To hate a certain type of middle-class insult?

[AllThePogs]

I am working class and grew up in a very rough area. If I am going to insult you, I will insult you. It is straightforward and you know where you stand.
But there is a certain kind of middle-class person who insults people using veiled language. I see it on MN all the time.
I can't stand it. It is a way to pretend to be polite and reasonable, while often throwing insults with a pretty vicious undertone.
And these people get away with it again and again.

@PaddleBoardingMomma

Also agree that "I tell it as it is" isn't a badge of honour, it just tells me you have no tact and speak before you think most of the time.

Exactly. I heard a therapist say "honesty without tact is cruelty." I like that.

My theory is that PA behaviour comes from when your power and assertiveness isn't 'allowed'. So the prime culprits are people who have either culturally been prevented from actually speaking their minds (could be older women, trauma-impacted people, insecure men). I try to see it as a symptom of powerlessness. Those of us raised to speak our minds are lucky. We deal with it but don't have to live in their heads.

Or, to look at it another way, people who have been brought up in an environment where it's not acceptable to yell and swear aggressively at others tend to find more subtle, civilised and eloquent ways of expressing their disapproval or annoyance. I'm not sure that's really a bad thing.

@Thedogscollar

Yes I so agree with you. I call a spade a spade. I hate the rude comments sent back to some posters as disguised as "advice" It's not helpful just nasty.

Phrases like 'call a spade a spade' and 'tell it as it is' are also euphanisms for being rude, whoever uses them.

@AllThePogs

Yes like that so-called MN stock phrase - Did you mean to be so rude?

If I was asked that I would just say yes.

It's obviously not going to work on someone who tells you to fuck off, but to the type of person who gives the sly dig hidden within a compliment in front of an audience it's perfect.

Are you always this touchy OP?

I think it’s because our culture is so non confrontational.

crazyjinglist: Hmmm. It's sounding as if the OP has a bit of a chip on their shoulder. 'I can insult people and express my annoyance however I like. Anyone who does so in different language to me is a raging snob.'
.............
I thought the same. There is so much defensiveness.

@MrsTerryPratchett

It's not classed based. Speaking as someone who is regularly insulted at work there are a LOT of working class passive aggressive arseholes.

My theory is that PA behaviour comes from when your power and assertiveness isn't 'allowed'. So the prime culprits are people who have either culturally been prevented from actually speaking their minds (could be older women, trauma-impacted people, insecure men). I try to see it as a symptom of powerlessness. Those of us raised to speak our minds are lucky. We deal with it but don't have to live in their heads.

I agree, I assume I'm middle class although I could probably be classed as new money and grandparents definitely weren't MC.

I've been lucky or unlucky in some cases to meet a variety of people in my life and there's nasty people in all walks of society it has nothing to do with class or how much money you do or don't have.

I do think that accents can play a part in whether someone perceives you are passively aggressively insulting them, things sound worse in an accent closer to received pronunciation.

I've certainly been accused of saying something in a PA way when I definitely wasn't.

It used to worry me and I thought about trying to change my accent but as I've got older I've realised I have every right to sound how I do just as I support others to keep their accents.

Also when people have accused me of being PA they are usually not nice people themselves and will find anything they can have a go at others for.

We should all just go back to calling each other 'poopoo heads'. At least everyone knows where they stand then.

@crazyjinglist

My theory is that PA behaviour comes from when your power and assertiveness isn't 'allowed'. So the prime culprits are people who have either culturally been prevented from actually speaking their minds (could be older women, trauma-impacted people, insecure men). I try to see it as a symptom of powerlessness. Those of us raised to speak our minds are lucky. We deal with it but don't have to live in their heads.

Or, to look at it another way, people who have been brought up in an environment where it's not acceptable to yell and swear aggressively at others tend to find more subtle, civilised and eloquent ways of expressing their disapproval or annoyance. I'm not sure that's really a bad thing.

Tbh I’d much rather have someone being overtly angry than someone being PA. Someone who is angry and is telling you why, you can do something about it. Someone who is PA, you often don’t even know WHY they are unhappy. It’s not more civilised. And it’s still extremely aggressive.

Being more civilised is being assertive and telling others what’s on going wo resorting to ANY aggression.

I know exactly what you mean, I myself am probably lower middle class/ working class but grew up in a VERY affluent area
Now live in small market town... full of middle class passive aggressive mums

They give veiled comments if you let them....
doing well at my own business: "oh your a victim of your own success"

Look young for your age
"Must be all that Botox"

In my head I just think oh fuck off, I don't really talk to them anymore as they are very trying, but it bothers them that I don't or won't join on with their bullshit 😀😀

I agree with you.

I'm from a northern educated/middle class background. However, we are much more straightforward in our comms.

Moving down south it took me forever to work out what people meant.

I hate passive aggressive too, it makes me want to scream. Essentially it gives you no way to respond, even though you know full well what someone means by their veiled comments.

A couple of times I've confronted it, only to be told I'm imagining any insult and taking it "too personally".

My arse am I taking it too personally 😂😂😂. But you're not allowed to call it out. That's being aggressive.

So insulting people in a blunt manner is better than using veiled language I actually find blunt people very rude and not to be admired as some of you seem to think.

Sorry wrong thread have asked to be deleted.

Surround yourself with nicer people then you won't have to call them out on their insulting or patronizing behaviour.

Jeez......

Did you mean to be so rude? Is an absolutely rubbish come back. Seriously how many people have genuinely made someone squirm with that? I'm willing to bet that the most common response is 'I wasn't rude'. Conversation closed. (Though I admit to the urge to to say 'no, but I must speak frankly Mr Shankly...') A clear unambiguous 'that was rude' is much more assertive and honest.

@Suzi888

It’s snobbery.

This 100%.

I don’t mind sarcasm. I mind the superiority tone that comes with passive aggressiveness. I don’t mind having my leg pulled gently. I mind you hiding behind some flowery language rather than having the conviction of your belief and being upfront.
Because passive aggressiveness is a cowardly, not politely way of insulting someone.

Passive aggressiveness is not teasing. It’s not egging on and inviting a dialogue. It’s an ‘I take the moral high ground here by not telling you in so many words you’re not worth of a debate’. It gives a door behind one can hide after pelting shit. ‘I didn’t stoop as low as you to confront the matter, I’m merely pointing out that you wanting a straightforward dialogue or whatever it is you’re trying to achieve is way beneath me’.

It’s fascinating for a foreigner to watch.

@Ohsugarhoneyicetea

You alright hun?

You tawkin' to me, babes? Yeah I'm fine, just vague by nature.

Tbh I’d much rather have someone being overtly angry than someone being PA.

Fair enough. I wouldn't. In any case, I don't think that all non-aggressive, non-overtly-angry criticisms or insults are necessarily passive aggressive. Like someone said upthread, language is full of subtleties and there's a huge range of ways to express insults or argument. They don't all fit into the categories of either PA or openly aggressive.

If you notice the insults, they can hardly be "veiled".

@BuddhaAtSea

I don’t mind sarcasm. I mind the superiority tone that comes with passive aggressiveness. I don’t mind having my leg pulled gently. I mind you hiding behind some flowery language rather than having the conviction of your belief and being upfront. Because passive aggressiveness is a cowardly, not politely way of insulting someone.

Passive aggressiveness is not teasing. It’s not egging on and inviting a dialogue. It’s an ‘I take the moral high ground here by not telling you in so many words you’re not worth of a debate’. It gives a door behind one can hide after pelting shit. ‘I didn’t stoop as low as you to confront the matter, I’m merely pointing out that you wanting a straightforward dialogue or whatever it is you’re trying to achieve is way beneath me’.

It’s fascinating for a foreigner to watch.

Oh, this is excellent! Tae see oorsels ...

I’m not sure it’s just the middle classes. I’ve found women are more likely to use these forms of covert insults. It also seems to be part of British culture where we’ve been expected to stay polite and any direct communication is seen as rude.

I will use a proper insult but I also like PA ones for certain types of people because they’re bloody effective!
The whole point is to belittle them, make them feel small and reduce their power. For certain types of offensive people (arrogant, egotistical, know it alls etc), a PA insult is the best type to use because it’s the only kind that is guaranteed to wind them up. An outright insult or dressing down is usually shrugged off by those types.

I am, coincidentally, middle class but I really don’t see the connection myself