To wonder how you feel today if you voted for Boris Johnson at the last election?

[Readyforthegoodlife]

It’s absolutely no surprise that Boris is behaving in this way but I cannot actually believe that we have a prime minister like this. He is utterly morally bankrupt. If you voted for him how do you feel now?

I feel excellent about my choice, in the sense that I helped prevent the access to power of a raging anti-Semite who couldn't define what a woman is and made a teenaged boy the Women's Officer of his party.

I would make the same choice again if there was a GE today. And if Labour still don't know what a woman is by the time of the next GE, then I shall make the same choice again.

Apart from the woman issue (which is key), various Tory policies throughout the years helped me, a working class immigrant woman, access real social mobility. Tory policies enabled my dad to buy his council house, my mum to get increased benefits due to mental health, me to get a scholarship to a selective school, and me to get on the housing ladder. I'm grateful for that. Labour (who behave like I owe them my vote because of my 'identity') opposed all those policies.

So yeah, I feel excellent about my choice.

@potniatheron

I feel excellent about my choice, in the sense that I helped prevent the access to power of a raging anti-Semite who couldn't define what a woman is and made a teenaged boy the Women's Officer of his party.

I would make the same choice again if there was a GE today. And if Labour still don't know what a woman is by the time of the next GE, then I shall make the same choice again.

Apart from the woman issue (which is key), various Tory policies throughout the years helped me, a working class immigrant woman, access real social mobility. Tory policies enabled my dad to buy his council house, my mum to get increased benefits due to mental health, me to get a scholarship to a selective school, and me to get on the housing ladder. I'm grateful for that. Labour (who behave like I owe them my vote because of my 'identity') opposed all those policies.

So yeah, I feel excellent about my choice.

Excellent. Thank you for confirming so transparently that the Tory vote is based on self interest with zero regard for honesty, integrity or decency.

Blossomtoes: "Excellent. Thank you for confirming so transparently that the Tory vote is based on self interest with zero regard for honesty, integrity or decency."

That's overblown, cliche, guilt tripping nonsense and you know it. I vote based on the interests of me, my family and those I love and care about. Having a good job through social mobility means I can look after my mum and brother financially, as she's very mentally ill and he's struggling. My dad buying his council house has given him a higher standard of living. Me buying a flat has raised my social status and means I'll have something to pass onto my kids.

Voting for a party that's able to define what a woman is, is good for all women.

The vast majority of people vote with a view to what's good for them and their families. It's truly a mark of privilege to be able to ignore such things and vote on some poorly thought out idea of lofty principles. In my view, the upper middle classes (because Labour is an upper middle class party these days) just can't cope with the fact that the working classes can think for themselves and don't need Labour to look after them.

From 2015 onwards I would try and have a debate with Labour party members about why I left the Labour party and was constantly told to 'fuck off and vote Tory'. And I did. And now I'm very pleased.

And now I'm very pleased

I don't understand how anyone can look at Britain in 2022 and be pleased in comparison to Britain in 2009. The structure of our society is weakened in so many ways. We have seen extensive and crippling cuts to so many services. In my own area for example the cuts to social care, policing and health services have been extraordinarily deep.

I saw some comparisons of poor areas in the UK and Germany a few days ago - we are all so much poorer in the UK.

I think people often think they are doing OK, I myself feel pretty lucky in many ways, but the UK has a low benchmark and if we had a social democratic model most of us could be doing much better.

I don't dislike people who vote Tory, of course not, but I do think that the vast majority of those who vote Tory are actually voting against their own longterm financial and societal interests.

To me, voting Tory would be short term beneficial but longer term will cost me more, and so I don't do it.

I can understand why someone who cares about women’s rights would vote Tory. I can no longer vote for Labour, the Lib Dem’s or the Greens for this reason. I can understand some other reasons for voting Tory, even though I don’t agree with them.

I can’t understand why anyone is still defending Boris Johnson. Why wouldn’t you want him to resign?

various Tory policies throughout the years helped me, a working class immigrant woman, access real social mobility. Tory policies enabled my dad to buy his council house, my mum to get increased benefits due to mental health, me to get a scholarship to a selective school, and me to get on the housing ladder

The Tory housing policies are proven to reduce social mobility across the nation, by creating a small group of people who benefit and a large number of people who can not access housing security at all.

The Labour party have never opposed benefits increases and the changes the Tories have intrduced have been extremely punitive and damaging.

Again accessing a selective school is beneficial for the few who get in, but far less powerful than good funding across the board.

It is irrational and incorrect to call Tory policies progressive policies. Tory policies are regressive, they are intentionally so. The Tory party is fundamentally opposed to meaningful social mobility. Britain has become less and less socially mobile. The party itself can say whatever it likes, and some will fall for it of course, but the research is clear and the facts are that most of us are worse off than we need to be.

That’s the thing people believe that all Tory polices negatively impacted working class people

I think it’s hard to understand for many how important it was to be able to buy your own council home, it was beyond so many peoples reach to buy before. It allowed many workings class people to be home owners this was such a shift

No the money wasn’t put back as it should have been not just under Tories but Labour too

@OhWhyNot

That’s the thing people believe that all Tory polices negatively impacted working class people

I think it’s hard to understand for many how important it was to be able to buy your own council home, it was beyond so many peoples reach to buy before. It allowed many workings class people to be home owners this was such a shift

No the money wasn’t put back as it should have been not just under Tories but Labour too

It was only beneficial to those who could do it rather than the population as a whole - now a smaller and smaller group of people can do it and the wider implications of our housing crisis vastly outweigh any benefits.

Oh no people do what’s best for them and their family

How dare those pesky council house people think that way

@OhWhyNot

Oh no people do what’s best for them and their family

How dare those pesky council house people think that way

But it is not best for their kids - many of my friends are stuck living in the ex-council houses their parents bought because they can nto afford a private rental...

The housing market is structurally fucked. That doesn't benefit anyone who doesn't already own property.

Hi truthfullylying - me and my family were worse off in 2009 compared to now due to the financial crash. As to the weakening of the structure of society - I have a tight network of friends and family and we help each other. My mum's care is better now than it was in 2009. My brother's in a better place, as is one of my friends who was homeless in 2009, now safely housed. I can only speak for my own community and I can only vote on that basis too.

In terms of society I think the thing I worry most about is police cuts. I live in a fairly high crime area, high levels of petty crime, drug dealing, petty disorder on the high street, that kinds of thing. I do definitely worry about that and I think teresa May's cuts to the police were a massive mistake. But I don't see Kier Starmer saying he'll train up more police, or get them investigating petty crime, as opposed to arresting women putting up women's rights stickers. In fact a lot of my friends in Labour were calling to defund the police further a couple of years ago.

I won't reply to your other points as they didn't refer to any views I've espoused.

I mean stuck living with their parents, not in an inherited home.

What about all those that have bought to let or have second properties

That has driven up the costs of housing

@potniatheron

Hi truthfullylying - me and my family were worse off in 2009 compared to now due to the financial crash. As to the weakening of the structure of society - I have a tight network of friends and family and we help each other. My mum's care is better now than it was in 2009. My brother's in a better place, as is one of my friends who was homeless in 2009, now safely housed. I can only speak for my own community and I can only vote on that basis too.

In terms of society I think the thing I worry most about is police cuts. I live in a fairly high crime area, high levels of petty crime, drug dealing, petty disorder on the high street, that kinds of thing. I do definitely worry about that and I think teresa May's cuts to the police were a massive mistake. But I don't see Kier Starmer saying he'll train up more police, or get them investigating petty crime, as opposed to arresting women putting up women's rights stickers. In fact a lot of my friends in Labour were calling to defund the police further a couple of years ago.

I won't reply to your other points as they didn't refer to any views I've espoused.

Sorry O got my year worng - I meant pre-crash.

If you look at the return to growth in other European countries - the UK has been extra fucked.

Your family may have had a run of good luck - but one swallow doesn't make a summer.

The UK has major structural issues created deliberately by Tory Chancellors.

Hi OhWhyNot, thank you for your posts, yes it's hard to explain to more privileged people, just what a massive game changer Right to Buy was. It utterly changed my dad's life, he was in a council house in a very bad area, was able to buy it and then sell and move to a nicer area, less issues with the neighbours, totally changed his life and mine by extension.

Similarly Help to Buy, enabled me to buy a flat, I cannot express whata difference it has made to my life standards and yes my mental health too, that I now have an asset and a stake in society, something to leave, rather than renting all my life. It's really hard to explain how important these things are unless it's someone who's been through the same.

I was actually a Labour supporter up until Blair et al. Since then they have slowly become more and more unpalatable and as i stated before all the bile and spite spewed by Labour supporters does nothing to change my mind and the minds of those like me. It feels like Labour supporters are completely unable to understand or accept differing view points from their own. I knew full well what Boris was/is and yet he was still preferable to me and millions like me. Labour and their supporters need to ask themselves why and no its not because we are all thick, stupid or don't care about our fellow British citizens. I do think that the attempt to reverse brexit was the absolute last straw for many people, it just showed how much contempt Labour, Lib dems actually have for people who don't think as they do. If you want the tories out you need to start reading the room, stop insulting peoples intelligence and accept it when people think differently to yourselves. I honestly believe that even after all the shit this government have been up to over lockdown they would still win a snap general election if it was held now ( even if the polls say different) because the other option is far less palatable to most people. Its not and never has been a case of thinking Boris and the tories are great its a case of the other option is far far worse.

@OhWhyNot

What about all those that have bought to let or have second properties

That has driven up the costs of housing

Yes, because when you remove social housing for rent, private rental returns get better, making it an attractive investment.

Social rental provision at adequate levels (as in the post-war era):
a) operates to keep rents at decent levels
b) ensures rental income both private and benefit is recycled into reinvestment

It is a political choice to pay housing benefit to private landlords instead of back into the state sector. It is a mechanism to take money from the taxpayer and give it to the already wealthy.

@potniatheron

Hi OhWhyNot, thank you for your posts, yes it's hard to explain to more privileged people, just what a massive game changer Right to Buy was. It utterly changed my dad's life, he was in a council house in a very bad area, was able to buy it and then sell and move to a nicer area, less issues with the neighbours, totally changed his life and mine by extension.

Similarly Help to Buy, enabled me to buy a flat, I cannot express whata difference it has made to my life standards and yes my mental health too, that I now have an asset and a stake in society, something to leave, rather than renting all my life. It's really hard to explain how important these things are unless it's someone who's been through the same.

Many of us who have experience of it can see the structural issues it has created for the next generation.

Do not dismiss everyone who disagrees with you as 'too privileged to understand'

I am enjoying all the disingenuous/deflecting stuff about 'yes but Ukraine' (and it's not 'the Ukraine BTW) and how voting for your own Tory candidate has nothing to do with who is prime minister.

End of the day, the man is being investigated by the police. For breaching rules that he sat on national telly and recited to us all, multiple times. In the context of (to name just a few) people attending funerals via Zoom, visiting loved ones by shouting through windows, being bundled to the ground face-down for attending, with masks on, a vigil for a murdered woman.

Why didn’t Labour invest more

Huge amounts of money are circulating particularly in the larger cities where you have buy to let and foreign investment (which returns very little tax directly from them)

More of course should have gone into social housing but from all governments but to dismiss the Tories as only benefitting wealthier people is simply not true. Many working class people have been better off under the Tories

Again if you are buying to let or have a second home you are part of the problem

@Inastatus

The people who did this are extremists, not the average voter the poster is clearly referring to. There are just as many examples of attacks against Tory MP’s - David Ames for instance. It is a sad fact that many MP’s from all parties have to deal with threats and abuse as part of their role

Did you read her post? she clearly stated Tory voters/MPs don't abuse the left... Do you agree with BJ taunting starmer with a blatant lie yesterday on Saville? vile... is BJ an extremist?

As for it being part of their role?? wtf! thats clearly a crazy pov, no one in any role should have to put up with abuse and independent research has shown its predominately women that are subject to the cruelest & most vile of abuse.
Don't really know why you are defending it, either that or you need to reword what you wrote.

I’m also fine, I think work parties are ludicrous and we need to understand better but do believe we’d be in even more shit if Corbyn and Labour got in, so for me all good. It’s pick your poison. Always has been.

Hi truthfullylying, I think we're almost getting down to a philosophical issue, which is what do people actually have in mind when they vote. If I'm understanding you correctly, when you go into the voting booth, you have in mind the proper long term, decades hence, and a comparison of living standards in the UK and other European countries. You think of all the 70 million peopple in the UK, rather than you and your network. That's cool. For me, when I go in the voing booth, I've got in mind the parties' manifestos and the interviews they give on TV before the election, and what their policies will mean for me and my family over the next 5 years. How we will live, our livelihoods, our living standrads over the next five years. Because that's what I am focussed on - me and my family being OK over the next five years.

So we have two different perspectives when we vote, and I personally think yours isthe more privileged perspective, but of course, that doesnt assign any greater moral weight to your perspective or mine. They're just different. You're doing you and I'm doing me. That's all good.

If Labour have better policies for me at the next election, I'll vote Labour. But I have no idea currently what Labour's policies are, other than woman is just a feeling, and lots of party members hate the leader and want Jeremy Corbyn back. So if Kier wnats my vote, he better pull his finger out.

Finally I should add that I understand the structural issues you refer to. I would suggest that they are attributable to a number of macroeconomic issues which are beyond the control of any British government - the flood of cheap debt in the early 00s, ultra low interest rates since 2007, the rise in asset prices across the developed world, the economic growth of China, the shift to a digital world. In social terms, the effects of social media and hyper-individualisation and the collapse of religion and regional identities also play a role. In my view.

Some people are being deliberately obtuse. A general election is absolutely about who you want to run the country. At the last GE loads of people were saying they wouldn't vote Labour because they didn't want Corbyn as PM.

Everyone knew what Johnson was like. He had been sacked from previous jobs for lying, he had been an accomplice in having a journalist beaten up, and many other things that made him unfit to be PM. And yet people still voted Tory. They are now trying to pretend they weren't voting for Johnson, they were just voting for their local candidate. Yeah, sure you were.

More of course should have gone into social housing but from all governments but to dismiss the Tories as only benefitting wealthier people is simply not true. Many working class people have been better off under the Tories

I ve been poor and struggling and i'm now what many would consider "better off"
Its due to Labour and universal education and the ability to access free HE.
If i were in the position now as i was then, i would be stuck in poverty, the tories do nothing for the poor, you only have to look at how they freeze working benefits, removed Surestart, run down the NHS, invest, in real term, below inflation increases in education, took away social housing, trebled tuition fees (that def doesn't effect the rich) increases NI but left investment income un taxed.

How many food banks were there under Blair?