Boris - new low

[daimbarsatemydogsbone]

Obviously he's running scared from his own side as well and Labour and the excellent contribution from Ian Blackford - no doubt Dennis Skinner would have done the same if still an MP.

However, there was no need for Johnson to stoop to the level of more lies - this time trying smear Kier Starmer with untrue allegations about Jimmy Savile.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/60213975

You'd think allegations of sex offences by a well known celebrity would certainly be up there wouldn't you.

At the time, you wouldn't. Who would have believed a nobody against a well known celebrity who raised oh so much money for charity? How dare someone accuse such a saint?

It's the same with paedophile priests and schoolmasters - those convicted had been getting away with it for years. A child's word, especially a rather wayward child, against a respected adult - who was going to be believed?

The climate has now begun to change.

VikingOnTheFridge

The Iranians would probably prefer their £400m back;

www.theguardian.com/news/2021/nov/11/nazanin-zaghari-ratcliffe-iran-uk-debt-arms-deal

But I thought of Jeremy Corbyn because of this connection;

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/jeremy-corbyn-press-tv-2012-11927924

and his brother Piers is a public nuisance by all accounts.

@JaniieJones

'If we take it that Russia to be a European country then the UK has the 2nd largest covid death toll in Europe'

www.statista.com/statistics/1111779/coronavirus-death-rate-europe-by-country/ (no mention of Russia)

Please refer to my pp regarding the relevance of per capita stats.

@JaniieJones I will refer to total death tolls for as long as other posters go on about the UK's economy growing the fastest in the G7 while ignoring that is because the government crashed the UK's economy by far more than other G7 countries.

@JaniieJones

'Has anyone claimed Starmer lied about Savile?'

Yes I'm not sure what the confusion is, I don't think he has lied.

Labour said the buck stops with the boss. Except, it seems, when Starmer is the boss.

No I am pointing out a significant difference for those of you saying the situation of the various scandals Boris has presided over and Keir Starmer's tenure at the CPS are the same thing.

They aren't.

When questions arose about the CPS and Savile Starmer didn't start off by telling lies about it.
When questions have arisen about anything on his watch, Boris initially tells bare faced lies about it.

That's the difference

'The cases put in front of the case manager in 2008/9 represented only a few complainants and none of them were prepared to take things forward to prosecution'

So why did he apologise in 2013 then? I wonder why he didn't say sadly the complainants weren't prepared to take things forward so we were unable to prosecute. It would seem odd to apologise if it wasn't their fault.

Didn't the buck stop with Starmer then?

Its definitely Starmer's fault that Johnson is throwing his own shit around like a monkey.
If only Starmer was decent enough only to ask the questions in parliament that Boris wants to answer then we wouldn't have all of this trouble.

@JaniieJones

'The cases put in front of the case manager in 2008/9 represented only a few complainants and none of them were prepared to take things forward to prosecution'

So why did he apologise in 2013 then? I wonder why he didn't say sadly the complainants weren't prepared to take things forward so we were unable to prosecute. It would seem odd to apologise if it wasn't their fault.

Because unlike Boris, Starmer doesn't go in for victim blaming. In fact as far as I can tell Boris' greatest skill is blaming other people.

[quote WendyTreetops]@Rosscameasdoody
So you're claiming that Starmer was head of the CPS at the time it decided not to prosecute Savile?[/quote]
Er - isn’t that rather the point. What are you misunderstanding ? In 2008 - month or so before Starmer took over as DPP - the police dropped the investigation of one case against Savile because the complainant didn’t want to take it further. A year or so later the CPS decided not to prosecute in the case of four other complainants because of lack of evidence - again the complainants weren’t prepared to support prosecutions. This was after Starmer had taken over as DPP. You have to understand that the DPP isn’t responsible for overseeing every case - it’s just not possible given the number of referrals involved. It’s up to the individual case managers to decide what to escalate, and given the fact that most of the appalling crimes committed by Savile didn’t surface until after his death, it was probably decided that the cases were straightforward as the complainants didn’t want to go to prosecution.

jgw1

You must have a very low opinion of Joe Biden then - 917,600 Covid deaths.

nypost.com/2021/11/28/biden-seen-flouting-mask-wearing-rule-at-nantucket-store/

"When questions arose about the CPS and Savile Starmer didn't start off by telling lies about it.
When questions have arisen about anything on his watch, Boris initially tells bare faced lies about it." And mislead Parliament.

@jgw1

Didn't the buck stop with Starmer then?

Its definitely Starmer's fault that Johnson is throwing his own shit around like a monkey.
If only Starmer was decent enough only to ask the questions in parliament that Boris wants to answer then we wouldn't have all of this trouble.

🤣🤣🤣

@Notonthestairs

"When questions arose about the CPS and Savile Starmer didn't start off by telling lies about it. When questions have arisen about anything on his watch, Boris initially tells bare faced lies about it." And mislead Parliament.

And tries to blame more junior officials/employees

@Clavinova

VikingOnTheFridge

The Iranians would probably prefer their £400m back;

www.theguardian.com/news/2021/nov/11/nazanin-zaghari-ratcliffe-iran-uk-debt-arms-deal

But I thought of Jeremy Corbyn because of this connection;

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/jeremy-corbyn-press-tv-2012-11927924

and his brother Piers is a public nuisance by all accounts.

You thought of Jeremy Corbyn because that's your typical go to deflection when whichever Tory you're trying to defend is bang to rights.

As I said, we're talking about a Boris specific problem.

I cannot understand the people defending Boris Johnson.
I can understand someone aligning with Tory values and still wanting a Tory government, I cannot understanding people defending the behaviour of Boris Johnson.

• being investigated by police for breaking his own laws
• failures in leadership
• desperate attempts of deflection in Pmqs that are Trump in style and debase UK politics
• failure to answer Putins call because of his own mess
• previous comments of 'watermelon smiles'

Stop trying to defend the indefensible, yes you an bite Tory but you look foolish trying to defend a man who is at best inept and at worst corrupt

@Rosscameasdoody
Er, what are you misunderstanding. Starmer was responsible for the CPS at the time the decision was made. It's accepted that it's reasonable to describe senior public servants as responsible for failings in their department even if they weren't personally involved in particular decisions. I don't think Starmer was culpable here, but in general political discourse what Johnson said was completely reprehensible but it wasn't a lie.

*can vote tory

I cannot understand the people defending Boris Johnson.

A job's a job!

[quote WendyTreetops]@jgw1
So you're being brazen about being deceitful about covid death tolls. Always disappointing to see people comfortable with their dishonesty.[/quote]
Isn’t it? Almost as disappointing as seeing people defend the perpetuators of the most brazen dishonesty ever seen in public life.

[quote WendyTreetops]@jgw1
So you're being brazen about being deceitful about covid death tolls. Always disappointing to see people comfortable with their dishonesty.[/quote]
Oh, yes quite open about it @WendyTreetops
If a poster thinks it is acceptable to quote the UK's amazing economic growth without mentioning that the reason the UK economy is growing is because the government caused it to crash so badly, then I will join in with the deceitful quoting of statistics.

VikingOnTheFridge
As I said, we're talking about a Boris specific problem

Boris Johnson's name isn't even mentioned in the Guardian article I linked to (November 2021).

However - in my other link;

[Jeremy Corbyn] defended his decision to appear on Press TV (Iranian state-funded TV) several times, being paid up to £20,000 according to reports, as late as six months after its licence was revoked in the UK.

@JaniieJones

'So you're being brazen about being deceitful about covid death tolls. '

It's weird isn't it. I'd be a bit embarrassed saying worse death toll like some telly reporters when we know it just isn't true.

It's weird isn't it. I'd be hugely embarrassed saying best economic growth in the G7 when they know that is because the government crashed the UK economy through its incompetence. I'd be even more embarrassed trying to defend Boris' lies, particularly those about Saville, but some posters still do.

@JaniieJones

'The cases put in front of the case manager in 2008/9 represented only a few complainants and none of them were prepared to take things forward to prosecution'

So why did he apologise in 2013 then? I wonder why he didn't say sadly the complainants weren't prepared to take things forward so we were unable to prosecute. It would seem odd to apologise if it wasn't their fault.

It was Starmer himself who commissioned the report which uncovered failings on the part of the CPS. As the head of the organisation at the time, it fell to him to take responsibility and apologise for the failings the investigation uncovered,. Which he did. He was not apologising for the failure to prosecute Savile - one case was dropped by the police as the complainant didn’t want to take it further, so not the decision of the CPS. The other four complaints against Savile weren’t escalated by case managers at CPS because there wasn’t enough evidence to go forward given that, again, the complainants didn’t want to support prosecution. So there would have been little to no chance of a conviction, which is a waste of tax payers money and given Savile’s celebrity status, would have had all sorts of other implications. I think we’re all mindful of the dreadful catalog of crimes that came out after Savile’s death so I think it’s important to keep in mind that none of this was known at the time these decisions were made - it was a collection of allegations made by a few people unwilling to follow through on their complaints. Had the full extent of his crimes been known at the time, the outcome would probably have been different.

Clavinova - never mind your whataboutery over Iran. Their regime hasn't changed recently so any competent Foreign Secretary has had time to be fully briefed on what their nature is.

The real measure of successful diplomacy there will be when we see Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe coming through the arrivals of Heathrow as a free woman. Something which Johnson, Raab and Truss have so far failed to achieve. With two of them preferring to dress up in hi-vis or camouflage for photo ops.