Why did he have that in his bum?

[IfIcouldturnbacktime217]

So tonight DD asked me when she was going to bed about something a boy in nursery had on his bum. She said he pulled his pants down and showed her a worm then starts showing me her mini saying she doesn't have a worm! I've tried to ask how this happened and not got a lot of sense from her (she's 3) I think it may of been in the toilet but she said there was no teacher there. AIBU to be thinking they shouldn't be going the toilet together without a teacher and slightly alarmed by this?

[quote KevinTheKoala]@Thatsplentyjack that has happene. Its not being stupid it's advice from people who have sadly gone through that horrific experience and found that their child couldn't express what happened clearly enough using words to make a statement. Cutesy names - particularly names that sound like food/toys/pets - can and do cause confusion.

Why can't children be taught the correct names for their body parts, it isn't overloading them, they know the correct names for every other of their body and all it does it create confusion and shame. You are teaching them that their body is taboo, from a very early age they are learning that their genitals are so shameful that they can't even be named. There are adults who can't even name their genitals correctly because they were never taught and that's really sad.[/quote]
Well that's disgusting and just proves that our justice system is an absolute joke!

@Flutteryblutterly

I know, these are little kids, and actually this is the natural way to learn, through curiosity. In many cultures nakedness is normal, here people assume sexuality ... little kids don't have that reserve yet so are far more open than us adults.

As to labels and names, my DD's have got to adulthood just saying bottom if required, never needed anything more detailed until older (dd had a uti and she was old enough to self diagnose by Googling it!)

@Thatsplentyjack Yes our justice system is a joke. But it doesn't take away from the fact that it can stop you getting justice.

I was told awful story by social worker that small child kept telling teacher that x was touching her mini. Teacher assumed mini was some form soft toy. No the child was being sexually abused.

Well that's disgusting and just proves that our justice system is an absolute joke!

Well, the issue is you can't ask leading questions. So you can't ask, 'Where did he touch you?' because the child hasn't said that the mini is a body part. You could ask, 'Where is your mini?' and go from there, but kids might not respond to that, particularly if they think it's a shameful part of the body/something not to be discussed. At best, trying to get a straight answer out of the kid is going to add trauma to an already traumatic situation. At worst, it could frustrate prosecution.

I had a very PC mother who used penis, vagina, had the Karma Sutra on the bookshelf as well as other sex education books for kids but when we got older of course we used willy for boys and I can't even remember what for vagina!

Totally normal behaviour.

Claim to fame - DM grew up in Clapham and played Doctors and Nurses with the Waterman family, one of whom was called Dennis.

Shes never saw a willy before so that was why she said worm, she didn't know what it was. I don't mind using words like mini, would much rather her shout that round the shops than vagina. It was really about the words we use it was about the situation

Why would you be shouting around the shops about genitals?

They should have been supervised better but this did make me laugh. So sweet and innocent. She must have thought it rely was a worm.
I remember going upstairs once and my son and his friend were comparing penises naked.
I was inwardly horrified wondering what my sons friends mum would think. I got them into their clothes and out to the park ASAP.
Children are very curious about these things.

If it were me with my kids (don't have them) I'd want to know precisely the correct terms to use and in what context and then generally no, you don't show your bits to other people especially unknown adults. Doctors and Nurses type games are fine though.

I actually had an unpleasant experience at age 8 where a boy aged 9 touched me intimately once - I sort of realised it was wrong but it was after Kiss Chase and I was also in the first year of a new school and struggling to make/keep friends. Luckily I got moved after a year to my old school. I now know years later that he was probably being sexually abused by a family member to try this out on me.

I did sort of know but sort of didn't that others shouldn't touch you there. My DM and even family doctor brushed it off though...

@OnlyAFleshWound

Shes never saw a willy before so that was why she said worm, she didn't know what it was. I don't mind using words like mini, would much rather her shout that round the shops than vagina. It was really about the words we use it was about the situation

Why would you be shouting around the shops about genitals?

@OnlyAFleshWound - exactly - context is everything! When and where to use words about genitals.

@FedUpOfLighteningCrotch

I’m sure you’d much rather her shout the word mini than vagina in a shop. But god forbid if she is ever in a situation where she needs to be questioned on the subject, it is much, much more relevant and clear for her to call it a vagina, because that’s what it is.

“He touched my mini” could mean anything to anyone, only you know truly what she means, police won’t.

I know it’s not nice to think about but there is absolutely nothing wrong with calling body parts their anatomical names, they’re not bad words and they’re not embarrassing and should be made to think they are.

It’s not about you and your preference on what to call it, it’s about the safety and clarity of your child.

Plus for what it might be worth I’d cringe at a child saying ‘mini’ in reference to her vagina in a shop, rather than praising the parent who taught they’re child the correct word and shouted out ‘vagina’ .. although I would wonder why they were shouting it in the shop

If she is ever questioned about anything serious, she can use whatever words she feels comfortable with. The adults dealing with it have ways of managing that like simple diagrams, dolls, etc. It’s not rocket science. Ridiculous to suggest it wouldn’t be clear if she didn’t say vagina. Good grief, how do you think the sexual abuse of very young children ever gets prosecuted?

@Shehasadiamondinthesky

They should have been supervised better but this did make me laugh. So sweet and innocent. She must have thought it rely was a worm. I remember going upstairs once and my son and his friend were comparing penises naked. I was inwardly horrified wondering what my sons friends mum would think. I got them into their clothes and out to the park ASAP. Children are very curious about these things.

@Shehasadiamondinthesky - actually it's fairly normal of your son and his friend to do that.

But like you say it's not great to let them dwell on it too much.

I wonder how they deal with this in countries where they're more open about nudity like e.g. Germany?

Jesus, speak to the nursery this is not on.

@Devastatedyetagain

This amazed me - really? If a child confided in you that a man/boy had touched their flower/fairy/cookie, you would just brush it off? Wouldn't you have a conversation about it? Oh dear, when was that, what happened, where were you? It will become quite obvious if they are referring to a boy at school touching the cookie in their lunchbox. I find it quite scary that we are expected to treat our children like adults when it comes to naming body parts yet we don't engage with them and ignore their concerns. My 7 year old would be traumatized if someone touched her cookie or her favourite fairy and I would make a point of listening to her and discussing it.

My friend's a teacher who sadly missed a safeguarding concern with one of her young students because the girl told my friend that her grandad always licked her cookie. My friend brushed it off as just one of those silly stories children tell. It was only months later that the girl fell over in the playground and hurt her "cookie", that the teacher realised that the "cookie" meant her vagina. Teacher contacted social services and turns out the girl was being abused by her grandfather.

Not all adults know those cutesy terms - so best to teach correct terms to avoid confusion (or at least slang terms like fanny and willie that don't have other meanings).

I love when MN posters get so triggered when people don’t use the correct terminology for genitalia- but then will happily use the word ‘bum/bottom’ like they’re the real words.

I wonder if their kids say faeces and urine instead of poo and wee? 🤔

@ThirdElephant

Well that's disgusting and just proves that our justice system is an absolute joke!

Well, the issue is you can't ask leading questions. So you can't ask, 'Where did he touch you?' because the child hasn't said that the mini is a body part. You could ask, 'Where is your mini?' and go from there, but kids might not respond to that, particularly if they think it's a shameful part of the body/something not to be discussed. At best, trying to get a straight answer out of the kid is going to add trauma to an already traumatic situation. At worst, it could frustrate prosecution.

Do you work in the criminal justice system?

I do. There’s much more flexibility now about the sort of questions you can ask young witnesses, it’s all about getting the best evidence. The system would not be hamstrung by a 3 year old calling her vulva/vagina a mini in the way you describe, no way.

@Mischance

"Oh did he? That is his penis. Boys have these and girls don't."

End of story.

I reckon this is the most sensible reply of all!

@eastegg If she is ever questioned about anything serious, she can use whatever words she feels comfortable with. The adults dealing with it have ways of managing that like simple diagrams, dolls, etc. It’s not rocket science. Ridiculous to suggest it wouldn’t be clear if she didn’t say vagina. Good grief, how do you think the sexual abuse of very young children ever gets prosecuted

The issue is that adults might not even realise that anything serious is going on, when a child tells a long and complicated story about someone looking at their flower/cookie/mini/biscuit.

I thought he was showing her is itchy thread wormy anus not his willie!!

"Is it older people that haven’t heard of these terms like mini? I mean it’s pretty common so thinking it may be an age thing."

I've never heard it being referred to as a mini before this thread. I have heard flower, cookie, bits and privates. Must be a regional thing.

@nokidshere

If, god forbid, anything awful happens to your child, and she has to tell authorities, or adults wherever, no person is going to know what a 'mini' is. You need to get her to use the right words for her own sake. This really isn't about what you're comfortable with, it's a safeguarding issue.

Whilst I totally agree with you that we should teach children correct body terminology it's absolute poppycock that adults in positions of trust or safeguarding, nurseries, school and other professions wouldn't understand the use of other terminology.

Mostly they will.

But if something happens and a child discloses abuse, if they’re interviewed by police they will need to be very clear in their telling of what happened, in order to meet the standard of evidence required by the CPS to prosecute. Saying “he touched my mini” won’t cut it. You then, as an interviewer, have the very difficult task of getting that small child to explain to you, on camera, exactly what they mean by “mini”. It’s distressing and unnecessary. Children should know the correct words.

Do you work in the criminal justice system?

I do. There’s much more flexibility now about the sort of questions you can ask young witnesses, it’s all about getting the best evidence. The system would not be hamstrung by a 3 year old calling her vulva/vagina a mini in the way you describe, no way.

Now I don’t know if rules have changed since I changed jobs four years ago, but four years ago we were still having to ask children to be specific in ABE interviews.

ParisLondonTokyoSlough
What a shame your friend didn't investigate further . Ive never heard Cookie used as a term for genitalia but I could make a pretty good guess and would have asked a few more questions, rather than just brushing it off.