To think a lot of lonely people have brought it on themselves?

[LovelyYellowLabrador]

Just been watching a channel 4 thing on YouTube about lonely people
Most of them were like-no one calls…. They don’t see anyone all day
They maybe have had a marriage where their partner was the only other person they spent time with so when threat person has passed away they have no one else

Just think people need to think more about what they are doing
They expect their adult children to call them all the time and visit
Yet don’t stop to pause to think have I been a good parent am I draining or overly negative

Or they could think right no one’s called me, who am I going to call
How am I going to make and keep some friends

TheApex ... by 'giving nothing back' I mean no real conversation, constant moaning, negative attitude, never suggesting doing anything. Most friendships develop through shared interests, having things in common or at least having interesting things to talk about. I understand people are shy and reserved but if you go out to coffee with someone surely it is good manners to at least make some effort with the conversation?

Certainly @Ragwort.

I think sometimes the issue comes from what is expected from that friendship.
I mean just reading MN you realise that people have widely different expectations form their friendships. Some expect a friend to text right back, others don’t.
Some feel that proposing to meet up, do X and Y is overwhelming and the friendship is overbearing whilst others will think it’s just someone being enthusiastic etc….

Sometimes it’s easy to misjudge what the other is expecting. And people have little patience for those who don’t expect the same level of involvement in the friendship.

So to your earlier question about how to help those who are lonely, I suspect being more relaxed about ‘how things should be in a friendship ’ would be a good start (general comment, not aimed at you personally iyswim)

@TheApexOfMyLife I agree that being more relaxed about friendships is a positive ting - that doesn't mean being taken advantage of, just not getting overly upset when people don't behave as you hope they will.

I was planning to go out with a small group tomorrow night, but I've just had a call to say that one person has dropped out as her DH wants to do something else instead. She was apologetic, but essentially, the girls have been ditched! But we're not bothered, we'll have a good time regardless - there's no point getting offended, especially when someone doesn't have form for this.

Life is complicated, sometimes partners have to come first.

Its hard our mum is 80. Not much in her age group. We do what we can. Im trying have a few interests and not rely on 1 friend. My friend husb retired so that was hurtful as feel I dont see her now. Im 48. Its def hard as we age. Our mum is negative as are some of that age.

@PussGirl Mon 31-Jan-22 16:06:18
What she means by feeling lonely is that she doesn't like living alone. She is very sociable & chatty & would be ideally suited to a supported living type community, but she flatly refuses to entertain it.

If your mother lives in a University town and would consider a lodger, she could look to see if the companionship scheme runs there (where an older person has a student lodger as company and the student gets more affordable accommodation).

Someone upthread gave an example of a Positive Person, Doris I think it was, who would go to live in a retirement community and make lots of friends etc.

A) those retirement places a la Thursday Murder Club are £££££££. One near me has flats at £800k plus all the extras. My granny lived in a council one and, ahem, it was not very her .

B) some people are not “joiners”. That’s not to say they don’t enjoy having company, but I know those retirement places can be just like school. I got talking to a lady at the hospital who was visiting a friend, and she said that there was the “Barbara’s sitting here” thing, and “Oh, sorry, the bridge club is full” etc etc. That would be more depressing than sitting by yourself in your too-large and I heated family home!!

@MuddlingMackem - that is an excellent idea, thanks

No University but there is an agricultural college nearby

@PussGirl, hope it works for her. :)

@Coffeepot72

If I didn’t have children and was worried about old age I’d make sure that pension pot was full and plan a comfortable retirement as far as financially possible.

@JustDanceAddict we're quite well sorted financially, but its the fear of being 'the only one left' that worries me, and no amount of money can guard against everyone dying before me! So even though I have a nice group of friends now, I'm adamant I'll trying to keep maintain a decent circle, for as long as I'm able.

That is very true. Although with money you can pick a nice retirement home and make connections there. MIL (85) needs to do this, but won’t as she’s a stubborn old goat and has her other son waiting on her hand and foot (he has no life!).

@DottyHarmer, I think that sort of environment will attract certain persons. For others, it’s their idea of a nightmare.
Let’s not forget that we are talking about elderly who are much more set in their ways etc. there. I’m pretty sure that if someone arrives and don’t quite ‘fit’ they would find the place heartsinking.

My parents have planned their retirement with the idea that they will get some help in and will stay in their house for as long as possible. Their comment has always been ‘but those places are full of old people’ 😩😩

And that’s the thing. It’s easy for an outsider to say that it’s the solution because you’re not alone etc… but for a lot of people living ‘in a community’ has never worked and will never work.

Well,
I am going to a WI meeting tomorrow off the back of this.

Perhaps it's a lot to do with your upbringing and whether your parents had friends, were outgoing, sociable and 'joiners'. My DM is 89 this year but she has always had loads of friends, joined everything going, volunteered etc etc. she was an only DC but her DPs (my DGPs) were also active and busy. My DM, widowed recently, but active in the community, goes to yoga, theatre, bridge and looking for ways to 'help old people' . So for me, it was the norm to always make the effort, find new hobbies and organisations to join .. that's how I met my DH, through a shared hobby, and our DS (also an only DC) is the same ... he's doing his 'sandwich year' out from Uni and really finds it easy to join things and make new friends.

Perhaps if you haven't had the 'model' of making friends then it is clearly not so easy.

@Ragwort

Perhaps it's a lot to do with your upbringing and whether your parents had friends, were outgoing, sociable and 'joiners'. My DM is 89 this year but she has always had loads of friends, joined everything going, volunteered etc etc. she was an only DC but her DPs (my DGPs) were also active and busy. My DM, widowed recently, but active in the community, goes to yoga, theatre, bridge and looking for ways to 'help old people' . So for me, it was the norm to always make the effort, find new hobbies and organisations to join .. that's how I met my DH, through a shared hobby, and our DS (also an only DC) is the same ... he's doing his 'sandwich year' out from Uni and really finds it easy to join things and make new friends.

Perhaps if you haven't had the 'model' of making friends then it is clearly not so easy.

I think that’s very true. It’s also hard when one person in a couple had very sociable parents and the other didn’t.

Nah
I think some people are introvert and others aren’t.
Some people have similar common interests and others are unusual interest.
Some people will always find it harder to find people with shared interest.

I know my mum would not have a lodger. Very set in her ways. Would go mad the shower going late if a student!! Some people are easy some not.

@DaisyChains3

Well, I am going to a WI meeting tomorrow off the back of this.

Brilliant!

@Ragwort

Perhaps it's a lot to do with your upbringing and whether your parents had friends, were outgoing, sociable and 'joiners'. My DM is 89 this year but she has always had loads of friends, joined everything going, volunteered etc etc. she was an only DC but her DPs (my DGPs) were also active and busy. My DM, widowed recently, but active in the community, goes to yoga, theatre, bridge and looking for ways to 'help old people' . So for me, it was the norm to always make the effort, find new hobbies and organisations to join .. that's how I met my DH, through a shared hobby, and our DS (also an only DC) is the same ... he's doing his 'sandwich year' out from Uni and really finds it easy to join things and make new friends.

Perhaps if you haven't had the 'model' of making friends then it is clearly not so easy.

For me, I think it worked the opposite way. I've always been determined I'd never be like her - self induced loneliness because of her negativity and criticism.

She seems genuinely astounded that I spend time with my friends and that we care about each other. She's a funny fish!

@NoPaintedPony

I’m surprised how many people posting assume that widowhood only happens in older age. Unfortunately I’m part of a group that nobody wants to be part of when my husband died suddenly at an early age. Prior to this I had many friends & most of them disappeared afterwards. To say that loneliness is brought on due to lack of effort, old age or mental health issues is very simplistic & ignorant.

I'm sorry for your loss. May I ask though whether your friends who disappeared are all married and only want to socialise with couples? It might not be your case, but some married people ditch their single friends at some point.

@Barney60

NO older people have NOT brought in on them selves. Its up to family to keep in touch with older members, its simply the pecking order, the more you visit the more they will open up and stop being lonely, older people are the same as young people in older aching creaking bodys. Ive recently read a post on here about someone in their 40s feeling invisable, how do you think those much older feel. I think its very sad no one has time for elders any more. We used to HAVE to visit elders every weekend, i hated it but as i got older learnt to love it, they have so much wisdom, knowledge, humour. Only in the West do we do this, other countries respect/care/look after their elders.

The young and middle aged have just sacrificed two years of a social life for that generation.

@Ceramide

But the WI is struggling in some areas due to lack of new members, I would love to hear, on this anonymous forum, what the issues are, why more women don't want want to join ... please be honest.

Does the WI lean any particular way in terms of values, politics, religion etc? Is there a certain 'type' who would join?

Associated with old people. I mentioned above that I went to a women's club once. This one was aimed at younger-ish women, 30s-50s say. I've also been to a women's dining club. I realised that for me as a single woman it would be better to socialise in mixed groups.

"That was one of the problems with inter-generational groups - those of us that were younger wanted to meet at 8pm on a weeknight after work and children's bedtimes. Working full time meant we didn't really want to meet at a weekend as that was family time."

I was in a group that used to meet around 6.30 after work. Some of them had children and wanted to move it to 8.30 after bedtime. That was no good for me as I had no inclination to go out in the cold at that time of night in the winter once I'd already been home. Then of course the ones with children stopped coming at all (to begin with they had alternated one parent each time).

I was in another group that met in a distant suburb with a bus every half hour instead of the city centre where I could have walked and there were many options for public transport. I was totally baffled by the choice, but they wanted to drive there and had to go further out to find a place with a car park.

So yes, you have to find people in a similar life stage and similar-ish lifestyle.

"In my experience it’smuch harder to make friends in cities."

Well there are more clubs and groups and more chance to find people similar to you rather than people who live close by but that you have nothing in common with.
But I suppose you're not all going to the same pub and then bumping into each other in the street the next day and working with their brother and things like that.
Cities can be anonymous and unfriendly.

"I do meet people who say they are 'lonely' and do all the usual things like inviting them to coffee, suggesting groups, interests etc ... but if they still remain negative and 'give nothing back in the way of friendship' do I have to continue to seeing them? I know that sounds harsh written down but some people are totally draining to be around. What would other people do in this situation, how can we, as a society, help to overcome loneliness?"

Meet them in a small group then it doesn't matter much if they don't say much back. I have a 'friend' who doesn't say much. It's awful if it's just me and her, but OK if there are others.

@D0lphine

Read "Elinor Oliphant is completely fine".

Great book about loneliness. Technically Elinor would fall into the category of it being "her fault" because she is a difficult person, judgmental of others and acts superior.

However, when you get to know her history it all makes sense. She discussed her traumatic childhood, upbringing in care, lack of socialisation, lack of trust in people etc.

Slight spoiler!

Yes, but I was disappointed in that book. I thought it was about a pretty ordinary person who was lonely. I could relate, but of course it turned out that she had very serious issues that went beyond that. And I thought it was a tired cliche that the two who were good friends ended up a couple.

Gwen - I have tried that but I've found that some people only want to meet 'one to one' ... they seem to be very needy and it's as if they want to make a 'best friend' immediately and don't want to share with other people or try new activities. I've known a couple of people locally who continually complain they are lonely and don't have any friends but just won't do anything... been going on for five years ! I know Covid made it difficult but I've honestly lost patience with trying to offer suggestions that always get rebuffed. You can only do so much and I would rather mix with people who enjoyed life and had a positive approach.