To think a lot of lonely people have brought it on themselves?

[LovelyYellowLabrador]

Just been watching a channel 4 thing on YouTube about lonely people
Most of them were like-no one calls…. They don’t see anyone all day
They maybe have had a marriage where their partner was the only other person they spent time with so when threat person has passed away they have no one else

Just think people need to think more about what they are doing
They expect their adult children to call them all the time and visit
Yet don’t stop to pause to think have I been a good parent am I draining or overly negative

Or they could think right no one’s called me, who am I going to call
How am I going to make and keep some friends

You have no idea op.

I find making friends difficult due to ASC.

Two of my children are a flight away.

One lives with me part time but is at university during semesters.

I am physically disabled and have to be careful not to tire myself out.

I don’t have a partner and all my friends are partnered up and the sole single isn’t welcome.

It’s not as simple as you portray it.

It’s sad, but not dreadfully sad, @Notanewusertool

I’m not sure why you feel obliged to help.

But regardless, communal living isn’t for everyone!

It really isn't that simple.

My mother is quite lonely. It makes me very sad really although my sister and I do what we can, and I am just back from a weekend visiting her.

She and my Dad were soulmates and married for over 60 years. He died last March and she has floundered a fair bit since. She cannot drive anymore due to medical and eyesight issues. She has COPD, osteoporosis and osteoarthritis so cannot walk far either and relies on a wheelchair or her mobility scooter if she does go out.

She sank into depression in the weeks following my Dad's death and tried to disguise it whenever my sister and I were visiting. It became clear over time though and she is now on antidepressants, which are helping a fair bit as far as I can tell.

There are other factors at play too, but it would take all day to go into.

I'll just reiterate that it is rarely a simple equation.

I imagine your point is only relevant to a few people op - the ones who cba nurturing friendships, the ones who are too quick to cut people off.

For most, there will be a big life event that changes their circumstances, or a gradual decline that they barely noticed until it's too late.

IME some older people suffer a decline in confidence. They don't want to bother anyone or impose. New situations can seem intimidating. I think you are being very harsh actually.

I think there are complex reasons for loneliness. Friends having children has definitely impacted me - I'm happy for them, of course, but it does have a massive impact on friendships, seemingly especially with people who don't have children themselves. In some cases I've just resigned myself to mostly messages and calls with far fewer meet ups and visits for the time being, with the hope that when the children are a bit older then these friends will have more time and desire for child-free trips and adult company.

I think the decline of the idea of the "third place", somewhere else you "live" other than work and home (like regularly visiting the local pub as a staple activity), also doesn't help. It was already the case and I suspect Covid has hastened its demise, especially now so many people work at home (and so even work-based friendships are harder to nurture). Covid also seems to have led to an increase in what someone aptly described above as "Fortress Families" - nuclear family units who exclude outsiders beyond a superficial level of contact/closeness. I prefer to have a group of close friends even when in a relationship rather than transferring all emotional closeness to a partner, but many people do the latter (and then can find themselves lonely if their relationship ends - or jump straight into a new one, sometimes an unhealthy one, to avoid the sudden loneliness).

It does feel like we're becoming more like little separate family/couple/individual units as the years go on, and that making friends in the community involves specific efforts like joining clubs.

@VelvetChairGirl the point is, the law doesn't say that more then 3 people hanging around in the street is classed as an illegal gathering which can be dispersed. If you think the police have misapplied the law then that's another matter.

If your house was burgled and the police didn't do a very good job investigating it, you wouldn't say 'there's a new law saying that burglary is legal'.

My mother is 90. All but one of her friends and a handful of slightly younger cousins, who lives miles away, have died.

I think you make some interesting points. I am an introvert and struggle with friendship but I force myself to make the effort. I don’t overdo it but I try and go out with friends once a month or so. If I didn’t do this I wouldn’t see anyone except husband and kids.

I have sympathy for lonely people but think it’s not always easy to solve. I worked in a place where lonely individuals would come in and try and dominate all your time as they were desperate for a chat. Even for the most patient person it’s hard to give them the attention they need. People can be very self absorbed and draining. I think a lot of people accusing you of being mean have no idea what it means to spend time with intensely needy people.

It’s very sad that people are lonely. I sure for most through no fault of their own. But I also think personal responsibility plays a big part. You have to be pro active in looking after yourself. A lot of people don’t want to do the hard work.

What on earth makes a person think "I know, I'll have a go at lonely people today!"

You're being incredibly ignorant and unkind. People are complicated, they have all sort of impairments and personal demons and psychological scars that make it difficult to manage relationships. It's very common to be unable to cope with interacting with other people while being suicidally miserable about it. What do you expect to achieve by rubbing it in?

Old person here, long time married. Moved around a bit, so no friends from childhood, made some in younger days, but moved away, so they drifted. I have a couple of friends who I see intermittently, and none of my family live locally. DC and DGC are a couple of hours away. I’m preparing for the possibility I may be widowed at some point. I’ve been volunteering for years, even before I retired, and I also go to fitness classes. However, I totally understand that some people have health issues that may preclude them from taking part, but for those who are reasonably healthy, there are plenty of volunteering opportunities.

DH and I purposely don’t live in each other’s pockets. I’ve seen too many older people whose partner has died having no idea how to live the rest of their lives.

As an introvert I do kind of see your point as I have actively pushed people away because I felt I didn't need their presence in my life. I haven't pursued certain friendships because I've been happy with the small circle of friends and family that I have got and haven't got the emotional energy for any more. I rely on my husband and children for most of my company so if I didn't have them I wouldn't have many proper friends to fall back on. Despite knowing this though, it doesn't seem to make me want to change

I think it's a mix. I know 2 people who feel very lonely. One, my mother, brought it on herself. She puts no effort into relationships at all. She expects everyone else to put in the effort and come to her. Then when they do, all she does is bitches and moans about everyone who doesn't. When you have 8 children, most of them living nearby, but none of them come to see you, you have to look at yourself and question why.

Then there's my adult DD. She has lots of friends but still feels extremely lonely. She is autistic and I think the loneliness is because she's aware that she doesn't connect with her friends fully. There's something missing in her relationships. She's not lacking friends but she is lacking a certain intimacy. It's not a loneliness of her own making.

I don't think social media helps. People spend too much time cultivating virtual relationships with people they don't know and who may not be who they say they are.
Look at all the family and friend threads on here where posters (who obviously don't have solid friendships or family relationships) urge others to cut people off over the most trivial misunderstandings. Often advice on those threads is designed to create the most drama possible rather than offering genuine support.
Relationships and friendships take work and effort on all sides. And there are lots of factors that can impact how people relate to each other. It's easy to end up lonely - friends can move away; family can feel too busy to return the effort; the sense of community is eroded in most places. Turning from local, community or church structures to building nebulous groups online has a massive impact on loneliness in real life.

I don’t think OP is saying “it’s simple” or “easy”. I think she’s saying the opposite. That most people have to work hard to build and keep social networks.
Most of us cringe like crazy making small talk with strangers but we force ourselves to do it because some of those strangers can become good friends and those who don’t can still be valued acquaintances.
Most people have busy lives and struggle to find time for friendship but making the effort even if we’d rather stay home reaps rewards in return.

I think loneliness is a ver complex issue.

It's no si0ly who can I call today.

@Doggydoodah123

As an introvert I do kind of see your point as I have actively pushed people away because I felt I didn't need their presence in my life. I haven't pursued certain friendships because I've been happy with the small circle of friends and family that I have got and haven't got the emotional energy for any more. I rely on my husband and children for most of my company so if I didn't have them I wouldn't have many proper friends to fall back on. Despite knowing this though, it doesn't seem to make me want to change

Thing is though, and with great respect to you as you seem very self aware about your attitude, this mindset can be pretty toxic. You see so many posts on here from slightly defensive people who seem to see the idea of having a social life outside the family as odd.

My mother relied on her husband and slowly froze out other friends over time, partly because of distance, partly because she was embarrassed by his behaviour when drunk (which was fairly often) and partly probably the reasons you describe, and she eventually died basically friendless.

Its understandable, particularly in the current circumstances, that people, particularly introverts, feel overloaded by lots of social contact and try to rationalise this a bit. But it's also pretty dangerous for this to become the default.

There are so many women in particular who put all their eggs in the family basket after marriage and for whatever reason let their female friendships peter out. It's something we need to educate our daughters against doing because its really not healthy.

Life is so much more vital and strong when there are other strong bonds available to you outside the family. And you have an insurance network in place if the worst should happen.

I’m in a very fortunate position in that I do have a lot of friends but I really do work at that. There seems to be a theme here that friendships fade out and are therefore lost but if you were friends and had things in common once then you probably still do.

Last week I met a friend from 25 years ago. We’ve had extremely sporadic meetings in the last 20 odd years and I hadn’t seen her for six years but we had a great catch up and will see each other again in a few months.

It’s whether people are willing to reach out- my own widowed mother is terrible at this, she has an underlying fear of rejection- to reconnect or indeed connect in the first place. It’s certainly much harder for some people.

@EmmaH2022 you say the lockdowns have lost you friends, is it really too late to message those people and say you’ve missed them and would love to catch up?

Hmm….

I’d say you haven’t walked in their shoes and have no idea of what’s going in in their life.

Id say my gran was lonely at the end of her life. All her dcs were living abroad, her friends and family members if the same age had all died. So yes she was lonely.
Do you think she brought it on herself?

I am lonely. I’m struggling to get out of the house, can’t work. Once my dcs will have left home, either I separate from DH or he dies before me, I’ll be extremely lonely. Did I bring that on my own?

Etc etc etc.

if it was me I'd be taking steps to sell the large valuable house she lives in and move into a lovely place with communal gardens and a warden

Maybe she's not ready for that. My DGM took a long time to get over my DGF death, and she was on anti-depressants for a while. The immediate aftermath - and your neighbour is only a few months in - is not the time to be making major, lifechanging decisions.

[quote JesusInTheCabbageVan]@VelvetChairGirl the point is, the law doesn't say that more then 3 people hanging around in the street is classed as an illegal gathering which can be dispersed. If you think the police have misapplied the law then that's another matter.

If your house was burgled and the police didn't do a very good job investigating it, you wouldn't say 'there's a new law saying that burglary is legal'.[/quote]
your burglary example makes no sense unless you think police should arrest anyone who stands around on a residential street corner in case they might be burglars

Most of us cringe like crazy making small talk with strangers but we force ourselves to do it because some of those strangers can become good friends and those who don’t can still be valued acquaintances.

Sorry but I have never seen anyone doing that in the U.K.
The ‘strangers’ people are talking to are not strangers as such. They are other parents on the school playground, work colleagues they might know well. Sometimes people who are sharing the same hobby (and even then it depends on the hobby).

@BorderlineHappy

It just doesn't happen overnight. You don't wake up one morning and poof you're alone.

Usually happens in dribs and drabs.
Life gets in the way.
Plus there's only so many times you can get knocked back.
You then retreat in to yourself and so it continues.

Funnily enough it did for me. I was bullied in school, basically became ostracised. Didn't make any friends in college. I've been friendly with people I work with over the years but they or I have left contact hasn't been maintained for more than a few months/a year, and that's not only me not contacting them.

It does feel like we're becoming more like little separate family/couple/individual units as the years go on, and that making friends in the community involves specific efforts like joining clubs.

And that only works if you are fitting the mould. If you don’t fit in, the doors automatically close in front of you. You just have to see all the threads on MN with people wanting to make new friends only to be brushed away. And posters saying ‘it’s normal. They already have their friends so why make an effort for them?’

It definitely isn't simple, and there are so many reasons from the medical to the circumstantial why people can be lonely. But as a non-lonely person, looking at how I go about my life, I sent 2 messages to friends this morning (one of whom has had a medical procedure and one of whom has a big event this week) just asking them how the thing went / hoping it was going to go well. I didn't expect replies (although I got them). I woke up thinking about them and wondering how they were. It took me 60 seconds in total but I know it will have made a difference to their day. I don't understand why more people don't do that.

@ADisgruntledPelican

I don't think social media helps.

On the contrary, I think it could be the answer for a lot of people, especially the introverts. I've got loads of "virtual" friends on various different web forums, social media apps, etc., for a few different hobbies. I very much doubt I'll ever meet any of them in real life, but I have daily contact with some of them. At my current stage in life, I've got family, a few friends, and work/business to keep me content so don't really "need" the virtual friends for friendship as such, but it's good to get hints & tips etc re the hobbies and I know some of them are lonely so I like to have a bit of online chat with them. I'd like to hope that when I finally retire and have fewer friends/family around, then I'd benefit from a few virtual friends to chat to online too, in return.