Boris - new low

[daimbarsatemydogsbone]

Obviously he's running scared from his own side as well and Labour and the excellent contribution from Ian Blackford - no doubt Dennis Skinner would have done the same if still an MP.

However, there was no need for Johnson to stoop to the level of more lies - this time trying smear Kier Starmer with untrue allegations about Jimmy Savile.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/60213975

Unpleasant and uncomfortable as that is MorningStarling this is what UK politics has descended to. The muckraking 'play the man not the ball' style personal politics of the USA has been here a while.

But I expect that will, again, erroneously have me labelled a, what was it? Bozbot?

But the parlous state of UK politics doesn't start or stop with Johnson. It is well exemplified by him at the moment, but he isn't the only self serving, truth avoiding gobshite across all of the parties.

We need to stop talking about him as though there is an alternative to vote for. If there was I would do it and not, for the third time in my life spoil my ballot.

Can we have a term with no official leader? Just a general coalition of equal members?

Boris doesn’t seem to be able to stop lying. He says he wasn’t at a party but evidence is available to show he was. (What are the consequences of lying in the House?). The quicker the police report is released the better and he will be forced out!

@MorningStarling

Starmer can't claim that the PM is responsible for the actions of staff at No. 10 whilst simultaneously arguing that he wasn't responsible for the actions of the CPS whilst in charge of it.

Either the buck stops with the man at the top or it doesn't.

In any case, Starmer has repeatedly tried to tie in Johnson's "partying" with images of grieving relatives, suggesting Johnson was partying whilst others were mourning, implying he was laughing at them. Johnson trying to link Starmer with the decision to allow Savile to escape prosecution, indeed Starmer's actions leading Savile to commit further offences, well that's just Johnson using the same tactics.

You aren't comparing like with like at all.

As for
Starmer has repeatedly tried to tie in Johnson's "partying" with images of grieving relatives, suggesting Johnson was partying whilst others were mourning, implying he was laughing at them.

He doesn't have to try very hard does he? It's pretty clear this is exactly what Boris and his chums were doing.
It's not remotely comparable - not least because Starmer hasn't been telling lots of lies about it and everything else.

As another survivor of historical CSA, I’m disgusted by the way Johnson brought up Savile in an attempt to score political points. Especially since it isn’t as if he even cares about victims of historical abuse, is it? If he’d had his way, none of these crimes would be investigated.

It's a Trump style tactic to detract from his own failures. Not currently relevant, but a nice jibe for Tories to conduct some whataboutism.

@Parker231

Boris doesn’t seem to be able to stop lying. He says he wasn’t at a party but evidence is available to show he was. (What are the consequences of lying in the House?). The quicker the police report is released the better and he will be forced out!

Depends again entirely on the actual words he used when he said he wasn't at any arty. That's why he weaseled with 'gatherings' and 'as far as I am aware' etc. He will have practised not making unambiguous statements. People like to think he is a bumbling idiot, but he rarely missteps when it could actually bite him on the arse.

The report will be released, extended, whatever, once the Met has completed its investigation...

@SamphiretheStickerist

Unpleasant and uncomfortable as that is MorningStarling this is what UK politics has descended to. The muckraking 'play the man not the ball' style personal politics of the USA has been here a while.

But I expect that will, again, erroneously have me labelled a, what was it? Bozbot?

But the parlous state of UK politics doesn't start or stop with Johnson. It is well exemplified by him at the moment, but he isn't the only self serving, truth avoiding gobshite across all of the parties.

We need to stop talking about him as though there is an alternative to vote for. If there was I would do it and not, for the third time in my life spoil my ballot.

Can we have a term with no official leader? Just a general coalition of equal members?

the parlous state of UK politics doesn't start or stop with Johnson. It is well exemplified by him at the moment, but he isn't the only self serving, truth avoiding gobshite across all of the parties. This bit I agree with - but there are also a lot of decent MPs all over the H of C. We need to stop talking about him as though there is an alternative to vote for. This bit is nonsense - of course there's an alternative. If there was I would do it and not, for the third time in my life spoil my ballot. If you are talking about a General Election, we aren't due one for a while. Can we have a term with no official leader? Just a general coalition of equal members? No, even our shaky unwritten constitution wouldn't really support that.

I'm sitting here watching PMQ's. I have never seen such stupid shite in all my life.
A bunch of men and women sitting shouting and cheering at each other. Every one of them should get off their arse and do a 12 hr shift in a manual job.
The UK government are a joke.

@ParkheadParadise

I'm sitting here watching PMQ's. I have never seen such stupid shite in all my life. A bunch of men and women sitting shouting and cheering at each other. Every one of them should get off their arse and do a 12 hr shift in a manual job. The UK government are a joke.

Terrible isn't? chanting "more more" like drunks at a strip show.

Speaker Hoyle useless as ever, repeated warnings to expel ignored.

In any case, Starmer has repeatedly tried to tie in Johnson's "partying" with images of grieving relatives, suggesting Johnson was partying whilst others were mourning, implying he was laughing at them.

That is exactly how it feels to many of us who lost loved ones. It feels like he, and the smug MPs that refer to him as a 'hero', are laughing at us.

indeed Starmer's actions leading Savile to commit further offences

That literally did not happen.

@ParkheadParadise

I'm sitting here watching PMQ's. I have never seen such stupid shite in all my life. A bunch of men and women sitting shouting and cheering at each other. Every one of them should get off their arse and do a 12 hr shift in a manual job. The UK government are a joke.

I don't know why they don't just sit quietly until its their turn to speak. If I behaved like that in a meeting I'd get a disciplinary.

I have to say the Tories are exceptionally see through today. The Con MP who criticised Labour in Manchester literally received a pat of the back when he was finished with his question. Clearly told by whips what to say and when to say it.

@Alexandra2001

Well, you're wrong that no-one is disputing that because someone on this thread has done precisely that. Some people may well have drawn an incorrect inference. But it's not unreasonable in political discourse to hold an organisation's Head accountable for the failures of that organisation. I thought it was pathetic that Johnson tried to sidestep criticisms by raising this, but what he said was not a lie

Starmer held a QC led inquiry many years ago, apologised at the time, so its done and dusted.
Why not hold BJ to account for the highest number of CV deaths in Europe? failing to protect children from drug and sex abuse? failing to get the Met's house in order? even extending Dicks contract! failing to stop £13 billion in fraud and waste? failing to increase the rape conviction rates?

Nope, lets distract onto something that happened over a decade ago & isn't even true.

Oh, so he was responsible now? You really need to get your story straight. It was pathetic for Johnson to use this as a comeback but don't lie about what happened.

This bit is nonsense - of course there's an alternative.

WHO? Seripsuly, party of individual possible leader. Who is there that is in any way electabel in any of the parties?

If you are talking about a General Election, we aren't due one for a while.

I know, I am trying to get my head round there being nobody, no party, no signs of any manifesto that I could get behind. 2 - 3 years isn't that long for an entirely new political geography to be built.

No, even our shaky unwritten constitution wouldn't really support that.

Pity. I could persuade myself to vote for actual chaos!

Jesus H! Apologies for the abysmal typing there.

WHO? Seripsuly, party of individual possible leader. Who is there that is in any way electabel in any of the parties?

WHO? Seriously any party or any individual possible leader. Who is there that is in any way electable, anywhere?

It's a shocking lie and he knows it. Distraction tactics from from the arrogant law-breaking parties and the billions written off in PPE procurement which, coincidentally, also came to light yesterday.

Depends again entirely on the actual words he used when he said he wasn't at any arty. That's why he weaseled with 'gatherings' and 'as far as I am aware' etc. He will have practised not making unambiguous statements. People like to think he is a bumbling idiot, but he rarely missteps when it could actually bite him on the arse.
I agree the bumbling fool is an act BUT he's also very slapdash at times - his Peppa Pig World speech and his disastrous intervention in the Nazarin Zagari- Ratcliffe case just as a couple of examples from a cast of thousands.

The way boris phrased it was wrong but the fact is that Keir Starmer was head of the CPS when they failed to bring jimmy savile to justice while he was alive! Keir starmer was also head of a CPS that refused to prosecute Asian grooming gangs because they didn't want to be seen as racist. All info is widely available on the internet. The simple fact is that when you are in charge the buck stops with you! Boris is a twat but having met Keir starmer in a work capacity i can happily say he's really not much better!

The reason it didn't get to trial was because the police failed so surely the buck should stop with the Cheif Constable.

Without being partisan about it, surely it is the fault of the whole system? CPS, police, social services etc etc.

It was a systematic failure and nobody in any position of authority during the times when an active case was being looked at can dodge that fact. There are multiple buck that need to stop with multiple people - all of whom need to hold their hands up and be part of the solution!

What is incredible to me is that, according to the parliamentary rules, insinuating that someone is basically an apologist for / protector of sex offenders is acceptable in the house of commons. Saying someone is a liar is not. Just so arcane and ludicrous.

@SamphiretheStickerist

Without being partisan about it, surely it is the fault of the whole system? CPS, police, social services etc etc.

It was a systematic failure and nobody in any position of authority during the times when an active case was being looked at can dodge that fact. There are multiple buck that need to stop with multiple people - all of whom need to hold their hands up and be part of the solution!

Well Johnson can't have it both ways! He wants the buck to stop at the very top when it's about prosecuting Savile, but he's happy to pass blame down the line and dodge responsibility when it's own organisation under scrutiny.

@BitOutOfPractice

What is incredible to me is that, according to the parliamentary rules, insinuating that someone is basically an apologist for / protector of sex offenders is acceptable in the house of commons. Saying someone is a liar is not. Just so arcane and ludicrous.

Totally agree - as with the other comments about the appalling spectacle that is PMQs - we need a proper overhaul of all our institutions to something fit for the present day not mired in the Victorian era.

@SamphiretheStickerist

Jesus H! Apologies for the abysmal typing there.

WHO? Seripsuly, party of individual possible leader. Who is there that is in any way electabel in any of the parties?

WHO? Seriously any party or any individual possible leader. Who is there that is in any way electable, anywhere?

We aren't due an election, but if there was one tomorrow I could cheerfully vote Labour - not that my vote counts for anything as we'll still get a Tory where I am.

I suggest anyone who is interested in this listen to the last quarter of the most recent episode of the BBC Newscast podcast (titled "Talks in Kyiv"). It's all there as follows:

• The fundamental reason why JS was not prosecuted was related to police policy.and in fact KS has done a lot of work trying to re-orientate the DPP towards victims.

• BJ's slur against KS has been fact-checked by the BBC many times and has been shown to be utter BS

-The Speaker (examining Erskine Young on parliamentary procedure) has said of BJ that "he is not satisfied the comments were appropriate"

• The former chief whip and senior senior Conservative MP, Julian Smith, has said that Boris's remarks "absolutely should be withdrawn"

• And most important of all, a lawyer who represented some of the victims of Saville, said they found BJ's remarks "grubby and reprehensible" and are deeply offended that their their suffering has been weaponized by BJ to extract himself from a political hole.

So yes op, a new low for Boris, and yet people go on believing and defending this utter cockroach! His behaviour has always been far more sinister and calculating than his shambolic whiff-whaffing persona suggests. This episode alone proves the depths to which he will sink for self preservation, and any Tory MP with a shred of decency should call for him to resign. Surely even the most ruthlessly ambitious among them would not want to score political points off the back of victims of child abuse?