that school should offer lunch time detentions?

[ljs22]

Regular poster, NC for this post,

Firstly, I completely agree with the concept of detentions. If my dd (15) has done something wrong, she needs to be punished. That's fine. Thankfully she doesn't get them often - just the occasional one, usually for not doing homework on time.

But (here's the AIBU). After school detentions mean that she misses the school coach, which I pay £60 a month for to bring her home. I work 4 days a week and my partner works long and unpredictable shifts, so we are invariably not available to collect her when she has an after school detention. We have no family locally who can help out.

We also live a 40 min drive away from the school and public transport is a pain as we are in the back end of nowhere and she'd need to get 2 (sometimes 3) buses, one of which runs only every hour, so if she misses that she has a really long wait. Hence why I pay for the coach in the first place as it brings her right to the street we live on.

I've been informed today by email that she's been given an hour detention tomorrow for not doing homework. I've contacted the school to request a lunch time one instead in the circumstances.

But .. AIBU to request this? I'm not sure if I am or not, but I honestly don't know what to do. I can't take time off work to collect her from school, neither can my partner, and I don't want her stranded for ages waiting for buses either when I pay a company to bring her home for precisely that reason.

It’s a weird thread, isn’t it? It’s certainly eye opening as to how many posters have no clue what living in a rural area actually looks like and think that we can just summon Ubers at a finger snap, or drop £££s on taxi fares left right and centre, or magic up places for a teenage girl to wait safely - if this was a journey from our local secondary school, the ‘town’ would be a small market town with no chain coffee shops, just independent ones with erratic opening hours and a part time library. Nowhere that would be reliably safe and warm to wait - although I’m sure some posters would see that as no issue at all and would expect the girl to sit on a park bench in winter and all weathers as part of her punishment for the awful crime of not completing one homework question.

Nope, @Pumperthepumper 'loads of posters' didn't. Just you. We pointed out that a 40 minute taxi ride is not 'hundreds of pounds', neither is it coming out of the ops pocket, plus that the dd was old enough to earn it if she didn't have it.

@op
You stated she could be 'home' by 4.50 if the buses connect. Meaning she would catch the bus earlier than that. And that sunset was 4.45pm. So she would be catching the bus before sunset. It isn't pitch black at sunset, it remains light for a good while after that. So, she wouldn't be waiting around in the dark for an hour would she? I think some of the responses in your favour are assuming it's midnight.
Also (and I know you've decided she did nothing wrong, so this next comment assumes the detention is valid), you could just ask for five minutes less of the detention to ensure she catches the last bus.
All solutions you're choosing to dismiss because they don't fit your narrative.

It’s actually really shit that a teenager should have to ‘pay’ for a taxi as a punishment.

Repeated omissions, possibly. Being rude - maybe. One missed homework? FGS.

Too right I’d dismiss ‘solutions’ that depend on public transport being on time.

Right, I'm out. Can't be arsed banging my head against a brick wall. I'll continue to feel deeply sorry for what teachers have to put up with, and not be remotely surprised when the teaching shortage continues it's descent.

Maybe the OP could have got a discount from a taxi company if she mentioned she was a NHS worker, like she's done on here several times.

Some of the replies on here are bizarre.
Teachers aren't always amazing and sometimes their judgement and punishment is a little off and disproportionate. When I was at school I slept with a teacher after him pursuing me for a few months. When other teachers found out I was treated APPALLINGLY! Even on the day I went to get my GCSE results my headteacher said 'you shouldn't dare show your face here'. They make mistakes and here it sounds like they have, we tell our children to try their best and that's what OP's DD did.
Not moving somewhere rural just in case her daughter gets detention is also odd.
Checking homework at 15 isn't something most parents do because at 16 they can legally live alone, we sometimes have to trust them and let them make their own mistakes.
Asking for a lunchtime detention is also more than fair and instead they come back to arrange a mutually good time for both which is even better.
I also think that no punishment should ever put her safety at risk, that is completely inappropriate, she didn't answer a question in her homework, it's not like she murdered someone.

@ElevenSmiles

Maybe the OP could have got a discount from a taxi company if she mentioned she was a NHS worker, like she's done on here several times.

OP mentioned her role simply to demonstrate that she couldn't just leave work to pick up her DD. She had to mention it several times, because so many people didn't RTFT and were still telling her it was her responsibility to go and get her daughter.

No, many people said let her get a taxi.

This thread is so disheartening. No teenage girl (or even boy for that matter) should be expected to take 3 buses home, potentially missing one & having to wait for an hour, walk in the dark on rural roads with no street lighting. All for missing a question on a piece of homework!

You say it out loud & it sounds ridiculous. The school have worked with the OP moving the detention, although I don't agree detention was warranted anyway. Punishing students for struggling tbh isn't a great way to engage them. Not all students may feel comfortable asking for help either. I really struggled with my anxiety disorder at school, the peak was in Year 9 & asking for help, or going to a teacher for more clarification would have caused me to have a panic attack.

Oh, & I don't agree that punishments are a deterrent either. Many of those who bullied me & my friends were punished. Detentions even suspensions but you know what? They still continued bullying. They'd just be more sneaky & make sure to do it when no adults were around. Those who never did their homework or bothered during lessons still never did their homework or bothered during lessons no matter how many detentions they had.

@arethereanyleftatall

Right, I'm out. Can't be arsed banging my head against a brick wall. I'll continue to feel deeply sorry for what teachers have to put up with, and not be remotely surprised when the teaching shortage continues it's descent.

I find this attitude so weird and I am a teacher.

The teaching profession has all sorts of problems but kids forgetting their homework is hardly the reason teachers are on their knees!

Jesus Christ you’re unfairly getting your ass handed to you here. I wish I’d had a Mom like you when I was in school, went to a ridiculous private school and there were sanctions for fucking everything, was all a bit draconian tbh. I wish my Mom had stuck up for me a bit at times. Well done for being in your daughter’s corner. I hope the detention/homework stuff is resolved.

@arethereanyleftatall

Right, I'm out. Can't be arsed banging my head against a brick wall. I'll continue to feel deeply sorry for what teachers have to put up with, and not be remotely surprised when the teaching shortage continues it's descent.

Teachers do have to put up with a lot.

That doesn’t mean disproportionate or inappropriate punishments should just be ignored, or that parents should never ask a polite question if something doesn’t appear to add up. That’s not remotely why teachers are leaving.

EarringsandLipstick Thu 03-Feb-22 07:27:05
The same poster posting over and over again, does not count as the majority.

I think there's quite a few of us agreeing with OP's standpoint. And more who have offered a nuanced viewpoint.

Only some (repeatedly posting) have disagreed with OP (fine), attacked her parenting style (not fine) and denigrated her daughter, saying she's lazy, lying (really not acceptable).

I agree with @EarringsandLipstick who has made many good points. I am absolutely astonished at the reading comprehension (or lack of) the total fabrication of a situation to suit some posters idea and just the real meanness on this thread.

This really hurts me. I'm a new grandma (Nana actually) to two babies and if my daughter or son posted on here for advice and got ripped apart like the OP has I would be so sad. Where has decency and kindness gone?

I'm going to name a name @Graphista. I have read your normally very long posts and if I disagree I scroll on through. Why you chose this thread to pick apart comment by comment is beyond me. I'm talking generally now, what makes someone so angry that they have to lay into a mum of a teen who is also working and trying her best?

This thread really is the worst side of Mumsnet, absolutely dreadful behaviour from adults.

@ElevenSmiles

No, many people said let her get a taxi.

Aye that's going to be a cheap option. If its 3 buses and 40 mins drive.

Lord there are some idiots out in force on this thread.

@ljs22 have you asked the school to justify the detention for an unanswered question?

I wouldn't ground for 1 homework question not done either, I would have her get a taxi home and the cost would come out of her allowance and no phone privileges for the weekend.

What I WOULD ground for (and I think I made this clear in at least one previous post) is if

It turns out she hadn't done the homework at all and had merely made it appear as if she had after the detention were given because that would mean:

1 she lied

2 she really hadn't done the homework at all

If she tells me she's done all her work, I take her word for it. Generally speaking, she does. It's just certain subjects she doesn't like so she picks and chooses

I’m really looking forward to seeing your campaign to dismantle the entire justice system

but actually, nurture is a huge part of teacher training these days.

I'm thinking now you're an nqt? Or certainly not a lot of experience

Op was ignoring it because it didn't fit in with her ranty 'the school are putting her in danger by making her wait in the pitch black' (4pm 😂) narrative.

Yep

Hang on, the school email said homework not handed in, it didn't say incomplete

Exactly

We pointed out that a 40 minute taxi ride is not 'hundreds of pounds', neither is it coming out of the ops pocket, plus that the dd was old enough to earn it if she didn't have it.

Agree with this

I haven't picked apart I've responded to ops and others comments with my opinion I've also offered suggestions as to why the dd may not be doing her homework and how that may be dealt with by both op and the school inc if the issue is that she is struggling in certain subjects

But I do think consequences are an important part of parenting and that leaving discipline solely to the school is unacceptable.

If the truth is that only 1 question were unanswered and that it's been quite some time since the dd last didn't complete or do or hand in homework then a detention might be excessive

Some schools/teachers can take things too far

But - based on ops own comments - I don't believe that to be the case. This appears to be an ongoing issue and as such I can understand the school/teachers getting frustrated and yes I do think that requires the parents to look into why it's happening and take steps to prevent it happening -

This as I've said previously can include asking for the dd to be placed in different streaming, getting more support for dd in those subjects or as I've also said IF it is pure laziness/apathy then yes consequences/sanctions are necessary.

At this point the op themselves don't even know for sure if it was just one missed question or if dd filled in the homework after the detention was issued

In addition I think it matters when the homework was set and if the dd did try and complete the homework in a reasonable time and even if it were the night before it was due in and she hit a question she was stuck on why she apparently asked nobody for help.

There are several factors to consider.

I've just had a chance to check my emails. I've had a response from the teacher that confirms the homework was mostly completed with one question not done, so my DD has not lied, which I was certain of anyway.

The teacher's view is that the detention will stand regardless, as it wouldn't be fair to the students who had answered every question or approached her in advance for help, if she accepted partially completed homework.

I still don't necessarily agree that this proportionate but I'm not pursuing it further. I don't have the energy or time.

Thanks to all who posted helpful comments.

We pointed out that a 40 minute taxi ride is not 'hundreds of pounds', neither is it coming out of the ops pocket, plus that the dd was old enough to earn it if she didn't have

It might not be hundreds but it's not going to be cheap my guess £40-60 depending on boundary charges.

How would a taxi not be coming out of my pocket? My DD is 15, she's not in paid employment. The money she gets for everything comes from my pocket.

@ljs22

I've just had a chance to check my emails. I've had a response from the teacher that confirms the homework was mostly completed with one question not done, so my DD has not lied, which I was certain of anyway.

The teacher's view is that the detention will stand regardless, as it wouldn't be fair to the students who had answered every question or approached her in advance for help, if she accepted partially completed homework.

I still don't necessarily agree that this proportionate but I'm not pursuing it further. I don't have the energy or time.

Thanks to all who posted helpful comments.

That's shite! why bother doing any of the homework or next time write some nonsense even if you known its wrong.

I'd be really annoyed at the teacher and would be tempted to go higher but at the same time you don't want a teacher on a power trip being nasty to DD

@ljs22

I've just had a chance to check my emails. I've had a response from the teacher that confirms the homework was mostly completed with one question not done, so my DD has not lied, which I was certain of anyway.

The teacher's view is that the detention will stand regardless, as it wouldn't be fair to the students who had answered every question or approached her in advance for help, if she accepted partially completed homework.

I still don't necessarily agree that this proportionate but I'm not pursuing it further. I don't have the energy or time.

Thanks to all who posted helpful comments.

If your daughter had multiple days to approach the teacher then that’s fair enough.

If she didn’t then you really need to pursue it as it’s highly unfair.

I think you can ask. Mention that you are concerned for safety. But maybe offer a Saturday detention and ask if anything at home (eg grounding) could be done to supplement a lunchtime detention.

But the only other thing to do would be to check each time that she has done her homework. It’s a consequence of living rurally and not being able to trust her properly.

Well on reading your update I'd say that the punishment doesn't remotely fit the 'crime'. I wonder if that teacher has come from one of those academies where kids can get a detention for having a shoe lace undone.

But yep, OP, sometimes life's too short.

If your daughter had multiple days to approach the teacher then that’s fair enough

Yea it sounds like there was an opportunity and time to approach the teacher or even parents if there were a question she was stuck on

or approached her in advance for help

Perhaps help her work out a homework timetable or as I did have it a simple rule that homework is at least looked at the day it is issued - then she'll know if there's a stumbling block she needs help with.

It does seem a little excessive for one question but then I stand by my opinion I don't think this is as infrequent as the dd/op are making out.