Why did he have that in his bum?

[IfIcouldturnbacktime217]

So tonight DD asked me when she was going to bed about something a boy in nursery had on his bum. She said he pulled his pants down and showed her a worm then starts showing me her mini saying she doesn't have a worm! I've tried to ask how this happened and not got a lot of sense from her (she's 3) I think it may of been in the toilet but she said there was no teacher there. AIBU to be thinking they shouldn't be going the toilet together without a teacher and slightly alarmed by this?

As they are 3 years old I would not be getting over excited about this. He's hardly going to corrupt or assault her with his worm. Kids this age are just uninhibited. If you are u happy about it I would just mention it to staff, but it's no big deal.

@MooseBreath

I work with children. Up until reading this thread, I had no idea that people called their vagina/vulva a "mini", "fairy", or a "flower". I am not British. Correct terminology is so important.

If a child told me someone touched her mini, I would have assumed it was a toy car or stuffed "Minnie Mouse". I would have encouraged sharing and brushed it off as children tattle all the time (which is entirely the opposite of what I would do if I knew the actual meaning). It would not be recorded as a concern, nor would it be passed on to a safeguarding lead. The child would likely continue to suffer abuse.

That said, people are being particularly nasty to OP.

The failing in this scenario if a child continued to suffer abuse would be with the adult failing to ask simple, basic follow up questions.

It takes a couple of seconds to ask important follow up questions in this instance:

Child: "He/she touched my mini"
Adult: "You mean your mini teddy / toy?"
Child: "no, not that"
Adult: "tell me/ show me what you mean".

Leads to child potentially making the most important disclosure of their life and saved from an abuse situation.

It's not hard. These things should be queried, especially when a child refers to someone touching something with ambiguous language,

In other words. When a child is using ambiguous language to describe something being touched, particularly a very young child, assumption is dangerous. Why anyone wouldn't take a few seconds to seek further clarification in this scenario is beyond me.

And yes, ideally a child would have the correct terminology to use when making a disclosure. But if they don't, they have only the words they have been taught to communicate this. "Tell me what you mean?" Five words that could potentially save that child from abuse. I feel very strongly about this for personal reasons

@Sofiegiraffe - the entire point is that the adult in question needs to KNOW that someone might use the word in that context in order to understand that it is ambiguous. My Bum, Bottom, Privates, Willie and Fanny are commonly used to give ambiguous context (US fanny adjusted definition would still raise flags). Someone else possibly touching an word common in everyday speech like cookie, flower, mini etc are not obviously ambiguous. A large number on the thread have said we've never heard of a "mini" used in this context, so simply wouldn't know it's any more ambiguous than talking about a truck, tree, jigsaw, book, cake, teatowel, jumper or any other word the child comes out with in conversation.

[quote JustUseTheDoorSanta]@Sofiegiraffe - the entire point is that the adult in question needs to KNOW that someone might use the word in that context in order to understand that it is ambiguous. My Bum, Bottom, Privates, Willie and Fanny are commonly used to give ambiguous context (US fanny adjusted definition would still raise flags). Someone else possibly touching an word common in everyday speech like cookie, flower, mini etc are not obviously ambiguous. A large number on the thread have said we've never heard of a "mini" used in this context, so simply wouldn't know it's any more ambiguous than talking about a truck, tree, jigsaw, book, cake, teatowel, jumper or any other word the child comes out with in conversation.[/quote]

Yes. But if a child approached me randomly and said "such a body touched my mini", I'd instantly have a feeling of unease and a need to ask follow up questions as a minimum. Because there is reference to touch. Eg.

"What's a mini, sweetheart? What do you mean?"

How long does that sentence take?

Answer - "it's my toy". Great, no issues.
Answer - "my private area". Huge issues.

That's my point.

The point I'm making is, I agree that the word is ambiguous, and it is precisely because it's ambiguous that I would feel the need to ask more questions.

@Sofiegiraffe If a child said "someone touched my pizza", you'd seriously be concerned? Because that's the equivalent for loads of people with mini, cookie, fairy, cupcake, etc. If they don't know it's ambiguous, their brain processes as if it's not.

I find it concerning that lots of posters are so concerned about ensuring their child knows the correct names but would brush off a comment because of an assumption that it means something else. Whilst there is no issue with calling things by the correct name surely there must be an acceptance that children who are being abused will more than likely not use the correct terminology. We need to engage with our children not just ignore their "silly stories". I have had lots of conversations with children who have referred to something by the incorrect name, an example a three year telling me about a bouncy bouncy. Through engaging with them I ascertained it was a trampoline. Please, please if a child tells you something that sounds a bit odd, engage, ask questions. Grandad licking my cookie is a bit odd isn't it? Someone touched my mini - don't assume it's a cuddly toy.

I would not raise this with the nursery - it is a non-problem. All little ones take a peek to see what others have in their pants. If he starts waving it about all the time, then a word should be had, but otherwise this is a one-off and totally harmless.

I can remember sharing a viewing with a little boy behind the oak tree on the playground - not that I was in need of the info as I used to bath with my brother (shock horror!) - but hopefully I advanced the boy's education.

@Devastatedyetagain I think anyone concerned about abuse will ask questions to find out what the child means.
But plenty of people don't think that of as a possibility and just brush off comments young children make that they don't understand with a that's nice. Understanding what young children are trying to say, especially when it is not your own child, can take effort. Not everyone puts in the effort. And I say that as an ex nursery worker.

If a child said "someone touched my pizza", you'd seriously be concerned? Because that's the equivalent for loads of people with mini, cookie, fairy, cupcake, etc. If they don't know it's ambiguous, their brain processes as if it's not.

But would you seriously brush it off? Different if you are all sat at the table eating pizza, but if a child told you that somewhere else would you not question? As pp have said a simple "do you mean your slice of pizza" will be enough to start the conversation and give you an insight.

*Do you work in the criminal justice system?

I do. There’s much more flexibility now about the sort of questions you can ask young witnesses, it’s all about getting the best evidence. The system would not be hamstrung by a 3 year old calling her vulva/vagina a mini in the way you describe, no way.*

No, I didn't think so. I can imagine most children don't use the words penis and vulva, and doubt if a child was being abused it would be completely dismissed just because they didn't know the correct terminology.

@DetectiveFlorence

I think this is a ' Only on Mumsnet' thing again..

I have not heard of any parent sitting a 3 year old down and explaining that they must use the words ' Penis' and ' Vagina' for their genitals.

There is plenty of time for that , let them be children and use ' Willies' and ' floofs' or whatever.

Honestly, this site sometimes..

Willy is fine. Very well known.

Floof???

Words like flower, daisy, tutu, mini, cookie are not at all are ambiguous - they all have very clear widely understood existing meanings. Some parents have chosen to hijack these and use them as names for reproductive anatomy for no good reason that I can fathom. Why is anyone defending this?

Perhaps being able to accurately use the correct terminology for our sexual organs should be a prerequisite before using them to create a child in the first place.

A child might speak to a nursery worker, a teacher, a doctor, a neighbour, a friend's parent, a teenager working at soft play who happens to be near the toilets... The issue is not whether a parent understands their own child's "cute" words, nor even what a trained professional might pick up when there is reason for suspicion, but ensuring that anyone can understand your child immediately if they speak up about a problem. Children are not necessarily sobbing when they put such comments into conversation, they might be deliberately casual while checking if it's ok.

It's also fine to teach two words; teach penis and then also teach willie, no problem to expand vocabulary once your child is clear about the first word. A young child calling their vulva something silly like a "flower" isn't going to know to follow up with the word "privates", the majority will be more likely to repeat "flower" more loudly.

@IfIcouldturnbacktime217

Shes never saw a willy before so that was why she said worm, she didn't know what it was. I don't mind using words like mini, would much rather her shout that round the shops than vagina. It was really about the words we use it was about the situation

But if she knew the correct words then you wouldn't be in this situation!

Teach her both the nicknames and the correct names.

Also, speak to the nursery, as it may be a safeguarding issue.

OP I hope you're paying attention to all the responses on this thread.

Ffs how patronising.

Some absolute FUDS on this thread.

Jesus Christ. I can't see anywhere on the OP where they have asked for advice on what their child should call there genitalia?

Why does a 3 year old need to know its a vulva? So many patronising weirdos on this thread

@HaveringWavering

I mean I dunno what situation you was brought you but that’s not normal to see your dad’s penis, in any circumstances.

@Hertsgirl10 you’re talking nonsense. Little girls and boys see their fathers naked all the time. It’s completely normal. Some families- clearly yours- may prefer not to let the children see the parents naked but it’s in no way deviant or abnormal to be open and relaxed about family nakedness.

@HaveringWavering

Really is this normal practice for men to have it all on show in front of their kids?
I don’t know anyone that said they saw their dad’s dick casually when growing up.
My husband would never dream of letting it all hang out in front of children, and I don’t know anyone else that would think this appropriate.

@Devastatedyetagain

If a child said "someone touched my pizza", you'd seriously be concerned? Because that's the equivalent for loads of people with mini, cookie, fairy, cupcake, etc. If they don't know it's ambiguous, their brain processes as if it's not.

But would you seriously brush it off? Different if you are all sat at the table eating pizza, but if a child told you that somewhere else would you not question? As pp have said a simple "do you mean your slice of pizza" will be enough to start the conversation and give you an insight.

I don't know if it's a true story, or just to give an example, but I read something similar on a Facebook post that had been widely shared. A little girl who apparently told her teacher her uncle kept touching her "cookie", and the teacher told her just to keep it away from her uncle and tell him not to, not realising she wasn't talking about an actual cookie. It depends who the child tells - maybe their parents would question it. If someone else's child told me someone touched their cookie/pizza, I'd probably assume they were upset that someone had been trying to take their food at some point.

[quote Ponoka7]@Hertsgirl10
"Is it older people that haven’t heard of these terms like mini?"

I'd say that the older generation are more likely to use nicknames and not the correct terms. I read my sister's feminist books in the 70:s but outside of them no-one was talking about vulvas. We used euphemisms used on Benny Hill, Morcambe and wise, on the buses etc. There were songs such as 'keep your hand on your ha'penny'. Why would you think that it's an age thing? The 70's and earlier were a time of inuendo.[/quote]
@Ponoka7

When I say older I meant 40 + because the nicknames are quite common knowledge, I think anyone under 40 that is saying they’ve never heard of it are either saying it to be all ‘mumsnet’ and act like they’re all confused when they know exactly what the OP means or they live under a rock.

Definitely children need to learn the correct terminology, but I don’t believe for a second that anyone wouldn’t read between the lines when it comes to a child saying mini in the context of someone touching or hurting it.

why did u word your title as if it was something you didnt understand? the title doesnt fit the post

@estellacruella

why did u word your title as if it was something you didnt understand? the title doesnt fit the post

I agree-that is really odd.

I’m presuming the girl told her mum that a boy had a ‘worm’ in his bum, but I’m hoping the OP said-‘oh, that wasn’t inside his bottom, that was his penis/willy-that’s where boys can do a wee out of. Boys and girls have different bits and pieces.’

What I suspect she said was, ‘did the nursery let you and a boy go to the toilet together?!!’