To hate a certain type of middle-class insult?

[AllThePogs]

I am working class and grew up in a very rough area. If I am going to insult you, I will insult you. It is straightforward and you know where you stand.
But there is a certain kind of middle-class person who insults people using veiled language. I see it on MN all the time.
I can't stand it. It is a way to pretend to be polite and reasonable, while often throwing insults with a pretty vicious undertone.
And these people get away with it again and again.

@RosieGuacamosie

You sound delightful

Quod erat demonstrandum!

No it's not exposing the emperors new clothes by calling a spade a spade. You won't get anywhere by calling a spade a spade. Asserting your boundaries to support women in women prisons, women only refuges ect doesn't mean you have to call a spade a spade. Calling a spade and spade detracts from the issue and you end up in name calling conflicts.

[quote AllThePogs]@Flossieskeeper yes it is so belittling. I just find it so nasty and mean.

@RosieGuacamosie Perfect example there of insulting me in an "acceptable" manner. You know you would get deleted if you used less passive aggressive language to say that.[/quote]
I thought they were giving an example of what you meant not actually directing it at
You

@AllThePogs I think we react first to how mean it feels. But more importantly, it's not honest and straightforward speech, so it disempowers the person it's being used on. It's intended to shut down conversation and keep people in place. It entrenches inequality - which might be why it seems class-based to you. And why it seems culture-based to me - ultimately, it's the communication style of Empire.

@nellly I thought it was aimed at me. If it was given as an example, then it was a perfect one.

@Stravaig that is a really interesting point, thanks.

I sort of know what you mean. At least if someone openly tells you you're a dick, you can retaliate

So you would say the problem is how trans women affect uterus havers safety?
Or would you say it more straightforwardly? (not sure what we can say!)

Not everyone likes using swear words, so will disparage others in a more 'polite' (passive aggressive) manner.
Coming from a rough area, OP, isn't to be worn like a badge of honour, OP, and you come across as a bit of a dick in your posts.
However, if I immediately apologise for referring to you as a "dick" and reframe it by being curious as to why you take such umbrage at carefully worded, perceived insults delivered by the purported middle classes, does that mean I get to stay at this party?!

I like the English way of icily polite insults.

I remember a poster here got a letter from her ex MIL which was basically a very polite upper middle class fuck off. But it confused people as it didn’t actually say so in so many words. It was a fascinating piece of text.

I’m not sure straight fuck off is better. It’s certainly less entertaining.

@esloquehay why do you assume I think coming from a rough area is a badge of honour? It is not. It is just a fact.

Maybe it does as someone else suggested come from insecurity? I don't know. Or maybe as someone else suggested it is sheer snobbery
This in itself is exactly what you're complaining about in others.

Another example is the Royal Families - recollections may differ. Instead of simply, that is not what happened.

I think the richness of our language and the ability to vary the level of directness of speech is one of life's great delights. I love frosty politeness, witty double meanings, skilful sarcasm, gently poking humour - it would be a terrible shame if we decided to dumb that down in favour of simple mud-slinging.

I don't think it is purely a class distinction, either. I am from a very working class Northern background and some of my family can be blisteringly rude without resorting to open insults. There is a class-bound, elitist humour steeped in snobbery and contempt, but it's not a binary choice between that and the spade brigade. There's a wealth of variety in between.

The best way to respond so veiled criticisms is to let them slide over the veil, as it were, smile and respond with something equally icy

[quote Stravaig]@AllThePogs I think we react first to how mean it feels. But more importantly, it's not honest and straightforward speech, so it disempowers the person it's being used on. It's intended to shut down conversation and keep people in place. It entrenches inequality - which might be why it seems class-based to you. And why it seems culture-based to me - ultimately, it's the communication style of Empire.[/quote]
I think many cultures do this though, it’s more Ancien Regime than specifically English. It’s where there’s a culture of politeness and refinement - like Japan. And the French too - while they’re generally more relaxed about being upfront rude and critical, they nonetheless have their own style of polite put downs.

I think the specifically English way is for it to be funny as well.

Yabu/yanbu OP. Years ago, pre-Talk guidelines, mn was basically a bitchfest, you'd routinely get told to fuck off and personal insults were the norm. Now you have to carefully construct your sentences and everyone writes like lawyers to avoid getting deleted, but the poison is still dripping over the keyboards, same as it ever did.

I'm only still on here at times because I'm old and can't relate to much of reddit.

@Johnnypiratesfriend

I call it jellyfishing after Bridget Jones' diary. If I catch someone doing it I just say. 'Awww, I don't care what other people say, I think you're nice!'

'You sound delightful' is simply sarcasm. It is a way of saying 'You sound horrible'. You wouldn't get deleted for saying 'You sound horrible' though, would you? You'd get deleted for saying 'You're a fucking arsehole' though.

Personally I don't think there's any difference in offensiveness between the first and second version. I think the third version is much more offensive because of the language used.

I don't think that expressing annoyance or anger in more subtle, less offensive language is necessarily code for 'I'm superior to you' or 'If I say it this way you can't complain'. I think some people simply aren't comfortable with using openly aggressive, offensive or confrontational language.

@Thedogscollar

Yes I so agree with you. I call a spade a spade. I hate the rude comments sent back to some posters as disguised as "advice" It's not helpful just nasty.

I am glad to say that I have never seen a spade. It is obvious that our social spheres have been widely different.

I am glad to say that I have never seen a spade. It is obvious that our social spheres have been widely different.

@sadpapercourtesan

I think the richness of our language and the ability to vary the level of directness of speech is one of life's great delights. I love frosty politeness, witty double meanings, skilful sarcasm, gently poking humour - it would be a terrible shame if we decided to dumb that down in favour of simple mud-slinging.

I don't think it is purely a class distinction, either. I am from a very working class Northern background and some of my family can be blisteringly rude without resorting to open insults. There is a class-bound, elitist humour steeped in snobbery and contempt, but it's not a binary choice between that and the spade brigade. There's a wealth of variety in between.

Brilliant summary.

Not so much insults but there is a certain type of passive-aggressiveness I see on MN that fills me with rage. For example, the OP posts that her husband is awful, she lists his dealbreaker habits and says she is at breaking point.

Then someone will come along and snidely post "what did he say when you raised this with him?" [anger]

Just fucking ask outright if the OP has discussed it with him, tried counselling, set boundaries, etc. It's so, so smarmy.

I think the richness of our language and the ability to vary the level of directness of speech is one of life's great delights. I love frosty politeness, witty double meanings, skilful sarcasm, gently poking humour - it would be a terrible shame if we decided to dumb that down in favour of simple mud-slinging.

I don't think it is purely a class distinction, either. I am from a very working class Northern background and some of my family can be blisteringly rude without resorting to open insults. There is a class-bound, elitist humour steeped in snobbery and contempt, but it's not a binary choice between that and the spade brigade. There's a wealth of variety in between.

Great post!

@crazyjinglist yes you could get deleted for saying you sound horrible. And it leads to the obvious question of why does that person sound horrible i.e. justify your comment.