To hate a certain type of middle-class insult?

[AllThePogs]

I am working class and grew up in a very rough area. If I am going to insult you, I will insult you. It is straightforward and you know where you stand.
But there is a certain kind of middle-class person who insults people using veiled language. I see it on MN all the time.
I can't stand it. It is a way to pretend to be polite and reasonable, while often throwing insults with a pretty vicious undertone.
And these people get away with it again and again.

I never normally mention bad spelling or grammar. I've had some glorious autocorrect fails on here myself. If you understand what people mean, that's all that matters for these purposes.

I mention them only if they're relevant. Like the time a poster was sanctimoniously upbraiding me for being her clear moral inferior, and hit a particularly good autocorrect fail that punctured the pomposity so well, I had to mention it. Or the time a poster squared up to me, telling me she could "outspell you any day" (we hadn't been discussing spelling or grammar!) and then proceeded to drop a garbled shitpost in which it seemed autocorrect itself was drunk. What was I supposed to do?

@crazyjinglist

I see it a lot though, the grammar sneerers also like to use the fancy words and clever barbed put downs.

Different people use different ranges of vocabulary in their normal speech. It's ridiculous to expect people to use the level of vocabulary you want them to when they are arguing with you or reacting to something unpleasant you've said. Sneering about fancy words and 'clever, barbed put-downs' is just inverse intellectual snobbery. I agree that sneering about people's grammar is unnecessary and unpleasant though.

People using their every day vocabulary isn't what in talking about. The examples I, and I suspect OP, are thinking of are only said behind the safety of an anonymous forum and reserved for insults. No one says thieve things to people in real life. You imagine it said it's the head tilt and 'tinkly laugh'. It's just obnoxious. What I said about the link between that and the grammar snobbery is my experience so I'm not sure why you're trying so hard to argue with that - perhaps we've been reading different threads.

People using their every day vocabulary isn't what in talking about. The examples I, and I suspect OP, are thinking of are only said behind the safety of an anonymous forum and reserved for insults. No one says thieve things to people in real life. You imagine it said it's the head tilt and 'tinkly laugh'. It's just obnoxious. What I said about the link between that and the grammar snobbery is my experience so I'm not sure why you're trying so hard to argue with that - perhaps we've been reading different threads.

You imagine q head tilt and tinkly laugh.....is you imaging it. So alot of the behaviour you dislike, is partly made up by you and then projected onto the other person.

Everyday vocabulary is different for different people. What you call a fancy word may be perfectly normal for anyone of any class.

It is inverse snobbery. If people use vocabulary you find to be 'fancy' and aren't in your face with an insult. They are obnoxious.

But if they use vocabulary that's 'not fancy' and are obviously very rude with it, perhaps even intimidating, then thats OK?

Also, this is a discussion forum. When you comment, people are allowed to respond and challenge what you have said or respond with their own point or opinion.

You imagine it said it's the head tilt and 'tinkly laugh'. It's just obnoxious.

You can't berate people for the things you imagine them doing.

[quote AllThePogs]@ChickenStripper why do you do that? Misquote me? I didn't as you imply insult older women by talking about bumbling around the house.
There is nothing wrong with bumbling about the house. It simply means being in the house and doing lots of small jobs at a relaxed pace. It is how my elderly mum spends her days. Perfectly fine. I was simply saying that I don't think it is good for someone to live their whole adult life doing that. And I was perfectly clear on this. There were no passive aggressive insults.[/quote]
Ah, so you didn't mean to be so rude. Fair enough.

But, by the same token, it would be a fair question.

Or the time a poster squared up to me, telling me she could "outspell you any day" (we hadn't been discussing spelling or grammar!) and then proceeded to drop a garbled shitpost in which it seemed autocorrect itself was drunk. What was I supposed to do?

I remember this. You definitely brought up spelling and grammar to knock her down a peg or two and tell her she was shitposting. She told you she could outspell you after that.

@WatcherOnTheWall

Or the time a poster squared up to me, telling me she could "outspell you any day" (we hadn't been discussing spelling or grammar!) and then proceeded to drop a garbled shitpost in which it seemed autocorrect itself was drunk. What was I supposed to do?

I remember this. You definitely brought up spelling and grammar to knock her down a peg or two and tell her she was shitposting. She told you she could outspell you after that.

No, she was angry because I mentioned that "Karen" is the insult du jour for thick people who probably couldn't handle words of more than two syllables. As she liked calling women Karens, she took that personally (as I suppose she should have) and started a war of the words, so to speak, in which she showed me how many three-syllable words she knew. Then she told me she could "outspell" me any day, and then...garbled shitpost.

Like I said, I don't bring it up unless it's relevant, and it really, really was.

Here it is, for anyone who's interested. Gauntlet thrown on this page, shitpost on the next one (in my layout, anyway).

Those were the days.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4337070-Am-I-a-Karen?pg=8

@crazyjinglist

I see it a lot though, the grammar sneerers also like to use the fancy words and clever barbed put downs.

Different people use different ranges of vocabulary in their normal speech. It's ridiculous to expect people to use the level of vocabulary you want them to when they are arguing with you or reacting to something unpleasant you've said. Sneering about fancy words and 'clever, barbed put-downs' is just inverse intellectual snobbery. I agree that sneering about people's grammar is unnecessary and unpleasant though.

Exactly! If you don't understand the vocabulary someone uses that's more of a you issue!

Clever barbed put-downs and grammar police are just nasty. I have seen women pulled up for grammar or spelling when they have posted about abuse. What kind of person does that??

The obsession with class on MN is so tedious.
I honestly don’t see it anywhere else.

Yes I sort of agree. But you said no one was talking about spelling or grammar before she said that. But you did mention spelling/ grammar first by passive-aggresively insulting those who use Karen and their apologists (of which she was either or both - she did say she doesn't use Karen) and saying they couldn't spell a word you brought up because it's more than 2 syllables. No one had mentioned spelling before you said that.

She took it personally as she was already all over the threads arguing with a few posters about people's rights to use Karen if they wanted (or something like that) and told you she could outspell you. After that, you both went on a little grammar and spelling war.

@WatcherOnTheWall

Yes I sort of agree. But you said no one was talking about spelling or grammar before she said that. But you did mention spelling/ grammar first by passive-aggresively insulting those who use Karen and their apologists (of which she was either or both - she did say she doesn't use Karen) and saying they couldn't spell a word you brought up because it's more than 2 syllables. No one had mentioned spelling before you said that.

She took it personally as she was already all over the threads arguing with a few posters about people's rights to use Karen if they wanted (or something like that) and told you she could outspell you. After that, you both went on a little grammar and spelling war.

I...disagree with some of this stuff. But I'm not going to argue it out again. The thread is there in all its dignified glory for anyone who's dying to draw their own conclusion about it.

Yes, I can't stand that condescending passive aggression.

All of the "how odd," " ", and "are you always this anxious/controlling?"

Very irritating and superior.

@georgarina

Yes, I can't stand that condescending passive aggression.

All of the "how odd," " ", and "are you always this anxious/controlling?"

Very irritating and superior.

But worse than the (admirably straightforward.) ‘Stop behaving like such an idiot’ or ‘You’re a total fun sponge and I’m going in search of better company’?

Exactly! If you don't understand the vocabulary someone uses that's more of a you issue!
And this is a perfect example 😆. Of course I understand the vocabulary. It's just presented in a way that no one would use to another person face to face in real life

@GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER

The obsession with class on MN is so tedious. I honestly don’t see it anywhere else.

That's not because the British aren't obsessed with class. It's because they're embarrassed to talk about it the real world. One of the points of an anonymous online forum is that we can fully explore our obsessions.

(Similarly no one in the real world goes on and on about fucking bog brushes!)

That's not because the British aren't obsessed with class. It's because they're embarrassed to talk about it the real world. One of the points of an anonymous online forum is that we can fully explore our obsessions.

Is it such an obsession on other UK-centric sites?

We have this passive aggressive "silky rudeness" in Ireland but it's not seen as linked to the offender's class or status.
It's a character attribute.

I hate it.

@GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER

The obsession with class on MN is so tedious. I honestly don’t see it anywhere else.

If you live in Britain I can assure you, it's there. Our whole society is saturated with it. I find it quite surprising that people say they've only encountered it on MN and wish I could claim the same.

I agree with you completely. It is tedious - very.

On the subject of the SPAG correctors, these are people who labour under the misapprehension that it makes them appear intelligent.
It doesn't. It has the reverse effect. As a response it's unimaginative, and none-too-bright. If that's the best comeback someone has, it illustrates a singular inability to construct a reasoned argument. It's also a waste of column inches and a bore for others to read. They're on a discussion forum not examining for Edexcel.

Added to that, anyone who thinks they've 'won' either an argument or the moral high ground in this way is evidently a bit dense. Perhaps they lack the insight to realise that other readers see this for precisely what it is. A dick move.

Correcting grammar is part of my job, but nitpicking about the SPAG of a stranger on a forum is utterly pointless and makes you look like a twat. Fuming inwardly at irritating mistakes is only human, but people should keep it to themselves. And as for the ones who pretend they think they're doing people a kindness by 'helping' them to improve their grammar, or are single-handedly remedying the lamentable decline in correct English... . It's just so rude and unnecessary!

The only time I ever do it is when some arse is criticising someone else's grammar and then makes a mistake themselves. That's just asking for it...!

On reflection I've realised it's not the way an insult is delivered on here that irritates me. It's when it's unprovoked. This tendancy to deliver sly little put downs, or worse, the clichéd unpleasantries some think are so clever, just because they disagree; or sometimes for no apparent reason. I get furious on behalf of the insultee, and admit to enjoying many a spiteful snigger when someone wittier and equally PA puts the insulter in their place.

I’m Team Straight Talk tbh. Of course it can cause offence but at least you know where you stand and what the other person is thinking. You have the full facts so are in a position to decide whether to modify your behaviour or simply steer clear of someone whose worldview differs from yours.
Passive aggressiveness is dishonest, manipulative, nasty and unhelpful as you’ll never know what you’ve done to offend them and can’t attempt to put things straight.

I don’t think the PA insult is class-based though.