To think a lot of lonely people have brought it on themselves?

[LovelyYellowLabrador]

Just been watching a channel 4 thing on YouTube about lonely people
Most of them were like-no one calls…. They don’t see anyone all day
They maybe have had a marriage where their partner was the only other person they spent time with so when threat person has passed away they have no one else

Just think people need to think more about what they are doing
They expect their adult children to call them all the time and visit
Yet don’t stop to pause to think have I been a good parent am I draining or overly negative

Or they could think right no one’s called me, who am I going to call
How am I going to make and keep some friends

This thread is really quite sad. Yabu.

@PostThenGhost

Illness has meant I haven’t been able to socialise in my 40’s as much as I would have liked.

It’s true what they say, you soon find out who your real friends are. It seems I have none.

I still get contacted when they want to have a moan about how awful things are for them, ask if they can borrow this, that or the other or ask if my DH can do some diy for them but they don’t even send me happy birthday messages.

I’m struggling through with a few part time hours, once I am no longer fit to work I won’t see a soul.

I can relate to that @PostThenGhost.

I have two very good friends. They are in a different cuntry an dwe can only meet up once in the year... Not very helpful :(

Numerous posts about how posters don't need anyone except their DH and DC, find their friends create unnecessary 'drama', find them clingy and needy, find school mums cliquey and terrifying... etc etc.

Basically if you believe MN, a friend being more than a fair weather friend is a pain in the arse.
They don't want to know about issues you might have. They don't want to have to help beause it's too hard. they avoid more vulnreable converstaion.
Basicaly they want aquaintances rather than friends, I suspect because they feel they have a strong enough network around them (from family) to keep them going.

@Kdubs1981 - people describe feeling this way because they essentially don’t feel a sense of authentic connection. It can simply be a room full of people making idle chit chat.,

Interested to read your analysis beyond ‘rubbish’.

@OnwardsAndSideways1

I have also noticed on MN that people have very high expectations of friends. If a friendship circle is active, they have to invite everyone every time or they are not friends. If something bad happens, everyone must not only text immediately, but lots afterwards, arrange meet-ups and be very giving and those that aren't must be cut off.

I tend to take a more pragmatic view: not that you should accept really poor or unpleasant treatment, but that keeping a wide circle of people, some close, some more just friends to hang out with occasionally, and accept not everyone is going to be able to step forward every single time, or many times if you have lots of issues, is better. Sometimes one friend has stepped forward, sometimes I've done it, I also have friends I might not speak to for 6 months, then we reconnect and really enjoy it.

People are very busy, stressed and have their own lives, and the expectations on them as 'friends' can be too burdensome and that's a shame, because I think different types of friendship can be great, and not all have to be in the model of close daily texting, constant inclusion and that you are endlessly emotionally available if there's a crisis. It's just not realistic.

This is so true, @OnwardsAndSideways1! I've learned to accept that I'm not always invited to everything and it doesn't really matter. Also, things happen in people's lives that cause them to pull away and it's often nothing personal, they have things to deal with.

I felt a bit miffed a couple of years ago after I'd got fairly close to someone and she suddenly went quiet. It turned out her daughter was having a rough time at university, then her Mum became ill, etc., etc. She just doesn't have the mental space for newer friendships right now. I still text her periodically and I know she wants to reconnect properly when life is less hectic.

@JanisMoplin - good luck! Finding friends as an adult is very difficult. I went to a book club at the library and it was excruciating. Twice people asked me to move so they could sit next to their friends; the second time there were no more chairs, and I had to go and get one and form a row of one behind everyone else . At the half-time break I stood there smiling pleasantly like a freak as everyone ignored me. I am still cringing with embarrassment three years later.

I think @VelvetChairGirl was right in her observation that so much of life is designed to be online now - or automated - such that little interactions don’t happen.

Agree that life is much more insular. We know no neighbours. I don’t want to hobnob with them, but now people seem actively suspicious of a “good morning”.

@LovelyYellowLabrador sounds like an interesting program. What was it called? Thanks

@Hopeful201

My IL's have no friends and are NC with all of their family including their 2 children, 4 grand children etc. They both had lots of siblings and went NC with them including their own parents. They are deeply unpleasant people and say and do horrible things, I am always amazed how well my DH and his DS have turned out.

But you see the other side of the coin are people like my parents.

All the family (them, their siblings etc...) moves away to different countries.
They (well my dad in particular) had friends where they lived but iot was overseas. They moved here to be close to me but didn't really make friends because of the language barrier (Theyre not british).
They then move back to Europe following Brexit (The fiture looked really uncertain and they didn't want to have to move back in 5~10 years time when they will be in their 80s).

So here they are in another country, no family around and no friends... (Covid obvioulsy hasn't helped either!)

You can be a really person and STILL end up lonely.

I really dislike this automatic association
lonely person = nasty or lonely person=their fault

[quote DottyHarmer]@JanisMoplin - good luck! Finding friends as an adult is very difficult. I went to a book club at the library and it was excruciating. Twice people asked me to move so they could sit next to their friends; the second time there were no more chairs, and I had to go and get one and form a row of one behind everyone else . At the half-time break I stood there smiling pleasantly like a freak as everyone ignored me. I am still cringing with embarrassment three years later.

I think @VelvetChairGirl was right in her observation that so much of life is designed to be online now - or automated - such that little interactions don’t happen.

Agree that life is much more insular. We know no neighbours. I don’t want to hobnob with them, but now people seem actively suspicious of a “good morning”.[/quote]
There was a thread on here where the poster asked for ways to deter her overly friendly neighbour. I read it with complete bewilderment because I thought the neighbour was just being civil and pleasant. I really can't identify with people being so keen to keep all human interaction to a minimum.

*@JanisMoplin - good luck! Finding friends as an adult is very difficult. I went to a book club at the library and it was excruciating. Twice people asked me to move so they could sit next to their friends; the second time there were no more chairs, and I had to go and get one and form a row of one behind everyone else blush. At the half-time break I stood there smiling pleasantly like a freak as everyone ignored me. I am still cringing with embarrassment three years later.8

You see I think that says much more about them than about you. If someone should be cringing, it's them tbh.

But people will tell you you haven't tried hard enough/you are expecting too much etc... so it's your fault.

@OnwardsAndSideways1 I think you're spot on with what you said about there no longer being "third homes".

We've become more of a secular society which is fine but we haven't replaced it with anything. Few people go to church but they don't go anywhere in place of church. There isn't really anywhere to go regularly where you are with like minded people that doesn't cost any money. I don't follow a religion so don't attend church, mosque, etc but I struggle to find somewhere else where I can be part of a community that doesn't involve spending money I don't have.

Loneliness is a huge issue in this country and it spans across the generations; there are people of all ages feeling isolated and cut off. I volunteer for a crisis helpline and most calls are from people who are lonely. We often associate loneliness with the elderly but there are equally very young people who are lonely.

We need more youth clubs and community centres but with all the cuts, it's just not a priority. Also, many are having to work long hours so don't have the time or energy to volunteer to set up community events. From what I've seen, the places with lots of community events tend to be in the picturesque villages full of more affluent people who can afford to either not work or work part time so they have more time to devote to being an active part of the community.

The reality is that the fact we have lonely people is also down the 'I am not lonely Me' people refusing to actually interact with people 'they don't know'.....
People who are not lonely are as much part of the problem as those who are iyswim

Maybe
The poorly lonely neighbour sil brought with her to mils on Christmas because her nasty children didn’t bother with her turned out to be an obnoxious pain in the arse.

[quote Cameleongirl]@fairylightsandwaxmelts I agree that mental health and problems can lead people to be unpleasant, but it doesn't make their behavior any easier to deal with. My Dad can be vicious sometimes, then as nice as pie the next time...and he still expects people to be around!

One of my SIL's is setting herself up for social isolation and her family feel powerless to do anything about it, as her decisions don't make sense to us. She chose to WFH pre-pandemic, so she hardly meets anyone through work; bought a large, expensive house so doesn't have much extra money to go out; no hobbies; hasn't kept up much with old friends...but these are her choices.[/quote]
Oh, absolutely @Cameleongirl.

MH issues are so complex IMO. I feel bad for anyone struggling with mental illness but it can't be used as a get out of jail free card. You need to own your behaviour and not use having depression/bipolar/anxiety as an excuse for being a shitty person.

Sounds like some people have some guilt over not calling Mum and Dad more often and are looking to shift blame.

@ShavingTheBadger

There's lots of reasons - introversion, shyness, other neuro-diverse conditions. Sometimes it's because of caring responsibilities that they can't drop. For me it was all my mates getting married and having kids - you really do feel alone when that happens. It's not black and white.

Neither introversion nor shyness are neurological conditions, any more than extroversion or over-confidence.

I think people at both ends of the spectrum of introversion/extroversion and shyness/confidence suffer from social issues and indeed loneliness. In fact, I'd say I've seen a lot of threads where someone complains about social problems only to be told they are too intense, too upfront.

I just wanted to highlight the fact that introversion so often gets portrayed as an issue when socialising, and extroversion as the norm. Introverts can have lots of friends, and extroverts can have difficulty socialising.

My elderly mum thinks she's lonely but she really isn't. Dad died 10 years ago & she has continued with a very good social life, despite recent restrictions.

She has two regular weekly trips out, two regular monthly trips out, several impromptu social things with her neighbours every month, at least three visits from family members every week which include eating and drinking together & so on.

What she means by feeling lonely is that she doesn't like living alone. She is very sociable & chatty & would be ideally suited to a supported living type community, but she flatly refuses to entertain it.

It's not straightforward, yes, but many people don't even think that they need to make any effort. There may be issues preventing them from doing so but the blame should be on those. Not 'other people' and 'waah waah the world owes me friendship'.

I genuinely don't know anyone who actually thinks like that @sanbeiji

People may SAY those things as a way to hide how they're really feeling, though. It's much, much easier to blame other people than to admit how badly you're struggling with your mental health.

@Spookytooth

I think it's a sort of old fashioned thing that people pop round for a cuppa and a chat. Somehow we seem to be too busy now - possibly due to most women working when 30 years ago many were sah. Imv you need to DO things to meet people - walk, go to church, join a choir etc etc If you don't do anything then you probably won't meet anyone.

I think people want to jump straight to the end result of 'friendship'- the going out/dropping in for coffee stage- without the legwork of going week in, week out to Babygroup/church/choir etc.

They then say the tried all that but it was cliquey, they didn't want anyone new etc. The point is you keep going until eventually you aren't new, and/or you form a new clique with the other later joiners.

Friendship builds from exposure, coincidence, need... it's doesn't just fall into place.

Maybe it's just me, but I feel there were a lot more things to do and go to before mobile phones.

When you try to join a club and you're not really welcome.

@LovelyYellowLabrador

Just been watching a channel 4 thing on YouTube about lonely people Most of them were like-no one calls…. They don’t see anyone all day They maybe have had a marriage where their partner was the only other person they spent time with so when threat person has passed away they have no one else

Just think people need to think more about what they are doing
They expect their adult children to call them all the time and visit
Yet don’t stop to pause to think have I been a good parent am I draining or overly negative

Or they could think right no one’s called me, who am I going to call
How am I going to make and keep some friends

Out of interest, are you a person who makes a point of being welcoming and friendly to people? Do you call new people for a chat, invite them round for coffee, introduce them to all your many existing friends? Are you sensitive to how somebody might be anxious, uncomfortable, shy, Autistic or emerging from a life of coercive control or jealousy? Do you see the awkward body language or less than effusive chatter as something to do with those or their not being interested in you?

Or do you see the person without a friend and assume that because they don't already have a friend, there must be something wrong with them and, in any case, you're far too busy with your active social life and existing friendships to be encouraging another one?

@GrendelsGrandma

Does it matter if they brought it on themselves? It only matters that people find a way out.

Loneliness is a trap. Once you're in it, you need company so much that it scares people off. Then you become a bit unused to people and come across as strange. Then you might become angry or bitter that you tried to make friends but they rejected you for being too needy or weird.

It's a bit like saying homeless people just need a roof over their heads - maybe for a small proportion but for many people it's a complex situation that can't be put right overnight. For example mental or physical health issues, mobility problems, poverty, fear of going out etc.

This is so true

I watch a lot of the Talking Pictures channel (old films and tv programmes - very good!) and they have a segment called Glimpses which is old information films. I saw one on Social Clubs (attached to workplaces or communities) and thought how marvellous they were. Not just the usual table tennis, but people doing Shakespeare courses, woodworking (both sexes), all sorts of hobbies.

My ds as a 22-year-old would like something like this. He is wfh and has no “real” work colleagues. His friends are all stuck in their bedrooms too, and the only socialising option is the pub which is expensive. Ds is panicking he will be one of “those” blokes aged 40 in his parents’ house and he’ll never find a girlfriend

Interesting. I'm curently in my 40's, married, living in a rural area and have significantly fewer friends than I would like.
The circumstances outside of my control for this are

• friends have started families - so aren't available.

-Childless- not by choice-but this is very limiting in terms of meeting people at this stage of life -Many friends have moved away/out of country - a factor of my career -DH is introverted - has no interest in going out, having people around etc -Covid - means dropping many of the social acquaintances as we limited contacts. -Rural - meaning no public transport and no clubs/organisation unless you have kids. -Rural -means having longer commuting times and less available free time - but was the only place we could afford to buy.

There are many circumstances outside of the persons control that shrinks your social circle - even for someone who is "outgoing" and NT.

I've seen several comments on MN about not knowing your neighbours at all, and I've always wondered why people don't want to know them?

I don't know everyone on our street, but I know a fair few and chat to them -- we're not bosom buddies and we don't regularly socialise, but we have friendly chats. It's meant that we're been able to help each other in emergencies - like when someone's wife fell down the steps in the dark and I babysat while they went to hospital; same when DS hit his head, I left DD with a neighbour and she had a lovely time. I don't know why some people reject these connections.