To wonder how you feel today if you voted for Boris Johnson at the last election?

[Readyforthegoodlife]

It’s absolutely no surprise that Boris is behaving in this way but I cannot actually believe that we have a prime minister like this. He is utterly morally bankrupt. If you voted for him how do you feel now?

@Alexandra2001

This kind of behaviour is linked to Labour and Labour supporters. I never ever see right leaning/ tory supporters hurling abuse at left wingers but its a shame the same can't be said from the other

Tell that to Diane Abbott or Jess Philips?
Police warned Labour MP Jess Phillips a hitman could be paid to target her and even her son is looking out for danger of attacks

Rape threats made against Labour female MPs is common place.

..a member of a far right organisation murdered labour MP Jo Cox.

So i think your assertions that this is a left wing problem is completely wrong.

Ahh don't talk facts! The right don't like that. They just like to say how mean the left are for hurting their feelings.

Energy and food prices have risen across Europe.

People also voted for change

I never said immigration wasn’t an issue but Remain totally ignored it

We can’t pretend that EU immigration has been across the board a positive for all in our society lowering wages or wage stagnation when you have cheaper labour force doesn’t help and we can kid ourselves that fom is about us people able to work where we like it’s not is about business

Those educated are likely to have better paid jobs and a wage increase since the recession.

Again easy arguments and not looking at the bigger picture

You have to defend some cruel policies that have had no benefit, such as austerity

Austerity may have been unpopular, and with some good reason given its impact on lower income families, but it didn't have "no" benefit either. The Tories inherited the largest budget deficit of any European country hence the "there's no money left" note.

From a macro-economic perspective, Osborne succeeded in moving from a surplus to a deficit on the current budget and, before Brexit, was on track to reduce national debt as a proportion of national income.

I agree that the pandemic subsequently blew a hole in public finances and dwarfed the impact of austerity measures. But there was an underlying economic rationale for austerity in terms of trying to stabilise the economy and, to some extent, match spending with public income.

It's not the only approach, but having a huge public debt has to be tackled at some point, either by increasing taxation or cutting spending. The pandemic has made this problem far worse and there will be some very difficult decisions ahead. And yes, I absolutely have sympathy with people struggling to put food on the table and pay their energy bills.

@feb21

You have to defend some cruel policies that have had no benefit, such as austerity

Austerity may have been unpopular, and with some good reason given its impact on lower income families, but it didn't have "no" benefit either. The Tories inherited the largest budget deficit of any European country hence the "there's no money left" note.

From a macro-economic perspective, Osborne succeeded in moving from a surplus to a deficit on the current budget and, before Brexit, was on track to reduce national debt as a proportion of national income.

I agree that the pandemic subsequently blew a hole in public finances and dwarfed the impact of austerity measures. But there was an underlying economic rationale for austerity in terms of trying to stabilise the economy and, to some extent, match spending with public income.

It's not the only approach, but having a huge public debt has to be tackled at some point, either by increasing taxation or cutting spending. The pandemic has made this problem far worse and there will be some very difficult decisions ahead. And yes, I absolutely have sympathy with people struggling to put food on the table and pay their energy bills.

Austerity as a means of restoring public finances was debunked some years ago. There was a study that supported it: it turned out to rely on a spreadsheet containing an arithmetic error. Austerity was a mistake.

And please tell me you don't take the 'no money left' note seriously. It was a joke that the coalition government cynically exploited.

I never voted for Johnson or Brexit

But I have the ability to not just see things through my experiences ….

Economically, many governments in the West find themselves in a similar situation. The mass deregulation of the markets in the 80s (which was probably the right thing to do at the time, but has had unforeseen consequences) has driven a greater and greater proportion of wealth into the hands of a small group of people. This has meant that the power of corporations has increased and that of governments has declined. The wealth has become increasingly inaccessible to the vast majority of people, as these people and corporations are mobile and therefore almost impossible to tax effectively.
It is pretty much impossible to do anything about this now, as governments no longer have the power to do so.
Labour would have the same problems if it was in power. The economy is becoming less productive and the size of the state will shrink in turn.

@feb21

You have to defend some cruel policies that have had no benefit, such as austerity

Austerity may have been unpopular, and with some good reason given its impact on lower income families, but it didn't have "no" benefit either. The Tories inherited the largest budget deficit of any European country hence the "there's no money left" note.

From a macro-economic perspective, Osborne succeeded in moving from a surplus to a deficit on the current budget and, before Brexit, was on track to reduce national debt as a proportion of national income.

I agree that the pandemic subsequently blew a hole in public finances and dwarfed the impact of austerity measures. But there was an underlying economic rationale for austerity in terms of trying to stabilise the economy and, to some extent, match spending with public income.

It's not the only approach, but having a huge public debt has to be tackled at some point, either by increasing taxation or cutting spending. The pandemic has made this problem far worse and there will be some very difficult decisions ahead. And yes, I absolutely have sympathy with people struggling to put food on the table and pay their energy bills.

Running the country’s finances on an annualised basis without trying to grow the economy is pretty poor economics quite frankly.

Running the country while ignoring huge masses of wealth accumulation and only focussing on income type taxes is madness.

Austerity was a complete con and has fucked the country over. There’s a reason we tanked during covid. First austerity then Brexit.

Yes, I understand the note was tongue in cheek. However, the size of our public debt was a fact. It's not really a case of "debunking" austerity. There is an economic rationale in matching what you spend with what you receive. I agree, it's not the only approach. But a high public debt can have a knock on impact on the economy, and by extension, employment, taxation revenue etc.

I'm not advocating austerity as the sole answer as it had a huge social cost. But it didn't have "no" benefit either. Our public debt would have been higher without it. At some point, we are going to have to tackle it, one way or another. In the best case scenario, economic growth helps to chip away at it but the NI rise shows that it's unlikely to be the only thing needed.

Still grateful that Labour aren’t in power.

Anyway, back to Boris. It seems as if he might yet wriggle out of Partygate given the report seems rather vague in places. Unless he's been teed up for the police investigation.

I wonder how many people could put hand on heart and say they 100% complied with lockdown rules? Those at work? is the context that they where all at work together and had a few social drinks in the garden a couple of times????

I live on my own, am self employed (won't say what as outing) the only live humans I interacted with during that first lockdown where checkout staff in supermarket.

I can tell you it was not healthy.... I'm still struggling now

@Momijin

Yep, I have a lot of european friends and they are incredulous. Petrol, NHS, food prices, energy prices... tories blaming it on covid yet our european counterparts aren't experiencing the same. People still stubbornly sticking to their guns and defending BJ.

This is absolute rubbish. Energy and petrol prices have risen across Europe, and with that so have food prices although Europe have always had higher food prices then the UK. All the European countries that I've heard of are struggling with health care because of the toll of covid. It's always amazing to me that people have friends that always back up their opinion. They never have friends who have an alternative experience. And the more outlandish the claim, the more friends a person has to back them up.

feb21,

Austerity is an economically illiterate approach. Governments are funded through tax revenue. Therefore if you want to reduce the budget deficit you are best off stimulating the economy so that trade booms and businesses profit and return tax to the treasury.

Osborne and co did precisely the opposite.

If you knew that the 'no money left' comment was a joke I'm not sure why you mentioned it. I'm more inclined to think I caught you out.

I have lots of European friends. Some absolutely baffled by Brexit others support it (a number of those who live here) others fed up with feeling as though their country will have to bail out other EU countries again.

German friends who like Johnson’s approach to Covid …

Like here a mixture of opinions and experiences and views on other countries

I think a lot of them will be horrified by the current PM and Cabinet. But there maybe wasn’t a choice.

I technically wasted my vote by voting Lib Dem last time. Voting conservative would have been appalling to put Boris Johnson into No10. But voting Labour to put Jeremy Corbyn in would have been equally appalling.

The real change will come now that middle voters have someone like Keir Starmer to vote for. It’ll be a much more reasonable labour government from the next general election.

@DSGR

People pretending it was all about their local MP make me laugh. You know it was about Boris, just be honest. He holds all the power.

Exactly. This is simply a way to distance themselves from their decision and its outcome.

Couldn't have voted for an anti semite party.

Hah! The reaction to Brexit down here (NZ) is equally mixed.

There is the Anglophile intelligentsia who are horrified.

There is the more Americanised remainder who applaud it as the UK sticking it to the man. They have little love for the EU.

There is big business who find it a nuisance as they used the UK as a base to expand into Europe. They'll probably use Ireland now.

Oddly enough, a very muted response from farming. Possibly muted because farming here (and in fact the entire economy) got stuffed by UK EEC entry.

The Europeans have been sniffing around for a trade deal too, after making us talk to the hand for decades (and threatening sanctions after a Putinesque murder by the French secret services in Auckland harbour.)

Didnt vote tory

I could see right through him. Not surprised in the least how he has lead the country

Id be surprised if his leadership had been squeaky clean with no scandal attached

@TomPinch

feb21,

Austerity is an economically illiterate approach. Governments are funded through tax revenue. Therefore if you want to reduce the budget deficit you are best off stimulating the economy so that trade booms and businesses profit and return tax to the treasury.

Osborne and co did precisely the opposite.

If you knew that the 'no money left' comment was a joke I'm not sure why you mentioned it. I'm more inclined to think I caught you out.

Agreed. Austerity was a cynical political exercise in the continuing mission of the Tories to shift the burden of paying for everything onto the poorest and away from their rich friends. There is an excellent documentary on BBC iplayer at the moment called "The Decade the Rich Won" which explains this in detail.

@Alexandra2001

This kind of behaviour is linked to Labour and Labour supporters. I never ever see right leaning/ tory supporters hurling abuse at left wingers but its a shame the same can't be said from the other

Tell that to Diane Abbott or Jess Philips?
Police warned Labour MP Jess Phillips a hitman could be paid to target her and even her son is looking out for danger of attacks

Rape threats made against Labour female MPs is common place.

..a member of a far right organisation murdered labour MP Jo Cox.

So i think your assertions that this is a left wing problem is completely wrong.

@Alexandra2001 - The people who did this are extremists, not the average voter the poster is clearly referring to. There are just as many examples of attacks against Tory MP’s - David Ames for instance. It is a sad fact that many MP’s from all parties have to deal with threats and abuse as part of their role.

Some utter rubbish spouted on here . Austerity was a manufactured concept to make them look fiscally prudent— strange then that £300 billion found under the sofa for Brexit or you so easily write off £4 billion in loans to your mates or spend £37 billion on a failed Track and Trace without investigation where £37 billion actually went. This bunch are not remotely fiscally prudent- they are raiding the coffers to enrich those like themselves whilst getting uppity at poor families getting an extra £20 a week or daring to have a spare bedroom. I am not some radical lefty either, I vote labour or Lib Dem depending where I live. Currently we live in Copenhagen— UK could learn a lot from here- strict rules for EU workers even on working and staying and £14 an hr minimum wage— high tax, high standards, high services and no our food prices haven’t gone up nor do we have shortages and a very efficient vaccination roll out too—- plus it’s been as much free testing as you wanted and lots of covid controls - 3,600 deaths. Politicians are out on their ear for a 200 euro expense fiddle— never mind anything bigger than that— they don’t tolerate corruption or backhanders. Young Danes are allocated a flat in their 20s- they can keep it, sublet it - whatever— consequently very high divorce rate initiated by women who have somewhere to return to plus £220 a month full time child care. Britain needs a reset, but whilst we have an older population many of whom seem nasty, bitter and xenophobic and can’t bear the idea someone might be getting by without seeming to do much , along with some younger yuppie weirdos going along with the I’m all right jack attitude (usually with rich parents) Britain will have issues— at the moment I can honestly say from across the channel it looks somewhat backward and that’s a shame— it’s better than this!! I personally think Keir Starmer is exactly what is needed, cool, calm, dispassionate and he needs to bring in those who are prepared to concentrate on housing, jobs, international relations and upskilling people—

@OhWhyNot

Poor for a decade

What are you talking about poor for a decade

They also voted for Brexit. You can choose to believe the simplistic arguments about Brexit that all voters are racist and ignore that many many in this country felt left behind

Except I don’t believe that everyone who voted Leave is racist. I think a huge number of them did feel left behind and wanted to give Cameron a bloody nose. Which is why it’s even more astounding that they’d vote Tory.

@Crikeyalmighty

Some utter rubbish spouted on here . Austerity was a manufactured concept to make them look fiscally prudent— strange then that £300 billion found under the sofa for Brexit or you so easily write off £4 billion in loans to your mates or spend £37 billion on a failed Track and Trace without investigation where £37 billion actually went. This bunch are not remotely fiscally prudent- they are raiding the coffers to enrich those like themselves whilst getting uppity at poor families getting an extra £20 a week or daring to have a spare bedroom. I am not some radical lefty either, I vote labour or Lib Dem depending where I live. Currently we live in Copenhagen— UK could learn a lot from here- strict rules for EU workers even on working and staying and £14 an hr minimum wage— high tax, high standards, high services and no our food prices haven’t gone up nor do we have shortages and a very efficient vaccination roll out too—- plus it’s been as much free testing as you wanted and lots of covid controls - 3,600 deaths. Politicians are out on their ear for a 200 euro expense fiddle— never mind anything bigger than that— they don’t tolerate corruption or backhanders. Young Danes are allocated a flat in their 20s- they can keep it, sublet it - whatever— consequently very high divorce rate initiated by women who have somewhere to return to plus £220 a month full time child care. Britain needs a reset, but whilst we have an older population many of whom seem nasty, bitter and xenophobic and can’t bear the idea someone might be getting by without seeming to do much , along with some younger yuppie weirdos going along with the I’m all right jack attitude (usually with rich parents) Britain will have issues— at the moment I can honestly say from across the channel it looks somewhat backward and that’s a shame— it’s better than this!! I personally think Keir Starmer is exactly what is needed, cool, calm, dispassionate and he needs to bring in those who are prepared to concentrate on housing, jobs, international relations and upskilling people—

I agree with much of this but sadly I don't think the UK will ever wake up to it, so I have regretfully decided to leave the UK after 59 years here.