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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To hate a certain type of middle-class insult?

326 replies

AllThePogs · 02/02/2022 14:52

I am working class and grew up in a very rough area. If I am going to insult you, I will insult you. It is straightforward and you know where you stand.
But there is a certain kind of middle-class person who insults people using veiled language. I see it on MN all the time.
I can't stand it. It is a way to pretend to be polite and reasonable, while often throwing insults with a pretty vicious undertone.
And these people get away with it again and again.

OP posts:

lavender2022 · 02/02/2022 16:07

@StrychnineIntheSandwiches

I suppose on MN you might well be deleted for insulting someone vigorously, so people try and get around it by being a bit pass agg and politely vinegary. Trying to channel their inner Dorothy Parker. Although no one can do a put-down quite like Dot!

Not convinced it's class related though.

This.

I don't understand, OP. Can you give me an example of a middle-class insult please? Confused.

TabithaTittlemouse · 02/02/2022 16:08

How do you know what class these people that are upsetting you are from?

I think rudeness is classless regardless of how it’s delivered.

BlusteryLake · 02/02/2022 16:08

A more sophisticated nuanced insult is also an attempt to assert intellectual superiority. This tends to be more important to the middle classes than working classes, so in that sense OP's observation might be valid.

Gonnagetgoing · 02/02/2022 16:09

I'd go so far as to say not middle class but upper class.

I recall being in a lunch venue which sold pizzas (not Pizza Express) in a vair posh area (I worked there) - met friend for lunch, went to pay. Snobby Sloane Ranger type pushed past me with cash held in the air (I was at the till before her with my debit card) - and she made it such that the cashier just accepted it, with a sideways glance at me - she'd seen it all before but couldn't be bothered to tell SS off. I couldn't be bothered to argue with SS either so left it.

Another time, in Kings Road, walked to a cash point but didn't realise someone was waiting in line to use it, they veered out of the line and were talking animatedly to a friend so I didn't know if they wanted to use it or not. Got the "friend" (Snobby Sloane) berate me for a good 5 minutes on 'how vair rude I was to push in' whilst I apologised profusely and of course stepped back.

I had a lovely vair posh boyfriend for a while (Times journo) who was a bit of an idiot but had one of the poshest accents I'd heard. If I was with him he gave lots of withering put downs to fellow Sloanes as a lot he couldn't stand, despite having been with them a lot during his life.

Coronawireless · 02/02/2022 16:09

A vvvv typical example is a customer service agent saying, “I’m sorry you feel that way”
Translation: “I’m going to do fuck all to help you but I’m saying it in such a way that you can’t call me or my company out on it.”

Tal45 · 02/02/2022 16:09

You do realise using 'a certain kind of middle class person' is actually veiled language ie you don't say what kind - and is exactly what you are saying you hate. Now that's ironic/moronic. Depending on whether you prefer veiled or unveiled language.

Why you are angry at people saying 'did you mean to be so rude?' but you're not angry at the people who were actually rude to them in the first place?
The majority of times I have seen that on here has been when someone has had something horrible said to them and they're looking for advice on what to say back next time.

You do realise that the 'certain kind of middle class person' is actually veiled language ie you don't say what kind - and is exactly what you are saying you hate. Now that's ironic/moronic. Depending on whether you prefer veiled or unveiled.

DrSbaitso · 02/02/2022 16:10

The old story about the exchange in the courtroom between a judge and the barrister he pissed off...

"The defendant was clearly as drunk as a judge!"

"I beg your pardon? Do you not mean 'as drunk as a lord'?"

"As Your Lordship pleases!"

TabithaTittlemouse · 02/02/2022 16:10

@ChickenStripper

Yet you are the person who referred to older women "bumbling" about the house all day. Did you not like how that thread went?

Ahh! I think you may need to work on yourself op (yes, I am being passive aggressive but I’m telling you that I am so it’s ok I think!).

crazyjinglist · 02/02/2022 16:13

Insulting someone is insulting them, whatever vocabulary you use. Personally I don't think I'd find it any better to be insulted using blatantly offensive words than more subtle ones. I've never thought the 'I call a spade a spade' thing was much of a virtue tbh. I think it often means "I'll say what I like to you, so tough shit". Passive aggression isn't very nice, but open aggression isn't either.

DrSbaitso · 02/02/2022 16:14

I suppose what annoys me most about the "call a spade a spade" people is that they're rarely actually stating objective, undeniable fact...if they were, they probably wouldn't be in a disagreement in the first place.

Stravaig · 02/02/2022 16:15

That's interesting, OP, I interpret what you describe as cultural, rather than class related, but I suppose culture and class are interacting, with interesting results. To me, it's very English. Or 'British'.

thispooshallpass · 02/02/2022 16:15

You can't tell someone to fuck off or insult them here (banned), which is why people don't. Rudeness is unpleasant whether blunt or veiled.

Gilda152 · 02/02/2022 16:15

The fact is, we're all strangers here. So if someone disagrees with me, they don't know me, or my life , my finances, my history etc etc so it doesn't matter what they think of me. They can insult me in a working class or middle class way and it's going to be gone out of my mind the minute I close the tab. The ones who really get on my pip are those who can't agree to disagree , or 'last word annies' as my mum used to call it 😁

LaChanticleer · 02/02/2022 16:16

I am middle class class and grew up in a very rural peaceful area. If I am going to insult you, I will keep it to myself. I try not to be deliberately rude to other people. It is straightforward good manners.
But there is a certain kind of working-class person who thinks it's OK to insult people using direct language. I see it on MN all the time.
I can't stand it. It is a way to pretend to be better than other people, while often throwing insults with a pretty vicious undertone.
And these people get away with it again and again.

NoNever · 02/02/2022 16:17

It’s okay to be mad at someone insulting you indirectly. That’s the point after all.

Thinking that being directly nasty is somehow “better” is weird.

Both can be called out as rude.

Haffiana · 02/02/2022 16:18

I think you are being fucking rude and insulting to middle class people. Do you see everyone as stereotypes?

mustlovegin · 02/02/2022 16:20

Why don't you brush up on your insulting technique OP? You'll be surprised of what you can achieve with a bit of practice

5128gap · 02/02/2022 16:20

@MedusasBadHairDay

OP are you arguing that being rude to people is ok as long as you are really overtly rude about it?

Personally I'm not sure the method of delivery makes one type of insult worse than the other.

I think it does. A straight insult is a response to a specific behaviour the person has shown. The veiled insult goes further and implies the person is of lesser intelligence than you. So saying 'that was rude' comments on their behaviour while 'did you mean to be so rude?' Suggests they lack the intellect to understand how their words may be received. Its also really cowardly. If you have something to say, have the courage to say it unambiguously, not in a mealy mouthed, perhaps they might not realise way you can squirm out of later if it gets you into hot water.

Original poster

AllThePogs · 02/02/2022 16:23

@ChickenStripper why do you do that? Misquote me? I didn't as you imply insult older women by talking about bumbling around the house.
There is nothing wrong with bumbling about the house. It simply means being in the house and doing lots of small jobs at a relaxed pace. It is how my elderly mum spends her days. Perfectly fine. I was simply saying that I don't think it is good for someone to live their whole adult life doing that. And I was perfectly clear on this. There were no passive aggressive insults.

OP posts:

OverByYer · 02/02/2022 16:23

So are you saying you dish it out but can’t take it yourself?

toppkatz · 02/02/2022 16:24

People with real genuine class wouldn't say things like that at all. They are unfailingly polite whatever the circumstances.

Stravaig · 02/02/2022 16:24

@mustlovegin

Why don't you brush up on your insulting technique OP? You'll be surprised of what you can achieve with a bit of practice

Wonderful! Very Eliza Bennet on playing the pianoforte 🤣

2Gen · 02/02/2022 16:25

@AllThePogs- I know what you mean OP! I don't particularly enjoy being insulted in any way but sly digs and patronising put-downs are the worst as they're more tricky to defend yourself from! The ones I hate most are delivered in a half-joking way so the insulter can claim they were "only joking"! I think it could be called "plausible deniability"!

Goldenbear · 02/02/2022 16:25

I do know what you mean but I don't think it is always class based. I am probably 'middle class' by definition (embarrassingly) but I am quite forthright and a bit of a rocket in certain scenarios, so I am not PA. I had this interaction with a woman at the weekend that fits the bill though. There is lots of double parking near my home so back forwards, reversing and forwards again and again- I'd let loads of people go through but with thanks from only one of them, one driver should have stopped to let me pass as it was just taking the piss but he snuck in anyway, he didn't thank me so I threw my hands in the air and may have said something, the woman following him in an Audi 4x4(of course) put her window down and asked what was wrong as she had also snuck in behind him! I said that I have now been waiting about 5 mins for people to go by and it is pretty selfish and that actually a 'thanks' would be nice. She put on this insincere shocked and bemused face, like I had said to her that she had a Giraffe riding in her boot with it's neck sticking out the back window, munching on tree leaves why she waited in the traffic! That was the look which is a PA look IME and then whispered a tentative, 'er, sorry?'. I just replied, 'whatever' as it is like she's never had to use the word 'thank you' before. The faux shock at how anyone can even care about such stuff

Original poster

AllThePogs · 02/02/2022 16:25

@Coronawireless

A vvvv typical example is a customer service agent saying, “I’m sorry you feel that way” Translation: “I’m going to do fuck all to help you but I’m saying it in such a way that you can’t call me or my company out on it.”

Yep exactly. It is infuriating and designed to shut you up.

OP posts:

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