that school should offer lunch time detentions?

[ljs22]

Regular poster, NC for this post,

Firstly, I completely agree with the concept of detentions. If my dd (15) has done something wrong, she needs to be punished. That's fine. Thankfully she doesn't get them often - just the occasional one, usually for not doing homework on time.

But (here's the AIBU). After school detentions mean that she misses the school coach, which I pay £60 a month for to bring her home. I work 4 days a week and my partner works long and unpredictable shifts, so we are invariably not available to collect her when she has an after school detention. We have no family locally who can help out.

We also live a 40 min drive away from the school and public transport is a pain as we are in the back end of nowhere and she'd need to get 2 (sometimes 3) buses, one of which runs only every hour, so if she misses that she has a really long wait. Hence why I pay for the coach in the first place as it brings her right to the street we live on.

I've been informed today by email that she's been given an hour detention tomorrow for not doing homework. I've contacted the school to request a lunch time one instead in the circumstances.

But .. AIBU to request this? I'm not sure if I am or not, but I honestly don't know what to do. I can't take time off work to collect her from school, neither can my partner, and I don't want her stranded for ages waiting for buses either when I pay a company to bring her home for precisely that reason.

[quote ljs22]@Pumperthepumper

Thank you for your contributions, too. I wholeheartedly agree with your stance, and I'm encouraged that there are teachers out there who do understand where I'm coming from. [/quote]

Exactly. That’s why punishment doesn’t work as a deterrent

But for the most part it does. Given warning of the consequences changes the behaviour of the outliers, leaving only the hard-core chancers. For them, and it was always the case, a quick check online would inevitably show a history of such behaviour and for some, its causes.

All these parents scrutinising their teenagers homework are setting them up for failure in later life. She's 15. In a few years she's hopefully going to be going to uni or getting a job so she needs to be responsible for herself. You can't and shouldn't be standing over a teenager checking their completing their homework.

OP, I grew up in a rural area and get your point. I got a school bus but when my brother drove me it was a huge deterrant not to make him wait around or I'd be back on public transport which was hideously unreliable and had a walk at the other end with all your books and bags.

My parents would comment if I had a detention (after school or very rarely a Saturday) but would take me if possible otherwise it was public transport.

I don't think you can ask the teachers to change the time. It's the same rules for all pupils no matter where they live I imagine. But if you think in this specific example it's unwarranted you can argue it. I would try to get her to do this herself though. She needs to learn to advocate independently.

@SunshineArtist I think most of us who are teachers would cope well enough with a reasonable email from the parent of a student who didn't complete their homework (but did what they knew how to) but lives rurally so needs detention to happen in a way that doesn't compromise the student's safety.

I'm a teacher who has sent an email to my own DC's teacher asking for clarification about a supposed after school detention. In my case, I was querying why my DC was being given one when the homework (that I had seen myself) had already been ticked off as complete by the other teacher. It's OK to ask for clarification or a bit of flexibility; teachers are humans too. I wouldn't appreciate a rude, insulting email and nor would I send one. In common with @ljs22 I am spat at, bitten, punched etc although by the children I teach rather than an NHS setting. The emails are definitely preferable.

Yanbu. I’m not saying teachers should give up their lunchbreak, I’m saying they should find a method of discipline that only affects the one being punished not their family.

Actually the legal power to give detention is limited and the school HAS to consider whether the parent can reasonably get the child home. Have a look here OP:

dera.ioe.ac.uk/8768/1/Detention%20Guidance%20DP%20Behaviour%20(text).doc

Eg
“Parents and carers objecting to a detention should present the relevant facts for the school to take into account. Examples of such facts should be
a. that the detention is on a day of religious observance for the family;
b. concern about the length and safety of the walking route between the school and the child’s home; or
c. the need for transport home if the parent cannot collect the child that day or make reasonable alternative arrangements.

1. The detention could be revoked altogether or deferred because of the parent’s representations”

“ Detentions may only be imposed by a head teacher or another teacher specifically or generally authorised to do so. They should take account of:
a. the child’s age;

b. any special educational needs;

c. any religious requirements; and

d. whether the parent can reasonably arrange for a child to get home from school after the detention”

@echt

Exactly. That’s why punishment doesn’t work as a deterrent

But for the most part it does. Given warning of the consequences changes the behaviour of the outliers, leaving only the hard-core chancers. For them, and it was always the case, a quick check online would inevitably show a history of such behaviour and for some, its causes.

What kind of causes?

And what is a ‘hard core chancer’?

@EarringsandLipstick
A taxi home and my 15yo dd paying for it is exactly what I'd do, if I wasn't comfortable with the bus option. Like umpteen others on this thread have repeatedly suggested. About £50 for a forty minute ride, if she hasn't got £50, one night of babysitting will fix that.

What kind of causes?

It varied. I have only taught in one school in Australia and cannot identify anything that could conceivably lead back to my school and to to individual students.

A) I agree with OP you cannot actually make a 15 year old do their homework and spending your life nagging about it is a good way to make you both miserable.

B) no way I would let a 15 year old do that journey including waiting around for hours alone in the dark. That is plainly unsafe. Even if a child makes poor choices as regards school work they still deserve to be safe.

C) schools do sometimes give out punishments for very minor things, and some teachers really don't listen when kids try to explain why something hasn't been done etc. Sometimes a reason is a reason not an excuse and some teachers don't bother to listen to find out which it is.

D) school cannot make a child stay for detention and so if they will not compromise then you just say, well sorry she can't do it then.

@Pumperthepumper

And what is a ‘hard core chancer’?

Pupils who try it on for the shits and giggles.

@SunshineArtist

God, you're obsessed with this point!

Because it’s the whole point. 😂 She didn’t do as requested. And if a detention doesn’t motivate her to get help next time to avoid another, then she’s going to have problems going forward.

I can see why it might not work with her mother being immature and pedantic though, not exactly a great example on doing as you’re asked, learning from mistakes and moving on.

Anyway, as this is like arguing with children, I’m out. 😴 💤

What a horrible post. 😡

Is there any need to demean someone and their parenting approach as you've done here?

You've absolutely refused to consider any other point of view.

I cannot understand how you think harsh punishments that lack nuance act as a motivator. It doesn't work for anyone.

And then you decide to finish by deriding all the posters who disagree with you.

@echt

What kind of causes?

It varied. I have only taught in one school in Australia and cannot identify anything that could conceivably lead back to my school and to to individual students.

That’s a shame. I would have liked to have heard about how punishments at school made their home life better.

Pupils who try it on for the shits and giggles.

And still can’t be broken by the all-powerful Friday night detention?

[quote arethereanyleftatall]@EarringsandLipstick
A taxi home and my 15yo dd paying for it is exactly what I'd do, if I wasn't comfortable with the bus option. Like umpteen others on this thread have repeatedly suggested. About £50 for a forty minute ride, if she hasn't got £50, one night of babysitting will fix that. [/quote]
I imagine it would be considerably more than £50.

Additionally my DD is nearly 15. She doesn't babysit & wouldn't have access to that kind of money.

However, the school weren't requiring this, thankfully, as they were happy to rearrange the date.

Imagine, any school who blithely thought a pupil should just get a taxi to a rural area, as an instant solution!

The schools not there to improve their home life. Their parents sign up to the school's rules.

[quote SE13Mummy]@SunshineArtist I think most of us who are teachers would cope well enough with a reasonable email from the parent of a student who didn't complete their homework (but did what they knew how to) but lives rurally so needs detention to happen in a way that doesn't compromise the student's safety.

I'm a teacher who has sent an email to my own DC's teacher asking for clarification about a supposed after school detention. In my case, I was querying why my DC was being given one when the homework (that I had seen myself) had already been ticked off as complete by the other teacher. It's OK to ask for clarification or a bit of flexibility; teachers are humans too. I wouldn't appreciate a rude, insulting email and nor would I send one. In common with @ljs22 I am spat at, bitten, punched etc although by the children I teach rather than an NHS setting. The emails are definitely preferable.[/quote]

Im sorry you experience abuse in the workplace too.

@echt

The schools not there to improve their home life. Their parents sign up to the school's rules.

Are you still a teacher? Or are you referring to some limited past experience?

Perhaps as a person you're lovely - no reason to think not - but how you portray yourself as a teacher sounds truly awful.

@echt

The schools not there to improve their home life. Their parents sign up to the school's rules.

The school is also not there to make their already difficult lives more difficult.

Did you never feel any empathy for these children who had ‘cause’ to behave badly yet were still punished? All so staff could congratulate you for upholding school rules as you supervised detention on a Friday night when you could have been out with your friends?

@ljs22 it's a specialist setting and is mostly an anxiety response. Doesn't mean I wouldn't prefer an email though!

@Pumperthepumper

Also, my life as a teacher is made infinitely easier by not handing out pointless punishments to children who won’t learn anything from it anyway.

This entirely.

How to put a kid off even trying if they know being unable to answer one question results in detention.

@echt

The schools not there to improve their home life. Their parents sign up to the school's rules.

The school should be working jointly with parents, so home life is entirely relevant. What about pastoral teams? Safeguarding teams? They all have a need to be aware of a pupil's home lives, surely?

@echt

Exactly. That’s why punishment doesn’t work as a deterrent

But for the most part it does. Given warning of the consequences changes the behaviour of the outliers, leaving only the hard-core chancers. For them, and it was always the case, a quick check online would inevitably show a history of such behaviour and for some, its causes.

Some people have an interests based brain. I certainly do. I wasn't a chancer, I just couldn't engage with things that didn't interest me. It's pretty common. I excelled at what I was interested in but the punishments came when I couldn't engage with what I wasn't interested in. Did it change anything? Absolutely not because it's the way my brain is wired. Still now, in my 30s, it'sthe same. If I'm not interested I simply will not do something or I will avoid it. This is why I have to have a varied job that is based on my interest.

Are you still a teacher? Or are you referring to some limited past experience? Perhaps as a person you're lovely - no reason to think not - but how you portray yourself as a teacher sounds truly awful

I taught for 43 years in 9 different schools/colleges. I stick to the facts. If you find this awful, then take some responsibility for your own opinion., why don't you?