To think a lot of lonely people have brought it on themselves?

[LovelyYellowLabrador]

Just been watching a channel 4 thing on YouTube about lonely people
Most of them were like-no one calls…. They don’t see anyone all day
They maybe have had a marriage where their partner was the only other person they spent time with so when threat person has passed away they have no one else

Just think people need to think more about what they are doing
They expect their adult children to call them all the time and visit
Yet don’t stop to pause to think have I been a good parent am I draining or overly negative

Or they could think right no one’s called me, who am I going to call
How am I going to make and keep some friends

Meredith no, sorry ... but have a look on the NFWI website to find your local WI, get in touch and go along for a 'taster' meeting ... you might enjoy it.

@Larryyourwaiter

I also went to my local WI and the average age was about 80, I lasted 2 meetings. I have a friend who was travelling to one with a younger dynamic but it is 40 miles away and honestly I could not be arsed. Personally I think I would do better in a city making friends than where I live.

In my experience it’smuch harder to make friends in cities.

@restingbitchface30

There are tons of factors why people are lonely. I’m not lonely because I have my partner and children but if I didn’t I think I’d be incredibly lonely. I have no friends because I let no one in. I have been hurt so much in the past I don’t want to let anyone in now. My family are horrid. Like beyond horrid. My partners family don’t really bother with me. So loneliness isn’t always someone’s fault. I don’t think it would be my fault but the failures of so many people over the years.

So agree with this. Was horribly bullied in school , siblings also still bully me and I’ve read so much about this where people are bullied well into their 70s by siblings. Interestingly I’ve also read if you’ve been bullied ie by siblings , it’s likely you will get bullied elsewhere in life and of course this makes sense if it started in the home with people who are supposed to love you and that you can trust. I’m the youngest with my siblings being a good bit older , my eldest brother and sister gang up on me at every chance so I now try not to be in a room on my own with them. SIL is also a complete bitch to me and they have all raised their kids to disrespect me and cheek me up. My view on other people is now so low I only trust my hubby.

@LuluBlakey1

I am an only child, born to older parents. My parents are dead. I have no siblings, no grandparents, no aunts and uncles and only one cousin in this country- who lives 300 miles away.

An estranged uncle's wife is still alive - although frail and very elderly. I help her since his death because she would have no one otherwise, but she uses me rather than has any affection for me. She has no other family.

It is incredibly difficult to be in this position. I am no one's daughter, grandaughter sister, aunt, sister-in law. It felt, until I met DH that I was almost invisible . Most people gain their support and sense of mattering and identity from their family contact. When you have none you can feel like you just do not matter.

I have friends- all of whom had families for high days and holidays. Now I have DH and his family- his parents are very nice, decent oeople but they are not my family. There is no one who I can reminisce with about my childhood- no one who knew my parents and grand-parents, no one who remembers what I remember or shared those experiences. There is no one who rings me on Christmas Morning or my birthday because I am their family and matter to them.

This probably all sounds self-pitying, it isn't meant to. It's just how it is and I have grown used to it. Even having DH and now our DC, I still feel it. I think I have quite a hard inner shell because of it.

I am perfectly capable of ringing friends or going for a chat with my MIL. But on Christmas morning- it is DH's phone she rings or FIL rings, or his sister rings.

I was ill a few weeks ago, had quite a nasty accident that could have killed me. It struck me that if not for DH, no one would have been very interested. I spoke to my cousin and told them, never heard anything since. My uncle's wife asked when I would be well enough to do her shopping again. PIL asked DH is they could help. Couple of friends texted once each to ask what had happened and was I ok and that was it.

It is lonely. Most of the time, I don't mind it. I never mention it. I have never told DH or anyone else how I feel about it- I don't want to sound self-pitying. but apart from DH I don't feel I matter to anyone for being me.

I am sorry to read this . I also think your aunt is very cold asking when you could do her shopping after you had an accident. I hope she at least remembers to thank you from time to time. You do matter to your DH and DC and one day on Christmas morning it will be your DC ringing you . You will probably have grandchildren and so you are building a bigger picture. Kudos to you , you sound like you,won’t be offloading or guilt tripping to your child.. something my mother has done my whole life. My father and mother are not in a loving relationship and all my life she has used me as her councillor or tells me she will be lonely if I go to work etc.

*it is incredibly difficult to be in this position. I am no one's daughter, grandaughter sister, aunt, sister-in law. It felt, until I met DH that I was almost invisible . Most people gain their support and sense of mattering and identity from their family contact. When you have none you can feel like you just do not matter.

I have friends- all of whom had families for high days and holidays. Now I have DH and his family- his parents are very nice, decent oeople but they are not my family. There is no one who I can reminisce with about my childhood- no one who knew my parents and grand-parents, no one who remembers what I remember or shared those experiences*

————————

I could have written this. I do my best to cultivate friendships because if anything ever happened to DH, I’d be totally on my own due to no family network. Luckily I have some nice friends but they all have their own families. It’s not my fault I have no siblings or parents but I do my best to make the best of it. This thread has really made me think, and sadly some people are very judgemental

Read "Elinor Oliphant is completely fine".

Great book about loneliness. Technically Elinor would fall into the category of it being "her fault" because she is a difficult person, judgmental of others and acts superior.

However, when you get to know her history it all makes sense. She discussed her traumatic childhood, upbringing in care, lack of socialisation, lack of trust in people etc.

@XenoBitch

An old married work colleague of mine never had any children as she was too selfish

This always baffles me. How is someone being selfish by not having children?

Because some people are so self absorbed they can’t think of anyone else except themselves. They are totally incapable of putting anyone other than themselves first. I know a man exactly like that.

I think you are incredibly offensive with your assertions. You don’t seem to have been disadvantaged in anyway and are coming at this from your life experience. I am a single parent and have two children, one of whom is autistic- it is amazing the amount of people don’t want to be around you and your child because they don’t fit social norms. Lots of people post on social media about being inclusive etc but in my experience very few are, coupled with Covid where everyone has knuckled down and isolated it has been very lonely.

I’ve also seen my grandad who was extremely popular, head of various clubs disappear off the radar. It started with funerals becoming his main social occasion and then he had a stoke and he just deteriorated. He developed dementia and become very lonely because being honest it makes people uncomfortable and they stopped visiting 😢 He is now in a care home and during Covid has been incredibly isolated and the care home have developed strategies for keeping everyone out as much as possible. You will never understand the effect unless your loved one has been in a care home.

You seem to lack a lot of empathy in my opinion- there may be some people who’s actions have caused them to be lonely- but most is circumstantial and the society we find ourselves in today. Loneliness has been recognized as one of the biggest social issues of our time, which is why the government employed the first ever minister for loneliness!

You need to stop blaming individuals and look wider to the sort of society we have become.

@Ragwort

Thank you for the honest feedback regarding WIs, I agree, there are many different WIs and it is important to find your 'fit' .. for the record we don't sing Jerusalem at the one I attend and most of the committee are leftie Guardian readers ... but I understand that it's a real 'image' problem. There are some really progressive WIs out there ... as for the WI that didn't welcome new committee members, that is shocking, I would love to step down from our committee if someone else would step up!

LOL at Jerusalem. Read the words. It's pretty anti-religious but no one seems to realise.

@Whelmed

I worry about being lonely when I'm older, most of my friendships are from work/school so once those finish, there's not much left for me as it stands so I do need to make more effort to get involved in other things.

I know some older men who are desperately lonely now but totally ruined their relationships with children and relatives when they were younger due to their own selfish behaviour. And I see some men doing this atm, behaving selfishly and I won't be surprised if their DC go NC when they're older.

No doubt true, but there's more to the picture.

I'm male, and I've found striking up new male acquaintances increasingly difficult over the years. For example, for the last 7 years I've played in a cricket team. In this time we've never met other than for matches. I know next to nothing about them - not even their wives' names. I find that typical - easy to meet other men as part of a group activity but the socialising never goes beyond the activity.

Women are much easier to get to know.

I have church too, but the reality is that everyone is getting very old.

DW I think regards me as her best friend, which is nice. I'd be happier if she had a few others too, but she seems happy as she is.

Because some people are so self absorbed they can’t think of anyone else except themselves. They are totally incapable of putting anyone other than themselves first. I know a man exactly like that.

In that case, it’s just as well they haven’t had children then….

@LuluBlakey1, @Coffeepot72, same boat here too except for the fact my parents are still here (but are getting older….).

That’s one reason why I really wanted to have two dcs. Nothing could tell me whether they would be close as adults. Tbf, I still don’t know that BUT at least they’ve had that opportunity. Being an only child (Esp when your parents were only children themselves) makes your family much smaller. And that means your support network much smaller.

I’d also say that true, deep friendship is rare. I think that if you have one or two very close friends (the type you can ring at any time etc…) you are doing well.
The others come and go ime depending on interest, circumstances etc… and yes drop out if things get harder.
Seeing how things always get harder as you get older, there is no wonder friendship disappear and people get more and more lonely as they get older.

I agree it’s a combination of factors as well
-being old and friends dying
-being older and too negative (MIL I’m
Looking at you!) so people cba
-friends moving away or moving yourself for work

• working from home so not building relationships in the office

-being shy or neurodivergent so not making friends easily

• being a ‘difficult’ person

I only have my ‘immediate’ family ie dh and kids due to most of them being dead(!) and being an only child, but I do have many friends and I make sure I put effort in with new people too if I feel a ‘connection’. I am lucky as I have had lonely times in my life but not now as I’m in ‘midlife’. The worst time as an adult was my DD’s first year. Only two ‘old’ friends had kids and I had to make such an effort to go to baby groups etc.

Joined a virtual WI when it began. Was ignored in the main meeting when everyone introduced themselves. - sorry we haven’t got time for you. I joined the book group and was told I was not welcome because I was an English teacher.

@Coffeepot72

DH and I don’t have children, and neither of us have brothers or sisters. I work damn hard at making friends, as I have no family network to fall back on. Obviously one of us will die before the other, and I often worry about how old age will pan out for us.

Similar here although we have children and dh has a small family there is negligible family on my side so I make sure I nurture my friendships and I keep in touch w the one living aunt I have (who lives abroad). If I didn’t have children and was worried about old age I’d make sure that pension pot was full and plan a comfortable retirement as far as financially possible. I also don’t want to rely on my children for old age ‘company’ I want them to visit out of pleasure, not duty (and they may live miles away, dd is certainly putting down roots in her uni city).

I have quite a few friends, who I’d class as genuine close friends but I feel like I’m the one who always makes the effort. No one else suggests meeting up but when I do suggest, it’s met with enthusiasm.
I’m someone who loves to go out and meet up with people, so I go to the effort but if I didn’t, I think I’d feel lonely too.

I must admit I do envy those with large close-knit families. Dm had a big family and thus thought having friends was “silly” . The trouble with her big family though is it got too big, in that if you have eight siblings they all form their own dynasties and no longer have time for brothers and sisters.

What practical steps can be taken to genuinely help to avoid other peoples loneliness?

As I stated earlier in this thread, I recognise I am fortunate in that I am confident, happy to join in new things, volunteer etc and, despite moving several times (I live nowhere near my family) have managed to accumulate a wide circle of friends and acquaintances.

I do meet people who say they are 'lonely' and do all the usual things like inviting them to coffee, suggesting groups, interests etc ... but if they still remain negative and 'give nothing back in the way of friendship' do I have to continue to seeing them? I know that sounds harsh written down but some people are totally draining to be around. What would other people do in this situation, how can we, as a society, help to overcome loneliness?

Can I ask What do you mean by 'give nothing back'?

I wonder if some of the difference between people who say they are happy with the number of friends they have and those who aren't could be how they see their acquaintances. For example you join groups and meet people who will talk while your there but it never goes beyond the group some will count them as friends and therefore joining of the group a success and to others it's just acquaintances and it's a fail. The exact same thing could be happening but with different perspectives for the person.

WhatNoRaisins, I might be expressing this in a clunky way, but it made me think it could be down to a balance of neediness. In a way, a vicious circle, because people who make acquaintances (let's say through joining something) because they need to have connections and energy from others to be happier, may put people off more because they are not rubbing along already in terms of their own fulfilment, stability, social impression, or whatever.

[quote ChangingLife]**@LuluBlakey1, @Coffeepot72, same boat here too except for the fact my parents are still here (but are getting older….).

That’s one reason why I really wanted to have two dcs. Nothing could tell me whether they would be close as adults. Tbf, I still don’t know that BUT at least they’ve had that opportunity. Being an only child (Esp when your parents were only children themselves) makes your family much smaller. And that means your support network much smaller.

I’d also say that true, deep friendship is rare. I think that if you have one or two very close friends (the type you can ring at any time etc…) you are doing well.
The others come and go ime depending on interest, circumstances etc… and yes drop out if things get harder.
Seeing how things always get harder as you get older, there is no wonder friendship disappear and people get more and more lonely as they get older.[/quote]
I know what you mean, DH is only child and from a different country. Covid scare with his parents and I remember thinking, poor guy nearly had his whole family wiped out. On the flip side my siblings are vile human beings to the extent that my hubby is glad to be an only child. I do blame my parents on raising them to be bullies and self entitled. One bullies her much younger husband, the other may as well be separated from his wife and the 3 rd has no relationship at all. The 3rd sibling is the black sheep none of us get along with and when my parents go he’s going to be on his own.

If I didn’t have children and was worried about old age I’d make sure that pension pot was full and plan a comfortable retirement as far as financially possible.

@JustDanceAddict we're quite well sorted financially, but its the fear of being 'the only one left' that worries me, and no amount of money can guard against everyone dying before me! So even though I have a nice group of friends now, I'm adamant I'll trying to keep maintain a decent circle, for as long as I'm able.

Some people have difficult personalities- but they are usually the result of problems in childhood. Some people get ill and isolated. Some (older) people are proud and can’t tell anyone they are struggling etc. It makes you realise how important it is to nurture friendships and family.

@Ormally

WhatNoRaisins, I might be expressing this in a clunky way, but it made me think it could be down to a balance of neediness. In a way, a vicious circle, because people who make acquaintances (let's say through joining something) because they need to have connections and energy from others to be happier, may put people off more because they are not rubbing along already in terms of their own fulfilment, stability, social impression, or whatever.

I strongly suspect the advice to join a group or volunteer is only good advice if the activities are something which really appeal and you can take or leave the making friends part. If you're in a position where you feel desperate to make friends (I've been there) then unless you quickly click with people it's not a great solution.

I wish we could stop talking about it like it's a universal fix all for loneliness. It doesn't work for everyone. We need to talk about solutions to loneliness with some nuance.