AIBU to ask if you sleep trained your baby

[babyjellyfish]

What approach did you take, how old was your baby and how successful was it?

Looking for a range of views and experiences.

Thank you.

@babyjellyfish, my babies are adults now so I can't remember but do you have a health visitor/community nurse you can consult? From my experience and reading other posts, if you decide to try anything it would be important to have some support and feel confidence and comfortable with the method.

@babyjellyfish

Yikes, I see! Jay Gordon not going to help you then I suspect.

Is there anything you could change during the day? Drop a nap? Change the times?

Controlled crying at 8 months after months of a gradual decline in the amount of sleep we were getting.
Within 3 nights he was sleeping through & it was life changing.
I was broken with the lack of sleep before &
not far from a breakdown. His development was suffering because he wasn't sleeping enough. Co-sleeping didn't work, he fed/rocked to sleep & would wake as soon as he was put in his cot. We were desperate.

It's not for everyone & that's fine. Worked for us though & we were all much happier (baby included) with proper sleep.

@babyjellyfish my advice would be for you and hubby to tag team every other night and for the sleeper to go to a different room with 'deep sleeps' wax earplugs, go to bed super early, catch up on sleep at the weekends, take a holiday day here and there to sleep and just wait it out. Things get better over time, there is so much going on developmentally in the first year or so that can affect sleep, but it does end. Download the wonder weeks app if you haven't already.

Or you can sleep train, but you'll need to make peace with the fact that a lot of people feel it is cruel and the longterm effects are unknown. Yes, there are no credible studies proving it is harmful, but equally there are also no credible studies that show it isn't.

Have you tried playing around with daytime naps? If he's just awake for ages in the night and doesn't seem tired, could he be sleeping too much in the day or finishing his last nap too late?

I assume you're not interacting with him unless it's necessary.

Have you ever tried having him in a separate room to you? If he's basically happy during his midnight parties, would he just chat to himself and roll around happily by himself in a cot without you? What would happen?

There's really nothing in the current situation that you can change with sleep training so I think you might be on the wrong track. He already seems to know how to fall asleep by himself and he's not distressed, so it seems like the main problem is he's just not tired?

Yes - at 19 months. He was still waking every 60-90 minutes, we were both working, we couldn't cope any more. Worked in 4 nights, brilliant stuff.

We were very successful. Used the Gentle sleep training book technique at 8 months. And then again at 6 months. Both times worked very well.

I did it at 7 months for both of mine. Was adamant with my first I wouldn't do it, but my son would wake up every 45 mins because his funny would fall out and he woke up. It was hell on Earth. We met with a baby sleep expert at a baby show, bought her book. She advised us to take away all toys and dummies and stimulation from my sons crib, except one thing like a Muslim cloth. We went in and out of the room at varying intervals to catch my son off guard while he crying (so he didn't know when we'd come in and just cry longer). Within an hour he put himself to sleep. He woke once that night and went back to sleep. And he slept though the night ever since 8pm - 10 or 11am every night for an entire year after. My daughter was pretty much the same. Best thing we ever did for our sanity and theirs.

I have friends that have 2,3 and 4 year olds who still haven't slept through the night and somehow end up in the parents bed every night. Utter madness if you ask me. The child is beyond ready for a proper nights sleep. The parents on the other hand are the ones with the issues

[quote Shitandhills]@babyjellyfish my advice would be for you and hubby to tag team every other night and for the sleeper to go to a different room with 'deep sleeps' wax earplugs, go to bed super early, catch up on sleep at the weekends, take a holiday day here and there to sleep and just wait it out. Things get better over time, there is so much going on developmentally in the first year or so that can affect sleep, but it does end. Download the wonder weeks app if you haven't already.

Or you can sleep train, but you'll need to make peace with the fact that a lot of people feel it is cruel and the longterm effects are unknown. Yes, there are no credible studies proving it is harmful, but equally there are also no credible studies that show it isn't.[/quote]
The long term effects are very well known. There are no negative long-term effects to sleep-training. It’s been around for decades. Children who were sleep-trained as babies have grown into adults who function as well (or as badly) as anyone who was not sleep-trained.

My 7 yr old is a perfectly well-adjusted, securely attached child. I dread to think how he would have turned out if the chronic sleep deprivation had continued. The damage to our attachment would have been far far longer lasting than anything caused by the 2 nights of gentle sleep training we needed to get him sleeping through. The dark thoughts I had night after night and morning after morning as I staggered out to my full-time, high stress job with virtually no sleep.

Yes we did when our twins were just over a year. Were on our knees with exhaustion, weren’t being good parents as so tired/grumpy and our relationship was suffering. Best thing we did. Felt like a new person after a decent night’s sleep.

I don’t know anyone who hasn’t done a form of gentle sleep training. When DT’s were tiny DH was working in A&E and I was working long stressful hours in my first post qualification role. We, and DT’s had to have a good night’s sleep so the sleep consultant we used helped us achieve this gently and quickly.

No. I didn't with any of them and I wouldn't if I had another. I think it's quite barbaric if I'm honest.

Yes did controlled crying at 9 months, took three days and they have both been great sleepers since. Currently lovely and well adjusted 12 year olds. We are much better parents when we get enough sleep. Would do it again in a heartbeat.

@HorseInTheHouse

Have you tried playing around with daytime naps? If he's just awake for ages in the night and doesn't seem tired, could he be sleeping too much in the day or finishing his last nap too late?

I assume you're not interacting with him unless it's necessary.

Have you ever tried having him in a separate room to you? If he's basically happy during his midnight parties, would he just chat to himself and roll around happily by himself in a cot without you? What would happen?

There's really nothing in the current situation that you can change with sleep training so I think you might be on the wrong track. He already seems to know how to fall asleep by himself and he's not distressed, so it seems like the main problem is he's just not tired?

Sleeping too long during the day might be the culprit but it's hard to tell. I've said to the childminder that we are going to spend a couple of weeks really working on night time sleep but if it doesn't improve we want to reduce his daytime naps. I don't think he's anywhere near ready to go down to one nap per day though.

We have had brief, not very successful stints of putting him in his own room. Basically, for a while it was a choice between him crying in his own room or sleeping soundly in our bed, so we went for the bedsharing option. But now it's between him crying in his own room or pratting about all night in our bed and none of us getting any sleep, we are having to re-evaluate.

[quote Shitandhills]@babyjellyfish my advice would be for you and hubby to tag team every other night and for the sleeper to go to a different room with 'deep sleeps' wax earplugs, go to bed super early, catch up on sleep at the weekends, take a holiday day here and there to sleep and just wait it out. Things get better over time, there is so much going on developmentally in the first year or so that can affect sleep, but it does end. Download the wonder weeks app if you haven't already.

Or you can sleep train, but you'll need to make peace with the fact that a lot of people feel it is cruel and the longterm effects are unknown. Yes, there are no credible studies proving it is harmful, but equally there are also no credible studies that show it isn't.[/quote]
That's what we're currently doing and we're at our wits' end.

What time are his naps currently and for how long?

Another thing I should mention is that he is taking propranolol for an infantile hemangioma. This is relevant for two reasons. Firstly, it can cause sleep disturbances. Secondly, he needs to take it first thing in the morning on a full stomach, which means I shouldn't really feed him after about 3am at the latest because if I do he isn't hungry enough in the morning and can't take his medication.

I discussed his sleep with the doctor at his last appointment and I said it's difficult to know for sure whether the medication has affected his sleep or not because it wasn't great beforehand. She basically said that if we are letting him sleep with us, of course he doesn't want to go to sleep because being with mum and dad is much more fun, and we need to put him in his own room and be a bit tougher with him.

We live in a country where maternity leave is only 16 weeks, usually 6 weeks pre due date and 10 weeks post birth, and most babies are in full time childcare from the time they are about 3 or 4 months old. Most are also formula fed from that time onwards, if not from the beginning. Most people here would consider me to be practically a hippy given that I went back to work when he was 7 months old and am still breastfeeding. So the advice here is pretty much, he should be in his own bed all night every night and definitely shouldn't still be feeding overnight. The children here don't seem traumatised, for what it's worth.

@Giraffesandbottoms

What time are his naps currently and for how long?

Usually about 10-11 and then 2-4 or 4:30. Bedtime is 8pm. I think the afternoon nap may be too long. He naps much longer and more successfully with the childminder than he does at home. (So we know he is capable of sleeping in a cot.)

The last nap is far too late! You usually want 5 hours between last nap and bed time, at this age. I would try to change naps first of all as that’s usually easiest. Perhaps push first nap back 30-60 mins and hope it lasts a bit longer and then scrap the second. Or wake him up at 3 from the second.

No idea re the meds.

FWIW I’m not sure it’s possible to really see “trauma” in a child from this sort of thing. Or many things. Doesn’t mean there hasn’t been an impact.

I wouldn’t focus on what anyone else says anyway, really, I would think about what’s best for your family.

@jgjgjgjgjg

Sleep training does not teach babies not to have needs, it just teaches them not to continue expressing their needs. It breaks the link between a baby signalling that they need help and an adult responding. Personally that's nor what I want for my children.

Do you think sleep trained babies won't still cry for their parents on the nights when they are ill? Because they do. It doesn't change them into non-crying robots.

I’d definitely play with the daytime sleep. My daughter is roughly ages with your baby and I do a 1/2 hour nap 9.30-10 (give or take 15 minutes) if she’s still sleeping I wake her.
Then her lunchtime nap is around 12.30/1 for about 1.5 hours. Bedtime is 6.30, she wakes at 7am.

I suppose I would move him into his cot in his room. If he is happily awake during the night and not disturbing you then it's less of an issue.
That may take some time to achieve.

His big daytime nap is too late. It would probably work better if his first nap were longer and then he went to bed at 7pm without a second nap.

He’s probably just going through a developmental stage. I think there is a horrible regression around 9-10 months. Everything is a phase- it will get better with time..

Yes I think I will speak to the childminder tomorrow about that second nap.

We can't feasibly move bedtime any earlier (so that'll be fun when he drops to one nap) but we can probably increase that last wake window.

We are trying the gradual retreat method, starting tonight. Just sitting in the dark stroking his little hand now.

Yes, both at 8 months with CC. They are now 19, 15. No long term effects.