To have a child knowing they’ll spend 4 or 5 days in nursery?

[mvmvmvmv]

AIBU to have a child knowing they’d likely be in nursery 4 days a week after my maternity, and likely going to 5 days a week by age 3? Is it unreasonable to have a child knowing they will need to spend so much time in nursery? Is it cruel?

We have zero family nearby, and family finances mean we both pretty much need to work full time (one of us could drop to 4 days for a year).

I don’t want to use a nanny or au pair as I’d want my child to have social interaction with other kids. There are v few childminders near us so unlikely to be an option. The local nursery is very good tho.

Well it can be a man looking after a baby, but a man doesn't need to recover from birth and he certainly can't breastfeed.

That didn't answer the question!!

@SpinsForGin I didn't say everyone but a lot of my full time working friends, have a lot more luxuries than we do... Meal boxes, Sky tv, two expensive cars, music subscriptions, takeaways and wouldn't think twice about buying a daily costa coffee.

I have only just gone back this year to PT work after 5 years SAHM.

[quote chunkyBUTTsdonotlie]@SpinsForGin I didn't say everyone but a lot of my full time working friends, have a lot more luxuries than we do... Meal boxes, Sky tv, two expensive cars, music subscriptions, takeaways and wouldn't think twice about buying a daily costa coffee.

I have only just gone back this year to PT work after 5 years SAHM. [/quote]
And?
Not everyone wants to cut back and that is their choice.

It's also not always that easy to get back into work after a 5 year break. It would be career suicide for me to take an extended break and that wasn't something I was prepared to sacrifice. That doesn't make me a bad parent!

@Joystir59

I know loads of families do this but I'm not sure why? Why do you want a child?

Because some women have careers that make a significant contribution to society. I know, shocking!!

Summary: a woman needs to choose between a career and having a child?!? Is this the 1950s. I feel sorry for women who limit themselves in this way but do what you like.

[quote chunkyBUTTsdonotlie]@SpinsForGin I didn't say everyone but a lot of my full time working friends, have a lot more luxuries than we do... Meal boxes, Sky tv, two expensive cars, music subscriptions, takeaways and wouldn't think twice about buying a daily costa coffee.

I have only just gone back this year to PT work after 5 years SAHM. [/quote]
What is your job?

@MongoOnlyPawnInGameOfLife you must be kidding. This thread is full of SAHM who are making baseless and speculative statements about nurseries when by definition they don’t use them. Either those women don’t have serious jobs, or are wealthy to the extend that they can afford to stay home. I am both, and I still choose a career. I feel sorry for women who might give up their careers because they think they need to in order to be good mothers. That is utter internalised misogynism bullshit.

@Aaaabbbcccc I do consultancy. I did this for a long time before Dc too. I am charging the same rate as before, but of course if I hadn't had time out for Dc I would of probably been charging more per day by now.

As an aside my best friend was a PA/ EA in financial services and had 4 years out and returned to the same company at the same level. So it's possible.

I feel sorry for women who might give up their careers because they think they need to in order to be good mothers. That is utter internalised misogynism bullshit.

There is a lot of truth in this.
I research and write about women's career development as part of my job and we know that societal expectations play a huge part in the decisions women make in relation to their career both PRE and POST children.
Even before they've had children many women will make career choices that are likely to fit around having children in the future - so they'll choose sectors that offer flexible and part time working. Men categorically do not do this.
Women are also more likely to work part time after having children and this is due, in part, to societal expectations around childcare.....other factors such as finances also play a part but we shouldn't ignore the influence of societal pressure and expectations.

[quote chunkyBUTTsdonotlie]@Aaaabbbcccc I do consultancy. I did this for a long time before Dc too. I am charging the same rate as before, but of course if I hadn't had time out for Dc I would of probably been charging more per day by now.

As an aside my best friend was a PA/ EA in financial services and had 4 years out and returned to the same company at the same level. So it's possible.
[/quote]
But often very difficult and we need to be honest with women about this.
For many sectors/jobs you will not be walking back into the job you had 5 years ago and I know that for a fact because I see this data and speak to women returners frequently.

[quote Aaaabbbcccc]@MongoOnlyPawnInGameOfLife you must be kidding. This thread is full of SAHM who are making baseless and speculative statements about nurseries when by definition they don’t use them. Either those women don’t have serious jobs, or are wealthy to the extend that they can afford to stay home. I am both, and I still choose a career. I feel sorry for women who might give up their careers because they think they need to in order to be good mothers. That is utter internalised misogynism bullshit.[/quote]
I don't think you have to have used a nursery in order to have an opinion on it, just like I don't need to be buy from Amazon or go to McDonalds to have an opinion on those - it's ridiculous to try and claim otherwise.

For some people it isn't a choice that both parents work, but for others it most definitely is so to present it as something only the wealthiest can do is pure bullshit.

Why are you so upset that someone has made a different choice to you? Why do you feel the need to portay mums who make the choice to stay at home as pathetic tools of the patriarchy rather than simply women doing what they want to do?

[quote Aaaabbbcccc]@MongoOnlyPawnInGameOfLife you must be kidding. This thread is full of SAHM who are making baseless and speculative statements about nurseries when by definition they don’t use them. Either those women don’t have serious jobs, or are wealthy to the extend that they can afford to stay home. I am both, and I still choose a career. I feel sorry for women who might give up their careers because they think they need to in order to be good mothers. That is utter internalised misogynism bullshit.[/quote]
Tbh I think it's the opposite of misogyny to say that raising children is even more worthwhile than paid work. It's not very capitalist though.

Also no one is saying the career needs to be given up completely, just that if possible, it would be preferable to dial it down for a few years. And I think men should do this just as much as women.

Some careers can’t be dialled down. DH and I are a doctor and an accountant.

We didn’t need or want to dial back our careers. We managed twins and careers without family living in the U.K.

I don't think you have to have used a nursery in order to have an opinion on it, just like I don't need to be buy from Amazon or go to McDonalds to have an opinion on those - it's ridiculous to try and claim otherwise

The thing is lots of people on here demonise nurseries but don't actually have experience of using one, they are just going on hearsay. How is that helping other people to make an informed decision?

I have no personal connection to Amazon or McDonald's, but sending my child to nursery is a very emotional decision, and it's frustrating when people slate nurseries when they have absolutely no experience of using them.

Maybe try a childminder for a more homely environment, and to receive lots more nurturing x

Er, no? DD has been in nursery full time since she turned 12 months. It helps that it's a great nursery and she loves it but also, to be honest, we're happier too. My mother was a very unhappy SAHM, which had a very detrimental impact during my childhood, and there's no way I'd put myself and my child through that just to match up to some notion of how to parent that plenty of people no longer adhere to anyway. Though NB. if you actually think it's cruel and feel guilt about it your child might well pick up on that, which will make it harder.

@WhoIsBernieBrown

I don't think you have to have used a nursery in order to have an opinion on it, just like I don't need to be buy from Amazon or go to McDonalds to have an opinion on those - it's ridiculous to try and claim otherwise

The thing is lots of people on here demonise nurseries but don't actually have experience of using one, they are just going on hearsay. How is that helping other people to make an informed decision?

I have no personal connection to Amazon or McDonald's, but sending my child to nursery is a very emotional decision, and it's frustrating when people slate nurseries when they have absolutely no experience of using them.

And that's the problem. I don't really see anyone here demonising nurseries, but when the subject is so emotive any criticism or negative opinion, no matter how moderate, is taken overly personally (understandably really).

I don't think it's fair to say that it is all based on 'hearsay' either - there are plenty of sources, some good, some bad, where you can find out a lot about nursery education and its benefits and negatives.

It's also more than possible that some of the people here have tried it and therefore do have first hand experience (and therefore are maybe more able to claim to see both sides than those who have never been SAHMs).

I don't think it helps anyone when people are just shouting at each other and implying they are either terrible mothers or patriarchy apologists for the choices they have made, as some here are doing (not you WhoIsBernieBrown).

Recovering from childbirth and breastfeeding can easily be achieved with the timeframe of maternity leave. Virtually nobody needs to take years to do these things.

Joystir do you realise its damn near impossible to buy a home (or rent one which will accommodate a family) on one income these days?

Willing to bet Joystir is older and hasnt realised that few families can afford a SAHP now. The ones that do are often either exceptionally wealthy, or conversely are reliant on benefits to do so - not a choice I would make willingly, that rug could be pulled away at any time under this government.

Also no one is saying the career needs to be given up completely, just that if possible, it would be preferable to dial it down for a few years. And I think men should do this just as much as women.

There are a few issues with this which often have a negative impact on women.
It's not always possible to dial down a career. It's certainly not possible in my sector unless I'm happy with not progressing or getting promoted at any point in the future.

If you work in a sector like mine (academia) where progress and promotion is directly linked to output ( publications) and income generation then working part time works against you as it's difficult enough to do it while working full time!
Stepping back from my career would harm my prospects of promotion for years if not indefinitely.

The problem with saying you'd expect men to do the same is ignoring one key fact. Most families can't afford for the male partner to step back because they are, more often than not, the higher earner.
There are also the societal expectations at play which can make it challenging for a man to work part time as often organisations don't support it in the way they should.

@SpinsForGin

Also no one is saying the career needs to be given up completely, just that if possible, it would be preferable to dial it down for a few years. And I think men should do this just as much as women.

There are a few issues with this which often have a negative impact on women.
It's not always possible to dial down a career. It's certainly not possible in my sector unless I'm happy with not progressing or getting promoted at any point in the future.

If you work in a sector like mine (academia) where progress and promotion is directly linked to output ( publications) and income generation then working part time works against you as it's difficult enough to do it while working full time!
Stepping back from my career would harm my prospects of promotion for years if not indefinitely.

The problem with saying you'd expect men to do the same is ignoring one key fact. Most families can't afford for the male partner to step back because they are, more often than not, the higher earner.
There are also the societal expectations at play which can make it challenging for a man to work part time as often organisations don't support it in the way they should.

You have literally quoted me saying if possible . I agree that it is not the cultural norm for men to do this but it should be and women should not be letting their male partners opt out. If a man wants children he should at least consider what he is going to do to look after them.

I believe the pay gap between men and women pre-children is closing so hopefully this will be less of an issue in deciding which career gets dialled down. Imo the best option is both partners going to 3 or 4 days if possible. This is more tax efficient than one person giving up work completely.

Providing a home and food and clothes takes money. That needs to be warned and I don't know many jobs that facilitates children going along! Showing a child a work ethic and how the world works is a positive thing. Your child will be loved and cared for and educated in nursery or a childminder setting. You will have evenings and bath time and weekends and holidays to make the memories and you will be able to make them the best because you can afford to do nice things together.
Sometimes staying home 24/7 isn't great especially if finances are tight or parents are not providing live and care.

SarahBasil. I was offering some context as to why it's not always possible!
It's my job to research this 😀

Same situation here OP. No family support - it's paid childcare or nothing. I went back after mat leave stopped at 6 months. My DH took the other six months, then both of mine were in nursery and then preschool full time. Needs must and the time we do spend together is very special. I was lucky enough when my second was born to request and get term time working. So I work full time while they are in school and have the holidays off.
Both children thrived in nursery - they are 6 and 10 very much loved and wanted and they both know how very important they are to us. They are our world - we just don't have the choice to be able to live off one wage.

Also, it’s not just the case that it’s acceptable if you need 2 salaries. What if you don’t but both parents want to work?

It’s also fool-hardy for most people to put themselves in a position of reliance on a single salary unless needs must. Years ago when job security was better and there were more jobs arounds, it was less risky.

These days, there is far more competition and contracts are less secure (zero hours for example). Most people, if they lose their job, won’t be able to find something else immediately. It puts a massive strain on circumstances that isn’t there to the same extent if there are two income streams.

Some people might see that taking financial responsibility for their children, is being the best mother to them. Others might think that pinning your own and their survival on the goodwill of a man, is less than ideal.