To hate a certain type of middle-class insult?

[AllThePogs]

I am working class and grew up in a very rough area. If I am going to insult you, I will insult you. It is straightforward and you know where you stand.
But there is a certain kind of middle-class person who insults people using veiled language. I see it on MN all the time.
I can't stand it. It is a way to pretend to be polite and reasonable, while often throwing insults with a pretty vicious undertone.
And these people get away with it again and again.

It's a British thing maybe rather than a class thing.

I think some people use it as a polite way to tell you something and some use it as a veiled way of putting you down. It's hard to tell the difference sometimes.

It can be really bitchy though I know what you mean. My MIL does this. 'I hate black cars' when I've just bought one followed by 'I was just speaking generally you know, no need to be offended'. My response would be 'well I didn't buy it to please you, off you pop love'

It's not classed based. Speaking as someone who is regularly insulted at work there are a LOT of working class passive aggressive arseholes.

My theory is that PA behaviour comes from when your power and assertiveness isn't 'allowed'. So the prime culprits are people who have either culturally been prevented from actually speaking their minds (could be older women, trauma-impacted people, insecure men). I try to see it as a symptom of powerlessness. Those of us raised to speak our minds are lucky. We deal with it but don't have to live in their heads.

I find the best way to respond is to basically ignore it and act like you didn't notice the barb. Like if they ask a snarky question, I'll answer it literally. Makes them squirm and hopefully feel awkward.

It's passive aggressive rudeness. A choice to be sneery.

As one who has been deleted and officially told to play nice - because someone chose to interpret me saying I am not a twat as meaning everyone else must be and reported me - I could use some pass agg bollocks instead. But I won't. If I want to tell you you are being a pillock on an issue I will tell you directly.

But that's not a class thing. It's a choice of how you are going to be rude or a prude.

And you are doing too, you know?

Insecurity? Snobbery? That's you, being a pillock on this issue!

@AllThePogs

I don't get into slanging matches either. The choice is not between mean passive-aggressive comments and an Eastenders style slanging match.

Ok, so what do people say when you say "That was rude" ?

@AgnesNaismith

Even worse is ‘corporate rude’ which is people telling others they are shit at their job using nonsensical phrases.

You mean like, as per my email above.....

I fucking love, as above. It means you utterly thick twat, I've already told you and if you'd actually read my email, you wouldn't have to be told again!

@SamphiretheStickerist You think I am doing it too? I really didn't mean to. I just don't understand why people do it. Unless they are just really horrible people.

@Legomania Either they apologise. Or they say they were not rude and why.

I'm very confused as to why working class, your phrase op, thinks its fine to be rude and insulting as long as its obvious that's what you are doing, but those you deemed to be middle class are wildly inappropriate to be passive agreesive. Why is in your face aggression and rudeness by the "working class" acceptable but passive agreesive by "middle class" so wrong. Also, you YABU entirely unreasonable to make this a class thing and think outright aggression is acceptable. Rather than just making it about rude inappropriate people from all walks of life.

[quote AllThePogs]@Legomania Either they apologise. Or they say they were not rude and why.[/quote]
Fair enough. I can see it escalating the situation about 50% of the time though.

I would say a lot of people would feel much more comfortable with non-verbal communication in this kind of scenario. Actually calling someone out in so many words would pretty much be a last resort for me.

I am middle-class, and grew up in a very well-to-do area. I am polite and try to avoid giving offence and to be as inclusive as possible. I think it's very bad manners to insult others and to make people I hardly know feel uncomfortable.

But there is a certain type of working-class person who takes great pride in "calling a spade a spade" and "doesn't mince their words". I see it all the time on Mumsnet. I can't stand it. It's just a way to make a virtue out of rudeness and bigotry. And they get away with it all the time.

@AllThePogs

Yes like that so-called MN stock phrase - Did you mean to be so rude?

If I was asked that I would just say yes.

But did you mean to be so rude it the ultimate PA response to someone being PA.

It's a reply to people who use thinly veiled insults

I can't stand it. It is a way to pretend to be polite and reasonable, while often throwing insults with a pretty vicious undertone.

Done well, it can be an art form. Sometimes they don't even realise they're being insulted.

"Don't insult my intelligence."

"I could never insult your intelligence!"

[quote AllThePogs]@SamphiretheStickerist You think I am doing it too? I really didn't mean to. I just don't understand why people do it. Unless they are just really horrible people.[/quote]
Well, it was partly a joke on my part, but yes. By highlighting this and using negative terms, some would say you are doing it too.

For some ANY negativity is patronising, rude, judgemental.

It's a forum, an anonymous one, one that doesn't particularly mind swearing. For some, like me maybe, who have been bound by work or social norms to mind their mouths, manners etc, a space free of such restrictions is quite nice. So sometimes here I swear because I fucking well can. More often than not to convey total exasperation.

Rude? Yes.

Class based? No.

@Legomania I think passive-aggressiveness makes people far more angry. People arent stupid, they know when they are being insulted.

And so many people on here seem to assume I am promoting aggressiveness. Is this part of the issue? They assume the only two choices is outright aggression or passive agressiveness?

But as said in the OP I will insult some people. If a man cat calls me on the street I will shout - fuck off you sleazy git. I mean this is rare. I am a pretty quiet person usually. But I can stand up for myself if I have to.

Well I think either it's ok to be rude/insulting, or it isnt. If it is, maybe it's best to let people pick the form of expression they feel most comfortable with? Trying to dictate how people insult you is a bit odd.

Insulting someone is generally unhelpful, whether you do it directly or in a veiled manner.

You know who else is well known for “calling a spade a spade”? Donald Trump, Piers Morgan, Jeremy Clarkson.

People who are fans of these oafs usually say they “tell it like it is” & “just say what everyone else is thinking”. I wouldn’t call any of them working class or even middle class.

@DrSbaitso

I can't stand it. It is a way to pretend to be polite and reasonable, while often throwing insults with a pretty vicious undertone.

Done well, it can be an art form. Sometimes they don't even realise they're being insulted.

"Don't insult my intelligence."

"I could never insult your intelligence!"

They do realise. Or I certainly do. I would simply not respond to that and walk away. But I would be fucking raging because that is such a horrible thing to say to someone. So so nasty.

@gokartdillydilly

Why do you feel the need to insult people OP? There's never any need for that, whatever 'class' you may be.

I'll bet OP is Northern and a 'salt of the earth lass' who sees insulting people as just being honest

Oh I don't know. I am quite oblivious generally and don't tend to notice a passive aggressive swipe - I think I must have been insulted many times over the years and just not noticed, or taken the comment at face value. If people are insulting me directly I do get really upset. So personally I prefer the pass-ag because I don't actually notice it nine times out of ten.

I also really dislike that "I call a spade a spade", "I tell it like it is" approach - I have never met anyone who does that, who is happy when people do it back to them.

I would be really fucked off if someone I was being rude to imagined that I was being condescending and looking down on them instead. Or that I was intending to make my deliberate insult some sort of class statement.

Why do you add all that extra layer of misery for yourself when someone is just plain being rude to you?

I agree it's class related. I'm working class but live in a very affluent area now - it's such a different world.

Since you like things said as they are, I would say that I think your OP is very rude and judgement. You are judging people based on their perceived class (I wonder how you know the class of anonymous people posting on Mumsnet?) and insulting a whole group of people based on your preconceived ideas of them.

It feels like a spiteful way to try to bring down "Middle Class People" a peg or two.

People who openly insult people are rude and unkind.
People who passively aggressively insult people are rude and unkind.
It has nothing whatsoever to do with Class.

However, sometimes people have views or behave in ways that are unacceptable. It is neither rude nor unkind to raise that or address it, as long as it is done politely (for example, it's perfectly reasonable to pull people up on racist/sexist/classist/ageist posts, as long as it is done assertively and politely).

@Lipsandlashes and I have a whippet and keep coal in the bath too.

And no, you are wrong. 100%