Boris - new low

[daimbarsatemydogsbone]

Obviously he's running scared from his own side as well and Labour and the excellent contribution from Ian Blackford - no doubt Dennis Skinner would have done the same if still an MP.

However, there was no need for Johnson to stoop to the level of more lies - this time trying smear Kier Starmer with untrue allegations about Jimmy Savile.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/60213975

@Alexandra2001
Please don't be dishonest. Johnson did not say Starmer was 'personally involved'. And Starmer was head of the CPS which is why he was right to take responsibility and apologise for his organisation's failings. You need to realise how you're undermining your case by exaggerating.

@Notonthestairs

https://twitter.com/mattgreencomedy/status/1488879535785455616?s=21

How to Deploy a Dead Cat - sums it up rather well I think.

Exactly! I detect the influence of Lynton Crosby....

He apologised for their failures so he clearly felt some responsibility

Doing the honourable thing by making a public apology certainly does not amount to an acknowledgement of personal responsibility! It is particularly hideous that this is now being used as a stick to beat him - especially by a person who has stated that investigating historic child abuse is spaffing money up the wall.

Luckily most people - including some of the more decent tory MPs - can see this.

Oh just give up @WendyTreetops - we see you

I thought one of BJ's lowest points was the "Pile the bodies high" comment

Boris Johnson has denied making that comment and I thought Dominic Cummings gave an ambiguous answer at the Select Committee;

"I heard that in the Prime Minister's study" -

• doesn't actually confirm that it was the Prime Minister who said it.

Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliiffe a prime example of ineptitude

Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliiffe lost her final appeal against her five-year prison sentence six months before Boris Johnson 'misspoke'.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39697016

Two French nationals are in a similar unfortunate situation:

12 Jan 2022
Iran has sent back to prison from house arrest French-Iranian academic Fariba Adelkhah, a shock development in the midst of delicate talks on the Iranian nuclear drive...

www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/12/iran-sends-french-iranian-academic-back-to-jail-at-key-point-in-nuclear-talks

19 Jan 2022
A jailed French tourist in Iran, Benjamin Briere, will appear before a Revolutionary Court on spying charges...

www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20220119-french-tourist-detained-in-iran-to-appear-in-court-on-spying-charges

@CryingAtTheDiscotheque
Got anything to contribute to the discussion? Thought not.

We should've offered the Iranian authorities Boris in return for Nazanin.

@VikingOnTheFridge

We should've offered the Iranian authorities Boris in return for Nazanin.

Not the most attractive offer from their point of view

We should've offered the Iranian authorities Boris in return for Nazanin

Or Piers and Jeremy Corbyn - two for the price of one.

[quote WendyTreetops]@Alexandra2001
Please don't be dishonest. Johnson did not say Starmer was 'personally involved'. And Starmer was head of the CPS which is why he was right to take responsibility and apologise for his organisation's failings. You need to realise how you're undermining your case by exaggerating.[/quote]
Starmer didn't lie about Savile.

Boris tries to lie his way out everything.

@daimbarsatemydogsbone
Has anyone claimed Starmer lied about Savile?

'Has anyone claimed Starmer lied about Savile?'

Yes I'm not sure what the confusion is, I don't think he has lied.

Labour said the buck stops with the boss. Except, it seems, when Starmer is the boss.

@Clavinova

We should've offered the Iranian authorities Boris in return for Nazanin

Or Piers and Jeremy Corbyn - two for the price of one.

Nah, neither of them claimed whilst Foreign Secretary that she was there teaching journalism. This is a Boris specific problem.

@SamphiretheStickerist

I don't think it should have been said but, be fair, there have been threads here on the same subject. It is true, after all. Easy to verify too.

It won't become a lie, or in any way less reprehensible a fact, just because Johnson said it.

But it’s not true is it ? In 2008, a month before Starmer became director of public prosecutions, Sussex Police confirmed it had dropped an investigation into a possible sexual assault against Savile because the complainant did not want to take the matter further. There were four sexual abuse claims against Savile about a year later and these were reviewed by the CPS, who felt there was insufficient evidence to proceed because none of the accusers were prepared to support a prosecution.

Starmer was not the reviewing lawyer on the case. The fact is that individual team leaders and chiefs make decisions, rather than the DPP having oversight of them all. So Starmer probably wasn’t even aware of it - probably why he commissioned a review. If I remember rightly he issued an apology for failures at the heart of the CPS which were revealed as a result of that review. So he wasn’t involved in the decision not to prosecute Jimmy Saville. So Boris was wrong to level the accusation - borne out by the fact that no-one wants to repeat the allegation outside the privileged environment of Parliament. Starmer got to the heart of the matter in blistering form and Boris didn’t like it, so he stooped to the lowest form of mud slinging.

[quote WendyTreetops]@jgw1
Please don't be dishonest. I have unambiguously criticised Johnson for his comment and you're being deceitful to pretend otherwise. Seems you've no intention of acknowledging that you were misleading people about the covid death toll, let alone apologising for it. And you've got the gall to critique other people's honesty ...[/quote]
Dear @WendyTreetops,

I wish to apologise if you found my post dishonest.
Whether or not Russia is a European country is a subject that can be debated, but you clearly hold the view that it is, and that is fine, it is an acceptable view. If we take it that Russia to be a European country then the UK has the 2nd largest covid death toll in Europe, which does not significantly change the argument that the UK's response to covid was poor, especially given that the GDP of Russia and the UK are significantly different, and so health spending in the two countries is very different.

@JaniieJones

'Has anyone claimed Starmer lied about Savile?'

Yes I'm not sure what the confusion is, I don't think he has lied.

Labour said the buck stops with the boss. Except, it seems, when Starmer is the boss.

@JaniieJones The confusion on my part is why anyone would choose to defend the offensive lie that Boris said in parliament on Monday.

But I think it is useful for you and others to keep trying to defend Boris as it draws attention to a wider audience just how nasty the Nasty Party has become of late.

Exactly @Rosscameasdoody - was just typing a similar post but you have summarised more succinctly!

KS did the honourable thing by making an apology on behalf of the CPS - it is classic Johnson to insinuate that this indicates some personal responsibility. It does not.

Johnson's MO, on the other hand, is to lie, wriggle, and blame anyone but himself. The contrast could not be more stark,

'The fact is that individual team leaders and chiefs make decisions, rather than the DPP having oversight of them all. So Starmer probably wasn’t even aware of it '

I wonder what threshold they have for informing the boss. You'd think allegations of sex offences by a well known celebrity would certainly be up there wouldn't you.

[quote WendyTreetops]@Alexandra2001
Please don't be dishonest. Johnson did not say Starmer was 'personally involved'. And Starmer was head of the CPS which is why he was right to take responsibility and apologise for his organisation's failings. You need to realise how you're undermining your case by exaggerating.[/quote]
Boris may not have said Starmer was personally involved but he did accuse him of lying. And you conveniently left out the fact that it was Starmer who commissioned the investigation of the CPS which revealed the failings for which he took responsibility and apologised - a world away from being personally involved or telling any lies. And when he apologised he clearly meant it - which is more than you can say for Boris.

@Rosscameasdoody
So you're claiming that Starmer was head of the CPS at the time it decided not to prosecute Savile?

'If we take it that Russia to be a European country then the UK has the 2nd largest covid death toll in Europe'

www.statista.com/statistics/1111779/coronavirus-death-rate-europe-by-country/ (no mention of Russia)

Please refer to my pp regarding the relevance of per capita stats.

Wendy I suggest you read Ross's post more closely.

It's a dead cat story thrown by a politician trying to smear his way out of his own mess.
It's transparent and frankly desperate.

Heard one commentator describing Johnson's Savile accusations as like a monkey throwing its own shit around. Seemed apt.

@JaniieJones

'The fact is that individual team leaders and chiefs make decisions, rather than the DPP having oversight of them all. So Starmer probably wasn’t even aware of it '

I wonder what threshold they have for informing the boss. You'd think allegations of sex offences by a well known celebrity would certainly be up there wouldn't you.

@JaniieJones Talking of boss' taking responsibility for their and their staff's actions. Any news on Boris taking responsibility for appointing a bully as Home Secretary? Or as chief whip? Any news on Boris taking responsibility for parties that took place in his office, flat and garden that he attended?

@CryingAtTheDiscotheque

Heard one commentator describing Johnson's Savile accusations as like a monkey throwing its own shit around. Seemed apt.

Didn't the buck stop with Starmer then?

@JaniieJones

'The fact is that individual team leaders and chiefs make decisions, rather than the DPP having oversight of them all. So Starmer probably wasn’t even aware of it '

I wonder what threshold they have for informing the boss. You'd think allegations of sex offences by a well known celebrity would certainly be up there wouldn't you.

Difficult to determine, because the extent of Savile’s crimes didn’t come to light until after his death in 2011. The cases put in front of the case manager in 2008/9 represented only a few complainants and none of them were prepared to take things forward to prosecution. I’m sure that if the full extent of what was happening had been known at that time, things would have been very different, hindsight being 20/20.