Boris - new low

[daimbarsatemydogsbone]

Obviously he's running scared from his own side as well and Labour and the excellent contribution from Ian Blackford - no doubt Dennis Skinner would have done the same if still an MP.

However, there was no need for Johnson to stoop to the level of more lies - this time trying smear Kier Starmer with untrue allegations about Jimmy Savile.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/60213975

He knows what he's doing. Now everyone is talking about Savile and Starmer rather than him.

He's very calculating.

I'm living in Ireland and wouldn't know a whole lot about UK politics and politicians. I heard what Boris said about Keir Starmer on Sky News or BBC news and was pretty shocked by it and it did colour my view then of Keir Starmer.
So it's not true ?

@SamphiretheStickerist

I don't think it should have been said but, be fair, there have been threads here on the same subject. It is true, after all. Easy to verify too.

It won't become a lie, or in any way less reprehensible a fact, just because Johnson said it.

It’s a lie.

[quote SmallThingsEverywhere]@SamphiretheStickerist Can you verify what Johnson said?[/quote]
www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/keir-starmer-angrily-defends-himself-26104738

Lots of papers have similar. Look for the apology described in 2009

@SamphiretheStickerist That claim has been fact checked and found to be untrue. This smear was first mentioned on a Far Right Facebook page by the way. Here is a link to the fact check.

fullfact.org/online/keir-starmer-prosecute-jimmy-savile/

It is not true - it was a conspiracy theory put about by far right trolls
It has been thoroughly debunked
We now have a PM peddling lies and conspiracy theories from the despatch box
Disgraceful

Starmer led the Crown Prosecution Service when it decided not to prosecute Savile in 2009 due to insufficient evidence, a decision it later apologised for. But there is no evidence that Starmer was personally involved in the decision

So Starmer was there, in post at the time. There being no evidence that he had nothing to do with the decision personally almost makes it worse, he led the CPS, he should have known and had some input.

In case it needs saying clearly, I don't vote Tory. I have been a card carrying Labour Party member for almost the whole if my adult life - until Corbyn. Starmer has not changes my mind. I remain politically homeless.

Just before he answered starmer and while starmer was speaking.that little dude in the mask was whispering in his ears (can't remember his name). I don't think BJ is capable of thinking of his own comebacks when under fire personally.

@SamphiretheStickerist

I don't think it should have been said but, be fair, there have been threads here on the same subject. It is true, after all. Easy to verify too.

It won't become a lie, or in any way less reprehensible a fact, just because Johnson said it.

It's not just that it's been said, but that when asked for evidence to support the comment that Downing Street said he stands by it. Whilst refusing to back it up (because they can't because it's a lie).

To be fair stammer was in office during these periods and saville wasn’t actually taken to trial, and journalists were. It’s more stammer was saying ir wasn’t his decision, albeit in a very dramatic way.

It isn’t true. BBC has done a fact-check as well:

No evidence for Boris Johnson's claim about Keir Starmer and Jimmy Savile www.bbc.co.uk/news/60213975

It is true that he was DPP at the time of the decision not to charge. But there’s no evidence he had any involvement in that decision.

[quote mbosnz]Johnson’s insinuation in parliament that Starmer personally failed to charge Savile echoes claims made by online conspiracy theorists.

The fact-checking organisation Full Fact looked into the claim in June 2020. It found: “Mr Starmer was head of the [Crown Prosecution Service] when the decision was made not to prosecute Savile but he was not the reviewing lawyer for the case.”

"Starmer commissioned an investigation into the CPS decision not to prosecute Savile, and later apologised for “errors of judgment” made by police officers and the CPS prosecutor on the case. The investigation did not suggest Starmer was personally involved in the decisions made."

www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/01/boris-johnson-keir-starmer-jimmy-savile-smear-julian-smith[/quote]
So does that mean if a social worker makes an error of judgement then to top of the social services department is not responsible ?

If he was head of the cps then surely he is ultimately responsible for bad judgement ?

I worry he is so desperate to save his own skin he will get our military involved with Ukraine/Russia . Hence taking the attention off his rotten behaviour .

Johnson’s insinuation in parliament that Starmer personally failed to charge Savile echoes claims made by online conspiracy theorists.

I agree. Johnsons claims have been widely shared on conspiracy sites including QAnon, claiming Steimer is part of the child abusing global elite protection ring. Johnson will know this and imo made a calculation that this would happen and people would believe him, and he was right, as evidenced already on this thread. Johnson and the Tories are taking the country down a very, very dark road indeed.

Is the Head of Social Services supposed to have direct knowledge and oversight of every single decision made by a social worker?

PMSL, as if our revered leaders in Government have been held accountable for their own actions and decisions, let alone somebody elses!

If he was head of the cps then surely he is ultimately responsible for bad judgement ?

That is not the same as being personally responsible for the decision not to prosecute Saville, which was what Johnson said.

@User135644

He knows what he's doing. Now everyone is talking about Savile and Starmer rather than him.

He's very calculating.

Think this could backfire on him though. Some of his MPs are not happy about what he said and being vocal about it. Even Raab refused to defend Johnson’s claim on Sky News this morning. Why would you want to slander yourself to save Johnson?

I am surprised that anyone believes or listens to anything this liar says.
Scarey

The story on Keir Starmer is untrue and this has been previously proven.

Boris however, is a liar who was previously involved in a plot to beat someone up he had disagreed with. Fact. He accused the people of Liverpool of "wallowing in self pity" when a Liverpudlian aid worked was killed by Isis. Fact. He referred to Muslim women as looking like letter boxes and bank robbers. Fact. However, the Tories still on the whole want him as leader. He is of course for most of us wholly unsuitable. The only thing that will change Tory minds is when it becomes obvious that we are not going to vote for them... then they will ditch him.

@CounsellorTroi

If he was head of the cps then surely he is ultimately responsible for bad judgement ?

That is not the same as being personally responsible for the decision not to prosecute Saville, which was what Johnson said.

No. He didn't. Go and listen again, or read the many transcripts. He may have insinuated it but he didn't say it. As I said, he chose his words far more carefully.

@SamphiretheStickerist

You have posted a link to an article that explains Johnson was lying.

Savile wasn't prosecuted due to the Police failing to inform victims that others had complained. The victims refused to give evidence.

Under the circumstances it would have been nearly impossible to try Savile and would probably have led to him being acquitted.

Starmer was the boss but he wasn't personally involved.

He commissioned an enquiry following Savile's death and apologised to victims for Police and CPS failing to prosecute but the report didn't find any personal wrongdoing.

@CounsellorTroi

If he was head of the cps then surely he is ultimately responsible for bad judgement ?

That is not the same as being personally responsible for the decision not to prosecute Saville, which was what Johnson said.

To be fair we can’t hAve it both ways, we happily say anything going wrong in government and Boris is personally responsible. If we like this approach then it should be applied to stammer. He was in charge.

@SamphiretheStickerist

Starmer led the Crown Prosecution Service when it decided not to prosecute Savile in 2009 due to insufficient evidence, a decision it later apologised for. But there is no evidence that Starmer was personally involved in the decision

So Starmer was there, in post at the time. There being no evidence that he had nothing to do with the decision personally almost makes it worse, he led the CPS, he should have known and had some input.

In case it needs saying clearly, I don't vote Tory. I have been a card carrying Labour Party member for almost the whole if my adult life - until Corbyn. Starmer has not changes my mind. I remain politically homeless.

Nine hundred thousand case decisions were made each year in that time. You think he personally knew about the specifics of, and had input into, 3,460 case decisions every single day?

That's a patently ludicrous assertion.

Do me a favour and read the precise words I have used and the precise words Johnson used.

I know what I linked to, I chose it specifically as it explained what the lie was and what actually happened.

And I have explained myself a few times now.