Page 26 | that school should offer lunch time detentions?

Pumperthepumper · 02/02/2022 22:43

@echt

Any member of staff from a school that thinks this is a reasonable punishment given the circumstances should change career's asap as working in a school isn't for them. Nor is anything regarding child safety

Taxi. Sorted.

Money. Not sorted.

Original poster

ljs22 · 02/02/2022 22:44

@SunshineArtist

How the fuck do teachers cope? As if they don’t have enough issues with some kids, they have to deal with parents like this.

Yes, they have to deal with parents who - politely and articulately - express concerns via email for their child's safety; and ask for a rationale for a punishment when the evidence seems to contraindicate the need for punishment.

How do they cope?

In contrast, I'm often spat at, sworn at, and threatened with violence in my workplace. For offering to help someone who is on the verge of killing themselves.

I think I'd rather be a teacher replying to that email, to be honest ...

OP posts:

Pumperthepumper · 02/02/2022 22:46

Also, my life as a teacher is made infinitely easier by not handing out pointless punishments to children who won’t learn anything from it anyway.

echt · 02/02/2022 22:46

But knowing them well means knowing what their home life is like, if they’ve eaten that day, if they have beds to sleep in. And as we know, that’s what affects their behaviour

Don't be silly. It would be entirely wrong to quiz a child about this. In my last school, all special circumstances were flagged up on the electronic role, so teachers knew in advance any issues. Teachers cannot run class based on being second-guessed.

echt · 02/02/2022 22:47

Jesus, typos!

echt · 02/02/2022 22:48

Money. Not sorted

Has the OP pleaded this?

Original poster

ljs22 · 02/02/2022 22:48

[quote MrsR87]@ljs22
No because the majority had been attempted. I would have asked pupil to come back at break time so I could go through it with them and then if appropriate get them to have another go with an extended deadline.[/quote]

Then you are a reasonable and good teacher in my view.

OP posts:

Pumperthepumper · 02/02/2022 22:49

@echt

But knowing them well means knowing what their home life is like, if they’ve eaten that day, if they have beds to sleep in. And as we know, that’s what affects their behaviour

Don't be silly. It would be entirely wrong to quiz a child about this. In my last school, all special circumstances were flagged up on the electronic role, so teachers knew in advance any issues. Teachers cannot run class based on being second-guessed.

You said you handed out punishments to children you didn’t know well, on cover lessons.

I’m suggesting that’s shitty behaviour because you didn’t know them well enough to know what was causing that behaviour. There’s nothing silly about that, it’s basic common sense.

Pumperthepumper · 02/02/2022 22:50

@echt

Money. Not sorted

Has the OP pleaded this?

Yes.

But also, you can use logic. They live a forty minute drive from the school. Around here that’d set you back around £120. How likely is it a fifteen year old has that cash?

Original poster

ljs22 · 02/02/2022 22:50

[quote EarringsandLipstick]@ljs22

I'm really impressed you've stuck around & continued to respond, despite the amount of posters attacking you, DD, your parenting style, life choices ... and so on!

I think disagreeing with OP is one thing & fair enough ... but the gratuitous attacks are another. OP has been at pains to say she supports the school, supports consequences, would like her DD ideally to not put herself in these situations & makes that clear ... but she expects consequences to be reasonable & fair. What's wrong with that? 🤷🏻‍♀️ [/quote]

Your posts have been balanced and sensible - a voice of reason. Thank you

OP posts:

SunshineArtist · 02/02/2022 22:50

No issue with you requesting the detention date was changed so that your daughter wasn’t travelling alone when dark. It’s a reasonable request that the school was fine with. If they hadn’t, I’d have said the school were unreasonable.

But, the homework was to complete all the questions and your daughter didn’t. The punishment for not completing homework is detention. It’s as simple as that. She could have asked you for help or gone you see the teacher but she didn’t so the detention needs to be done. Next time, she’ll ask for help hopefully so it will have served it’s purpose.

redbigbananafeet · 02/02/2022 22:51

@ljs22

Regular poster, NC for this post,

Firstly, I completely agree with the concept of detentions. If my dd (15) has done something wrong, she needs to be punished. That's fine. Thankfully she doesn't get them often - just the occasional one, usually for not doing homework on time.

But (here's the AIBU). After school detentions mean that she misses the school coach, which I pay £60 a month for to bring her home. I work 4 days a week and my partner works long and unpredictable shifts, so we are invariably not available to collect her when she has an after school detention. We have no family locally who can help out.

We also live a 40 min drive away from the school and public transport is a pain as we are in the back end of nowhere and she'd need to get 2 (sometimes 3) buses, one of which runs only every hour, so if she misses that she has a really long wait. Hence why I pay for the coach in the first place as it brings her right to the street we live on.

I've been informed today by email that she's been given an hour detention tomorrow for not doing homework. I've contacted the school to request a lunch time one instead in the circumstances.

But .. AIBU to request this? I'm not sure if I am or not, but I honestly don't know what to do. I can't take time off work to collect her from school, neither can my partner, and I don't want her stranded for ages waiting for buses either when I pay a company to bring her home for precisely that reason.

And which member of staff do you want to give up their hour lunch break to save you the hour at the end of the day?

EarringsandLipstick · 02/02/2022 22:51

@Pumperthepumper

Also, my life as a teacher is made infinitely easier by not handing out pointless punishments to children who won’t learn anything from it anyway.

👏👏 well said.

Pumperthepumper · 02/02/2022 22:52

The one who set the pointless detention in the first place? The adult making that decision?

mummykel16 · 02/02/2022 22:52

@echt

Any member of staff from a school that thinks this is a reasonable punishment given the circumstances should change career's asap as working in a school isn't for them. Nor is anything regarding child safety

Taxi. Sorted.

For the staff that quit, sounds good.

echt · 02/02/2022 22:53

You said you handed out punishments to children you didn’t know well, on cover lessons. I’m suggesting that’s shitty behaviour because you didn’t know them well enough to know what was causing that behaviour. There’s nothing silly about that, it’s basic common sense

Read my post. You plainly have no idea how badly some children behave with a teacher they don't "know". That's what rules are for, for equity. However shitty you may think it, I was fully backed up by management who praised my persistence and willingness to put myself at inconvenience to uphold the school's rules.

EarringsandLipstick · 02/02/2022 22:53

@echt

Money. Not sorted

Has the OP pleaded this?

Ok, so I did read correctly. You believe a sensible solution is for DD to get a taxi home?

Seriously.

echt · 02/02/2022 22:53

No. For her parent to arrange it.

EarringsandLipstick · 02/02/2022 22:53

Your posts have been balanced and sensible - a voice of reason. Thank you

💐💐

mummykel16 · 02/02/2022 22:54

@echt

Any member of staff from a school that thinks this is a reasonable punishment given the circumstances should change career's asap as working in a school isn't for them. Nor is anything regarding child safety

Taxi. Sorted.

You couldn't have meant for the child as her parent has already arranged and paid for one for her

Pumperthepumper · 02/02/2022 22:55

@echt

You said you handed out punishments to children you didn’t know well, on cover lessons. I’m suggesting that’s shitty behaviour because you didn’t know them well enough to know what was causing that behaviour. There’s nothing silly about that, it’s basic common sense

Read my post. You plainly have no idea how badly some children behave with a teacher they don't "know". That's what rules are for, for equity. However shitty you may think it, I was fully backed up by management who praised my persistence and willingness to put myself at inconvenience to uphold the school's rules.

Oh, I absolutely do. But punishing them after that behaviour won’t have changed the fact it has already happened. And especially punishing children when you have no idea of what they’ve been through that morning, because you don’t know them well enough, is particularly shitty behaviour. Glad you got your pat on the back from the other adults though.

echt · 02/02/2022 22:57

Oh, I absolutely do. But punishing them after that behaviour won’t have changed the fact it has already happened. And especially punishing children when you have no idea of what they’ve been through that morning, because you don’t know them well enough, is particularly shitty behaviour

Punishment, by its nature, is always after the fact.

Glad you got your pat on the back from the other adults though

Thank you

EarringsandLipstick · 02/02/2022 22:57

But, the homework was to complete all the questions and your daughter didn’t. The punishment for not completing homework is detention. It’s as simple as that. She could have asked you for help or gone you see the teacher but she didn’t so the detention needs to be done. Next time, she’ll ask for help hopefully so it will have served it’s purpose.

God, you're obsessed with this point!

Really? Do you think a detention for not completing one part of the homework is likely to motivate a student?

It won't.

The same way if you in your workplace had tried your best at a task. Didn't fully complete it & perhaps miscommunicated where you could have approached it differently. If you got penalised or sanctioned, you'd most likely feel it was unfair, you'd be demotivated & I'd be amazed if it had a transformative effect on your next task.

Schools & teachers need to support students. Sanctions have their role too, but not in a heavy handed way.

Pumperthepumper · 02/02/2022 22:57

@echt

Oh, I absolutely do. But punishing them after that behaviour won’t have changed the fact it has already happened. And especially punishing children when you have no idea of what they’ve been through that morning, because you don’t know them well enough, is particularly shitty behaviour

Punishment, by its nature, is always after the fact.

Glad you got your pat on the back from the other adults though

Thank you

Exactly. That’s why punishment doesn’t work as a deterrent.

Original poster

ljs22 · 02/02/2022 22:59

@Pumperthepumper

Thank you for your contributions, too. I wholeheartedly agree with your stance, and I'm encouraged that there are teachers out there who do understand where I'm coming from.

OP posts: