Why did he have that in his bum?

[IfIcouldturnbacktime217]

So tonight DD asked me when she was going to bed about something a boy in nursery had on his bum. She said he pulled his pants down and showed her a worm then starts showing me her mini saying she doesn't have a worm! I've tried to ask how this happened and not got a lot of sense from her (she's 3) I think it may of been in the toilet but she said there was no teacher there. AIBU to be thinking they shouldn't be going the toilet together without a teacher and slightly alarmed by this?

Saw this earlier today, can't believe it's not been taken down.

[quote OverTheRubicon]**@eastegg* If she is ever questioned about anything serious, she can use whatever words she feels comfortable with. The adults dealing with it have ways of managing that like simple diagrams, dolls, etc. It’s not rocket science. Ridiculous to suggest it wouldn’t be clear if she didn’t say vagina. Good grief, how do you think the sexual abuse of very young children ever gets prosecuted*

The issue is that adults might not even realise that anything serious is going on, when a child tells a long and complicated story about someone looking at their flower/cookie/mini/biscuit.[/quote]
The post I was responding to specifically talked about the police not understanding what the child was talking about, so a situation where the concern has already been picked up and the child is being spoken to by professionals. So my post was a valid response to that.

The idea that the concern might get missed in the first place because of the words the child is using? I don’t really buy that. There are highly likely to be adults in the child’s life who would know what she was talking about.

The “situation” would have been a lot less confusing had you used the words vulva and penis. Like an adult. HTH

Obviously you didn't help because all you did was criticise and insult OP on something she didn't ask for advice on.

FGS you might like the words but if there's an issue at nursery and an adult doesn't understand what your child means there could be a safeguarding incident. What child shouts those words out anyway 🤷🏼‍♀️

My friend's a teacher who sadly missed a safeguarding concern with one of her young students because the girl told my friend that her grandad always licked her cookie. My friend brushed it off as just one of those silly stories children tell. It was only months later that the girl fell over in the playground and hurt her "cookie", that the teacher realised that the "cookie" meant her vagina. Teacher contacted social services and turns out the girl was being abused by her grandfather.

Not all adults know those cutesy terms - so best to teach correct terms to avoid confusion (or at least slang terms like fanny and willie that don't have other meanings).

My point is that if she had responded with a simple question along the lines of "oh dear, when was that?", it would open up the conversation. Children who are being abused by family members are highly unlikely to have been taught the correct atomical names of their body parts. Surely in this day and age when safeguarding is supposed to be considered in everything we do and people are so much more aware of it, there is a place for professionals to be questioning and aware that if a child makes a point of telling them something it is important to that child - regardless of whether it is safeguarding or not. I find it worrying that so many professionals don't know the slang terms - it doesn't bode well for a young child who decides to take the step of telling a trusted adult something very important to them for it to be brushed off as a silly story! We need to listen and engage with our children. Although to be honest if a child told me a family member had been licking her cookie this would ring alarm bells, the same as if someone under the age of 17 told me someone had touched their mini!

Yes it is better that children use the correct terminology.

But what's most disturbing about these threads is how many adults claim not to understand the alternative terms. This is very worrying- it means a child seeking help needs to have the exact right terminology or otherwise they won't be understood?

Why are there so many posters unable to figure out the context? Hopefully it's pretence and just for show so these posters can believe they are superior.

I think this is a ' Only on Mumsnet' thing again..

I have not heard of any parent sitting a 3 year old down and explaining that they must use the words ' Penis' and ' Vagina' for their genitals.

There is plenty of time for that , let them be children and use ' Willies' and ' floofs' or whatever.

Honestly, this site sometimes..

Of course we understand the terminology but when children use these words so normally in general- especially cookie. It’s easy to miss @LavenderAskew.

Especially with younger children where they don’t really give you the full picture, it could mean anything. If they said the right words you’d instantly be alert to it.

@LavenderAskew and @Devastatedyetagain how are adults supposed to know all of the random slang terms that people call their children's genitalia. I know some but not all, like cookie I wouldn't have got what the child was talking about. Mini, I assumed in the OP was a typo and was supposed to be mine. I'd have worked it out in context but people really shouldn't call them random slang terms. More mainstream slang terms like pee-pee, willy makes more sense then cookie.

A boy I knew as a child called his penis a shark. Should adults assume any word is slang for a genitals because there are seemingly some random words used.

To all those saying they'd immediately understand the significance of cookie, mini, flower, tutu, random word - no, you most likely wouldn't.

Kids don't march up and announce they're going to disclose now, so please stop what you're doing, pay attention, and get your code book ready. It's a few words, as part of a fantastical story, embedded in a stream of random chatter, to absolutely anybody at all, whilst they're busy doing something else.

Teach children the correct terminology. It is empowering, and allows them to communicate clearly with anyone and everyone, not just their parent or teacher, who might also be their abuser.

My BiL taught my niece the word Vagina when she was three. Her five year old brother went around tell everyone that his sister had a 'pagina' for a couple of weeks.

It was fine, nobody feinted in horror or ran away screaming.

Both children are now well-adjusted teenagers.

@WonderfulYou

I love when MN posters get so triggered when people don’t use the correct terminology for genitalia- but then will happily use the word ‘bum/bottom’ like they’re the real words.

I wonder if their kids say faeces and urine instead of poo and wee? 🤔

I think the issue is that there’s not a widely known ‘nickname’ for a vulva in the same way there is a penis. If a little boy was talking about his Willy then everyone would know what he meant, but there are so many weird/cutesy names for female genitalia that there’s not the same awareness. Bottom or bum is the same as willy- everyone knows what a bottom is!

I remember plenty of people saying ‘fanny’ when I was at primary school, but that seems to have fallen out of fashion slightly

It's a few words, as part of a fantastical story, embedded in a stream of random chatter, to absolutely anybody at all, whilst they're busy doing something else

And full appreciation of its significance relies on a child care worker or teacher not being busy tending to another child, thinking about the afternoon’s plans, watching to make sure Johnny doesn’t hit Thomas (again) and the like. Add in a whole heap of other distractions and chances are if a small child is talking about a food item, you’ll likely just assume they’re talking about food.

@Icantremembermyusername

Jeez, glad people came in with references to body parts, I was thinking he was storing a garden worm in his bum cheeks and scared where that might end!

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

And, if you really think a trained child protection officer, teacher or a police officer is not going to be able to work out what a child means if they don't use the correct anatomical name for their body part, then I don't know what to tell you.

They use drawings, dolls etc . ...it's not case of "sorry, didn't say the word vulva, abuser goes free".

What I do agree with is not using a name that is clearly something else, like lettuce, cookie , lollipop etc..that is a bit bonkers and inviting confusing.

@IfIcouldturnbacktime217

Shes never saw a willy before so that was why she said worm, she didn't know what it was. I don't mind using words like mini, would much rather her shout that round the shops than vagina. It was really about the words we use it was about the situation

OP I hope you're paying attention to all the responses on this thread.

People teach their children ten correct names for their genitalia for many reasons, but a key reason is it helps to stop any ambiguity over anyone touching your child.

If your child went to a teacher and said 'someone touched my mini' there's a decent chance nobody would understand or see the relevance in what they're saying. Just as you're confused and some posters are confused with the word 'worm' if she came home and said a man showed me a worm you may brush it off.

Be responsible and do the right thing.

Was it his penis or an worm that came from his anus that he was showing her?? I'm confused and worried in equal measure! Does this kid have worms or is he flashing your daughter? Either way it needs dealing with.

After reading this thread, I'm thinking the continued use of cutesy language will itself become a red flag! The safeguarding benefits of using correct terminology are very clear.

If there was a situation where you might have a child come round for a play date with yours and you don't know the parents particularly well but they seem like nice people, and you hear a conversation between your children with the child saying something along the lines of 'my uncle stuck his finger in my cupcake' and your laughs in response because they just assume their friend is talking about an actual cupcake and the conversation just continues (because that is what abused children often do, details come out in very little dribs and drabs). Now even if you did find that concerning, which is unlikely because most people wouldn't make that leap. You don't think about that sort of thing on a daily basis and so it's not a normal conclusion. But even if you did think that and bring it up with their parents out if concern - and the parent knows what's going on and says 'ohh no it's nothing here's what happened' and then they go home and the parents warn the child off from mentioning anything ever again to anyone. It is open to interpretation. Now if that child disclosed: my uncle put his finger in my vagina that would immediately ring alarm bells, that leaves no room for interpretation and there would be no getting around it. Children should be taught the correct names for genitals from an early age. It's nothing to do with intelligence (being Oxford educated adults doesn't mean they were safe as children, they were just lucky to not have experienced that kind of abuse) it is about giving our children the best possible chances of protecting them should the unimaginable happen.

.

I was another of those thinking threadworms, and quite frankly was relieved by that.

“Why did he have that in his bum” had me thinking about all the horror stories my A&E nurse friend would tell me. And the ridiculous excuses those patients would give.

I work with children. Up until reading this thread, I had no idea that people called their vagina/vulva a "mini", "fairy", or a "flower". I am not British. Correct terminology is so important.

If a child told me someone touched her mini, I would have assumed it was a toy car or stuffed "Minnie Mouse". I would have encouraged sharing and brushed it off as children tattle all the time (which is entirely the opposite of what I would do if I knew the actual meaning). It would not be recorded as a concern, nor would it be passed on to a safeguarding lead. The child would likely continue to suffer abuse.

That said, people are being particularly nasty to OP.

OP I’m also a single mum and had the same issue of not being able to introduce private parts / basic anatomy in an everyday family type of way.

I ended up getting a few age appropriate books to help with this. It became no big deal but definitely filled a knowledge gap and helped with getting it right in terms of age as well, as these picture books were written so perfectly for little ones