feel free to post. Whether it’s from poorly children or babies or pets or OHs, whether it’s grief or fear or anxiety or other losses, whether it’s work stress or home stress or just LIFE stress, we get it. You’re not yelling into the void; you’re sharing with people who have been stuck wide awake, too.

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MrsGlum · 10/03/2022 23:02

@5YearsLeft I’m glad your DH helped you to get out for coffee with your friends. Well done for going despite how sick you were feeling. I struggle just to get out of the house at the moment!

I hope his presentation went well. I get the worry about their health under the stress of working and caring for us. I too worry about the effect my situation is having on my DH. It’s hard on them. The difference you and I have is the conversations about our outcomes - your DH is facing losing you which must be horrendous. Mine is constantly reassuring me that things will get better and I’ll be back to normal eventually. I have to say I am less and less convinced of that as every day I feel no better, but I’m glad he keeps saying it.

I hope you are feeling a bit better now and get some sleep tonight.

Tallisimo · 10/03/2022 23:34

@5YearsLeft glad you got to talk a little, can’t have been easy for either of you. Hope the next round of chemo isn’t too horrible x

@Heisrotten2thecore I believe a lot of women go through the same feelings as you when they see their ex - no matter how vile he is - move on. I suspect it has something to do with us mourning for the life we thought we had, should have had, and in my book it’s entirely natural to feel this way. I’m sure it’s one of the stages of moving on in our own lives, tho it probably doesn’t feel much like progress now. Allow yourself to feel sad, then remind yourself of the 101 reasons why you left him and why you are glad to no longer be with him x

@catwomando your cat post made me smile all over. I miss having kitties around and getting cat fixes from people like you is helping me to keep going!

@MrsGlum we’ve got you, girl, remember that! X

Thank you for the various kind wishes re the old sciatica. I’m sure we’ll get it sorted in the end.

5YearsLeft · 10/03/2022 23:56

Welcome to the after-midnight thread! If you’re awake with stress, loss, grief, fear, anxiety, worry, overthinking, too much or too little wine, pain, illness of you or others, or just plain insomnia, this is your thread, and you’re always very welcome.

Feel free to vent, whinge, cry, etc.

@Wallywobbles Lovely new lambs! I hope she goes pro breast feeding just so you don’t have one more thing to deal with in this crazy lambing season of yours.

@Tallisimo Too true about the talk! I was wishing well to @Confusedmeanderings with starting her next chemo on Monday so I think you meant her. Some of my pills are a a bit like chemo, so maybe that’s the confusion?

@MrsGlum Ha, I’ve been sleeping all day after the coffee, so now I’m all messed up.

I’m hoping we won’t need a new thread until tomorrow.

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purpleme12 · 11/03/2022 00:30

I'm just lying here with my tabby cat (again 😍)
He loves me so much ❤️
Did you have a good time with your friends @5YearsLeft

5YearsLeft · 11/03/2022 00:48

@purpleme12 Your cat sounds amazing! Sorry you’re awake again though. Yeah, it was great to see them. I actually made plans to go to the garden tomorrow with one of them, very very quietly so the universe wouldn’t hear, but I still woke up tonight at like 00:40 with a slight wet cough, so I’m really praying I manage to fall back asleep and it’s gone in the morning, because a wet cough is deadly, deadly thing for me and there’s no way I can do anything but stay in bed if I still have it.

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Confusedmeanderings · 11/03/2022 01:21

@5YearsLeft I have everything crossed that the wet cough comes to nothing and you get to enjoy time with your friend.

@catwomando I love that superhero picture. I love your description of kitty spaced out on catnip. My cat just ignores it! On the other hand, if I have a bit of smoked salmon he will roll about trying to tempt me into giving him a bit. He's a cat with expensive tastes!

@Heisrotten2thecore you are having a tough time. Is this an opportunity to change direction and do something totally different? Having that to focus on might distract you from thinking about your ex.

I had my Looking Good, Feeling Better session today and I've been swanning about the house feeling glam all day. They're going to send me a goody bag too with loads of products from the likes of Chanel, Lancôme and Elizabeth Arden. Now, however, I'm feeling fed up because the cat has abandoned me in favour of my DP and I have a phone call with the oncologist tomorrow so I'm worrying about what the outcome of that will be.

Confusedmeanderings · 11/03/2022 01:26

On the subject of Chanel, apparently they donate thousands of products every year to cancer patients. They also give their staff on the make up counters paid time off to volunteer with cancer patients and in hospices, running make up classes. They don't make a song and dance about it, they just get on and do it quietly. I thought that was great to hear!

JaceLancs · 11/03/2022 01:26

I’m back!
Up late tonight as I’ve just returned from a much needed holiday in the sun
I have given my work phone and laptop to DS with strict instructions not to release until early Monday morning
I’ve managed a week away with only one night of intrusive thoughts and need to de stress a bit more

5YearsLeft · 11/03/2022 01:48

@Confusedmeanderings Cats just do NOT appreciate when you’re looking your best apparently. They’d probably rather have DP looking like a hobo, the ungrateful furry things, ha. That’s great about Chanel; I had no idea. I will definitely keep it in mind if I ever really want to treat myself. And I’ll keep all my fingers crossed for your call with your oncologist tomorrow. I swear, I have a stomach ache for the whole day before I see my vascular consultant anymore.

@JaceLancs Ah, welcome back! Or… you know, it’s hard to know what to say on an insomnia thread. We hate that you have insomnia but we’re happy to see you? What an incredibly healthy thing to do post holiday, re: DS with the work phone and computer. Do NOT override yourself; you’re doing something good for yourself and you’re teaching him such a valuable lesson that you can turn off and that when you say no (even to your own work), it means no. Boundaries are so important and healthy, and he’ll remember this later in life. So glad to hear things are going a bit better with overthinking (THOUGH if you have a rough patch post-holiday, don’t worry, most people do). Hope you get some sleep tonight!

Ok, I’m going to try to sleep again as DH is snoring (I’ve been a bit worried about this lately - he was never a snorer until work got really stressful and I’m just not sure what’s causing it as he doesn’t have any normal snoring risk factors).

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catwomando · 11/03/2022 05:34

Hey everyone 👋

It's been a gloriously sunny day here and I got some time out in the garden planting seeds for the summer and drying some washing outside (so satisfying !) I'm off on a weekend yoga retreat later today so that should be amazing. Never been on one. I'm not in my best shape at the moment so will have to pace it and respect what my body can and can't do (very difficult for a driven , competitive person that i am !!). It's been weird packing as I haven't been away for so long - I used to,travel with work all the time and could get ready in about 10mims , but today has taken ages as I'm out of practice,

@Heisrotten2thecore I just remembered a little story from my past related to my ex DH, which I thought you might enjoy, and which might give you hope. He had been having an affair with a colleague, came home one day, announced he was leaving and walked out. it turns out they had already bought and furnished a house together so he literally walked out of my life and into hers. It was very hard and publicly humiliating for me and I was a mess. I took time to rebuild and reinvent myself - therapy, getting fit, redecorating the house, getting new single friend s and whole new social life, lots of flirting and fun. Then met my now DH who swept me off my feet (he's still wonderful 25 years on ❤️). So to the point of the story: during the divorce ex DH saw me at my worst, crying, sad, angry , thin, grey and ragged - broken. Then one day a couple of years later I was with my handsome, sexy new DH a beautiful thing happened. It was a lovely spring day, I'd just had a funky new haircut, was glowing (at last!) in second trimester pregnancy, was looking good and feeling fantastic, loved up and special . DH and I were walking (floating?) hand in hand through the city centre. We stopped momentarily and spontaneously to kiss. And just as we came out of our clinch, there was ex DH. Stomping along with dowdy looking new wife (yes bitchy me, sorry not sorry) having obviously just had one of those domestic weekend rows. He looked miserable. Our eyes met, I beamed at him, said nothing and carried on walking. It was a marvellous moment, and proves that a) revenge is a dish best served cold, and b) living your life to is the best is the sweetest revenge of all . I don't think this story shows me in my best light really, but it's honest and it did feel so good GrinNow with the benefit of time and distance I realise that the best thing ex DH did was to leave. It freed me to find the true me and to find the love of my life. Hard (impossible?) to see that at the time though.

@Wallywobbles is lambing usually this tough? It's like living an episode of Emmetdale in real time. You work so hard Shock

@5YearsLeft - yay! You got out with friends. It's so good for the soul isn't it? Whenever I go out for coffee with friends I'm never sure what to drink - coffee has , ahem, a rather strong laxative effect on me, and tea makes me wee very 5 mins and hot chocolate makes my teeth squeak and it always seems mad to spend almost £4 on a cup of hot water with a herbal tea bag . But then there's the cake that goes with and then it's all so lovely and worth it. And the friendly chatter and then an hour has slipped by in wonderful humdrum friendship and then you realise that it's not about the tea, it's about the friend. Wonderful

@Confusedmeanderings ooh how lovely to have a pamper thingy and that goody bag sounds amazing! Chanel cosmetics are just the best (especially the lipstick!!!). It must be quite daunting facing more chemo - are you on a regular cycle?

I've just popped downstairs to make tea and waded (exaggerating much?) through 3 lots of cat vomit 🤮 so had to clean that up whist I was there. It's almost dawn here and the birds are waking up. I wonder if birds get insomnia?

Wallywobbles · 11/03/2022 06:32

@catwomando no this year has been awful. Never had so many issues. I think if it was a big commercial flock you wouldn't have so many issue because you wouldn't give the ewes a second chance. We have only 14 breeding ewes. And so I know them all which makes for easier management but makes hard choices much harder.

If you have a look at Sandi Brock on YouTube or Instagram she has a big indoor flock and it's very fantastic. She's awesomely in touch with her sheep and her audience and very big on mental health in farming. If you want distraction I've not found anyone better.

5YearsLeft · 11/03/2022 10:53

Sun’s up (maybe way up?) and thread is down. But you can always leave a message any time of day.

I’m trying to determine if I feel healthy enough to go out this afternoon. I’m on my own all weekend, something I didn’t really know when I made the plans, so I really can’t go if I’m feeling anything less than 100%. I have a slight headache and I’m a little squiffy so I’m giving it maybe 10 more minutes to figure out if I feel too crap (took a headache pill).

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Wallywobbles · 11/03/2022 21:15

Sophie is a breast feeding champ. Proving the size of your udders is not the be all and end all!

One ewe (41) left to lamb and she's quite large so hopefully twins.

Crevette is doing very well.

Everyone was wormed this evening with an injection behind the ear for some weird reason.

Sunrise from our run in to work/school this morning.

To ask what you’re doing awake post-midnight? Part 2: Insomnia Strikes Back
Tallisimo · 11/03/2022 22:29

Thought I’d draw everyone’s attention to this - our lifeline will be temporarily unavailable!

And we all have to login afresh and remember our passwords! Eek!

Mumsnet is re-platforming. So we will be offline between 12am and 4am overnight Monday 14th to Tuesday 15th March.

What do I need to do?

The first time you log on to Mumsnet post-replatforming (from Tuesday 15 March) you will need to remember your password. If you can’t (and let’s face it, few of us can) then you’ll need to reset your password. Sorry if that’s a pain - but it is the only secure way to do this.

5YearsLeft · 12/03/2022 00:37

Hello and welcome to the after midnight thread! If things currently suck for you and you’re awake, then you’re very welcome to this thread. Feel free to whinge, moan, vent, or just share. You’re being heard.

I made it to the botanical garden today which means that I‘ce been halfway asleep or all asleep from exhaustion ever since.

@Wallywobbles Gorgeous!

@Tallisimo What madness is this! Remember my password?! I can’t even remember my name, ha, unless someone yells for me once a day. Good grief. So we’ll be offline Monday to Tuesday.

To ask what you’re doing awake post-midnight? Part 2: Insomnia Strikes Back
To ask what you’re doing awake post-midnight? Part 2: Insomnia Strikes Back
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MrsGlum · 12/03/2022 01:40

@Tallisimo
Thanks for the heads up. I’ll definitely have to take a sleeping tablet that night otherwise it’ll be a long 4 hours!

@5YearsLeft
Lovely photos. Looks like you had a good day, but what a shame you have to pay such a heavy price afterwards. I hope your cough is better.

I’ve had a really bad day today with terrible anxiety. Struggling to cope.
Stupidly dozed off with my light on at 11:00pm and came round with a jolt. I’m so cross that I used up whatever little natural sleep hormones my poor brain has managed to make before lying down properly and turning the light out.
So now I’m wide awake and the anxiety is in full force again.
Those AD meds really did a number on my brain chemistry.
My poor body and brain are just never getting any real rest
Don’t know how much more of this I can survive..,,

5YearsLeft · 12/03/2022 02:07

@MrsGlum I can completely understand a lost anxiety day. I had one either Wednesday or Thursday, I think. It’s awful. And unfortunately, I have that happen, too, where I wake up and the light is still on. Though one of my diseases knocks me out, when it’s time to knock me out, so if I fall asleep and then wake up with the light still on, chances are I fell asleep at 9 and it’s now 1 (because that didn’t happen tonight or anything…). As for how much you can survive, believe me, I’ve been asking myself that question for nine years as it’s gotten progressively worse. But I’m still here and I’m not dead yet, so the answer is that you can survive an incredible amount.

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5YearsLeft · 12/03/2022 02:09

@MrsGlum I want to make it clear though that I don’t pretend survival doesn’t hurt. Sad I know it can sad and lonely and terrifying and awful and most of all EXHAUSTING. I know it doesn’t seem any better yet. But you were getting no normal sleep. Now your body IS drifting off, but jolting awake, so it still needs some help. Half the battle is just laying down the minute you feel tired at night.

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MrsGlum · 12/03/2022 02:40

@5YearsLeft
Yes the body is amazingly resilient despite what, in my case, we either throw at it intentionally or as in your case, have thrown at us isn’t it.

I’m going to have another go at dropping off now. 🤞🏻

I may be back….

lborgia · 12/03/2022 03:34

Ooh, a stripy crocus! One of my to 5 things I miss about the UK is spring.
The flowers, crocus, primroses, grape hyacinth etc, gambolling lambs, all the green buds on chestnut trees, catkins and pussy- willow.

Thank you for the chance to reminisce.

I've got to do something about my sleep. I'm really an 8 hours a sleep hall gal so 4-5 broken hours is messing with my mind.

@MrsGlum - I know I've come in at the arse end of this conversation, but how did you come off your drugs. Because in my 25 years of experience with anti depressants, it's always been the withdrawal that's caused brain frying.

Now I use the Lucretia Borgia Approved Method (patent pending!), it's not a problem.

Took me years to figure out though. And I unless there's a reason I need to do it quickly, I take 3 months to wean off. At least.

Have even been known to go back on something, so I can come off it properly.

What did the doctor say about the effects you're experiencing?

MrsGlum · 12/03/2022 04:03

Hi @lborgia .
I had to come off cold turkey due to debilitating joint problems and very low almost suicidal mood. GP and pharmacist both said ok to do as I was on the lowest dose and only for 2 months. It was mirtazapine.
I’ve been suffering terribly since then, 9 weeks ago.
I can’t go back on it due to the side effects. In fact I don’t want to ever be on any more ADs. This was my first experience of them and I really shouldn’t have been on it. I feel I should have been encouraged by the GP to approach my anxiety issues with counselling and natural remedies. It was such a mistake to take them.
GP is saying that my symptoms can’t be withdrawal any longer - it’s just my anxiety. I told him I’d never had anxiety and insomnia to this extent beforehand but he wasn’t budging.
Do you think I may have caused permanent problems by going CT?

lborgia · 12/03/2022 04:50

No, I don't imagine it's caused permanent problems, but I'm not in a position to say. In my mind I see it as similar to a bad park in the car. If you don't reverse at the right angle and speed, it doesn't matter how many times you shunt backwards and forwards, sometimes your only real option is to get out of the space, and start again! It would be interesting, with your GPs knowledge, to try a quarter tablet, to see if the worst of your symptoms abate. If they do, then maybe you need to keep that going and then start decreasing extremely slowly.

If it doesn't seem to have any impact, or makes you feel even worse, then you know it's your current state, and not the medicine.

The "it's fine to stop cold turkey" is reckless, and typical of those who know what they've read, but not experienced it themselves.

I do think, though, that you are blaming your GP unfairly. He prescribed it in good faith, if anything, it's one of the best tolerated of the anti-depressants.

He must've chosen this particular one for a reason. It's usually given when the patient has a problem with insomnia as well as depression.

So, did you already have insomnia before you took it? I thought the insomnia was a result of taking the medicine.

Some drugs have suited me better taken first thing, others at night. Some I've taken as much as is possible, some I've only needed the lowest dose.

Usually a gp will suggest a prescription if the person in front of them seems to be really struggling. If they're just beginning to feel a bit overwhelmed, then maybe they'd suggest some of the cbt materials that are available in the NHS, but normally people only present when they're close to wits end, in which case, a suitable antidepressant, and being put on a wait list for therapy would be the ideal combination for most people. In the current climate he probably concerned about patients getting worse and not being able to deal with that later, and is erring on the side of caution.

A GP is very unlikely to suggest "natural remedies" because their potency is not regulated, there are often lots of side effects that have not been properly catalogued, and again, if he thought you were struggling he probably didn't want to mess around. A good example would be "mindfulness". Supposed to be the answer to everyone's woes, when actually, if you're really depressed, it can be quite scary. It helps millions of people, but there are definitely people who shouldn't! Natural means nothing when it comes to supplements. We had 2 cases at the end of last year of young adults ending up in A&E with 2 different organs failing because they had been given "natural remedies" by naturopaths, and one of them ended up in a transplant list. If you don't know what you're dealing with, it can be as disastrous as orthodox medicine.

Choosing an antidepressant is like choosing a friend. You don't just make friends with the first human you see, because they're female, same age as you, and work in a similar place. Not every drug is going to be the right one first time.

I think, given that you end up in despair so many nights, you may benefit from asking for help trying something else.

I understand your reluctance, I really do, but sometimes it's difficult to see the woods for the trees when you're right in the middle of it.

Are you now waiting for counselling or therapy? There's a huge amount they can do for anxiety now with different techniques, maybe explore that too.

Hope your managed to get some more sleep. Bear

MrsGlum · 12/03/2022 06:04

@lborgia thanks. No I didn’t have long term insomnia per se, more that I was having disturbed sleep due to a specific stressful situation. This level of insomnia is new since mirtazapine.
It’s been so long now since i withdrew it would feel awful to go back on it especially as it made me so ill. And I’m terrified of giving myself more problems by using another AD.
Am I naive to feel if I can just ride it out I’ll through it?
I have weekly private counselling and am signed up to do a CBT course.
I just want to be back to my normal self….but she is eluding me

5YearsLeft · 12/03/2022 23:45

Hello and welcome to another exciting edition of the after-midnight thread where we are all things to all women: a relationship thread, an illness thread, a chronic pain thread, an AIBU thread, a children/teenagers/family/dogs/cats/work thread, an insomnia support thread, a sheep raising thread… but never a Sporners’ Corner thread. Never.

It’s Saturday night so we may be extremely slow or we may have lots of people. One never knows. I’m exhausted, but of course, I have the pain. Dying is absolute crap. Anyone who claims otherwise is some filthy liar trying to sell you something.

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Chichimcgee · 13/03/2022 01:55

Good morning, evening, whatever it is. Baby girl can sense when my eyes close and she doesn’t like it, trying to put her in the Moses basket is like trying to place a landmine without it going off. DS is listening to the same song on repeat and has been for 3 hours, I’m hoping he’s in a deep enough sleep now that I can turn it off.
Hope everyone is getting some sleep, sorry I’ve not been keeping up with everyone’s issues but I’m sending you all healing hugs Smile

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