To think a lot of lonely people have brought it on themselves?

[LovelyYellowLabrador]

Just been watching a channel 4 thing on YouTube about lonely people
Most of them were like-no one calls…. They don’t see anyone all day
They maybe have had a marriage where their partner was the only other person they spent time with so when threat person has passed away they have no one else

Just think people need to think more about what they are doing
They expect their adult children to call them all the time and visit
Yet don’t stop to pause to think have I been a good parent am I draining or overly negative

Or they could think right no one’s called me, who am I going to call
How am I going to make and keep some friends

I am concerned that I may be a bit lonely if my husband passes before me. In my case it is because my place of work was 40 miles away so I left my colleagues/friends when I retired 5 years ago. My career was a life long commitment so other all friendships originated at work. I need to form some social groups before it is too late.

Until you work with the general public on a 1:1 basis you would never be able to imagine how very different people are in terms of motivation and helping themselves.

On the one hand, you have the motivated crack on with it types who realise that they have control over their lives and the direction it takes. On the other hand, you have the people with a bit of a victim mindset who wait for people to come and help them. People seem to fall on one side or the other with a few in between. It's baffling and an absolute eye opener.

@Whydoesthecatalwaysdothat

Until you work with the general public on a 1:1 basis you would never be able to imagine how very different people are in terms of motivation and helping themselves.

On the one hand, you have the motivated crack on with it types who realise that they have control over their lives and the direction it takes. On the other hand, you have the people with a bit of a victim mindset who wait for people to come and help them. People seem to fall on one side or the other with a few in between. It's baffling and an absolute eye opener.

Slightly simplistic maybe. What about all those in between?

Dont judge anyone until you have walked a mile in their shoes

@Whydoesthecatalwaysdothat

Until you work with the general public on a 1:1 basis you would never be able to imagine how very different people are in terms of motivation and helping themselves.

On the one hand, you have the motivated crack on with it types who realise that they have control over their lives and the direction it takes. On the other hand, you have the people with a bit of a victim mindset who wait for people to come and help them. People seem to fall on one side or the other with a few in between. It's baffling and an absolute eye opener.

Victim Mindset?

Not everybody does have control over their own lives. That's the whole point of abuse and coercive control.

Sadly some people don't seem to realise that relationships are a privilege not a right. We have to work at them and it has to be a two way process. But I do think people can find themselves in difficult and unexpected circumstances - for a whole range of reasons e.g..marriages end, friends die or move away, family emigrate, Lockdown puts a stop to many activities and community groups, people get Depressed and others think they are being antisocial - there can be dozens of reasons people feel isolated. So I think yes, some people would benefit from realising that they need to put a bit of effort into making and sustaining relationships, but others have put in that effort and still end up feeling very alone (because Life so often just isn't fair or kind).

Loneliness is complicated but work in healthcare and you will see the correlation in loneliness and ability of people to help themselves first hand. Unfortunately, loneliness for some people is a self fulfilling prophecy. It's very frustrating.

Doris is 85. She lost her husband Fred five years ago. Ten years ago they moved into sheltered accommodation as they anticipated that they would struggle with the maintenance and upkeep of their 3 bed semi. In sheltered housing, there is a manager Doris can call on and a 24/7 emergency helpline. Doris enjoys going to church and has recently started to attend the day centre as she struggles to get out and about on her own. Doris doesn't have children but she has a couple of friends she sees fairly regularly. She has also made some new friends at the sheltered accommodation and goes to the weekly coffee morning. As her mobility is limited she has been spending more time at home so is learning to crochet and planning to crochet Christmas baubles to help fund the local cat rescue.

Mavis is 85. She lost her husband Bob five years ago. Forty years ago, they moved into the large detached family house that was to become their 'forever home'. Mavis is struggling with the maintenance and upkeep of the house. She cannot afford to heat the whole house and, as her mobility prevents her from getting up the stairs, she now lives downstairs. Despite encouragement to move into more suitable accommodation from her family, Mavis wants to stay in the house. Mavis didn't work and dedicated her life to her husband and two children. Her children live nearby but both work and have families. They see Mavis on a regular basis, take her out and help her as much as they can physically manage. Despite this, Mavis says that she sees them rarely. The GP referred Mavis to the Social Prescriber as she frequently complained that she was lonely when attending appointments for her various ailments. Mavis attended one coffee morning organised by the Social Prescriber. She didn't want to attend the following week and proclaimed that the Social Prescriber was useless. Mavis spends a lot of time at home but has no hobbies other than watching TV and listening to the radio.

This is very simplistic but there are lots of people like Doris and Mavis out there. In terms of loneliness in old age, I cannot stress how important it is to plan ahead for your life. What will you do if an when your husband dies? Where will you live? How will get around if you can no longer drive? What will you do if your mobility declines? How are you going to entertain yourself on the days you can't get out and about?

@Whydoesthecatalwaysdothat

Until you work with the general public on a 1:1 basis you would never be able to imagine how very different people are in terms of motivation and helping themselves.

On the one hand, you have the motivated crack on with it types who realise that they have control over their lives and the direction it takes. On the other hand, you have the people with a bit of a victim mindset who wait for people to come and help them. People seem to fall on one side or the other with a few in between. It's baffling and an absolute eye opener.

@Whydoesthecatalwaysdothat if you read my post further up at 18.45 where do you think I fit - motivated crack on or victim mindset? If victim what do you think I could be doing?

I’m surprised how many people posting assume that widowhood only happens in older age. Unfortunately I’m part of a group that nobody wants to be part of when my husband died suddenly at an early age.
Prior to this I had many friends & most of them disappeared afterwards.
To say that loneliness is brought on due to lack of effort, old age or mental health issues is very simplistic & ignorant.

@Whydoesthecatalwaysdothat

Loneliness is complicated but work in healthcare and you will see the correlation in loneliness and ability of people to help themselves first hand. Unfortunately, loneliness for some people is a self fulfilling prophecy. It's very frustrating.

Doris is 85. She lost her husband Fred five years ago. Ten years ago they moved into sheltered accommodation as they anticipated that they would struggle with the maintenance and upkeep of their 3 bed semi. In sheltered housing, there is a manager Doris can call on and a 24/7 emergency helpline. Doris enjoys going to church and has recently started to attend the day centre as she struggles to get out and about on her own. Doris doesn't have children but she has a couple of friends she sees fairly regularly. She has also made some new friends at the sheltered accommodation and goes to the weekly coffee morning. As her mobility is limited she has been spending more time at home so is learning to crochet and planning to crochet Christmas baubles to help fund the local cat rescue.

Mavis is 85. She lost her husband Bob five years ago. Forty years ago, they moved into the large detached family house that was to become their 'forever home'. Mavis is struggling with the maintenance and upkeep of the house. She cannot afford to heat the whole house and, as her mobility prevents her from getting up the stairs, she now lives downstairs. Despite encouragement to move into more suitable accommodation from her family, Mavis wants to stay in the house. Mavis didn't work and dedicated her life to her husband and two children. Her children live nearby but both work and have families. They see Mavis on a regular basis, take her out and help her as much as they can physically manage. Despite this, Mavis says that she sees them rarely. The GP referred Mavis to the Social Prescriber as she frequently complained that she was lonely when attending appointments for her various ailments. Mavis attended one coffee morning organised by the Social Prescriber. She didn't want to attend the following week and proclaimed that the Social Prescriber was useless. Mavis spends a lot of time at home but has no hobbies other than watching TV and listening to the radio.

This is very simplistic but there are lots of people like Doris and Mavis out there. In terms of loneliness in old age, I cannot stress how important it is to plan ahead for your life. What will you do if an when your husband dies? Where will you live? How will get around if you can no longer drive? What will you do if your mobility declines? How are you going to entertain yourself on the days you can't get out and about?

I do agree with this. Most of us are not brought up to think ahead and plan our old age.

I don’t think it’s black or white either.
I feel lonely.
I’m 50
I work long hours Monday to Friday and feel knackered by Friday so the prospect of going out to “socialise” is not in the least appealing.
I have returned to my home town because my parents are elderly, so the weekend revolves around house cleaning, laundry and visiting parents along with Sunday afternoon prepping for the following week at work.
I have wondered about going out to socialise and have recently come to the conclusion that in fact, I have no one that I could/would call on to go out with. And that’s when it hit me….and made me feel even more lonely…. Up to then, my busyness masked it.
I did have quite a few friends when I was younger, but when we all started having children, I felt that I couldn’t inconvenience people, so didn’t ask or arrange social evenings.
This will be a problem for me going forward, but I can’t see it changing for the foreseeable because of my work and caring commitment.
At the moment I don’t blame anyone, I don’t expect people to visit. I don’t tell anyone how I really feel (apart from you lot!!) But if I was 30 years older and still in this position, I may well be a grumpy, maudlin old lady if my DC didn’t visit 🤔

@cfb35

I don’t think it’s black or white either. I feel lonely. I’m 50 I work long hours Monday to Friday and feel knackered by Friday so the prospect of going out to “socialise” is not in the least appealing. I have returned to my home town because my parents are elderly, so the weekend revolves around house cleaning, laundry and visiting parents along with Sunday afternoon prepping for the following week at work. I have wondered about going out to socialise and have recently come to the conclusion that in fact, I have no one that I could/would call on to go out with. And that’s when it hit me….and made me feel even more lonely…. Up to then, my busyness masked it. I did have quite a few friends when I was younger, but when we all started having children, I felt that I couldn’t inconvenience people, so didn’t ask or arrange social evenings. This will be a problem for me going forward, but I can’t see it changing for the foreseeable because of my work and caring commitment. At the moment I don’t blame anyone, I don’t expect people to visit. I don’t tell anyone how I really feel (apart from you lot!!) But if I was 30 years older and still in this position, I may well be a grumpy, maudlin old lady if my DC didn’t visit 🤔

Pretty much everything we do in life is a choice.

You choose to work long hours in a full time job.
You choose not to socialise.
You've chosen to move back to your home town.
You choose to spend your weekend cleaning, doing laundry and visiting your parents.
You've chosen not to meet up with friends for fear of inconveniencing them.

It all sounds rather duty bound. There is nothing wrong in solely working and taking care of your parents if that is what makes you happy but it really doesn't sound as if it does. Most people need some sort of balance.

The people who lead balanced lives with a mixture of work, family, hobbies and exercise generally tend to continue that pattern into old age. The people who just work and care for others often find that they have a gaping hole in their life they are unable to fill because they have forgotten how to engage or do anything else with their lives. Even when they meet people they have nothing to talk about because they do nothing of real interest. Conversations about Sue in Finance missed an accounting deadline or your Dad's bunion operation being postponed for the third time aren't great conversation starters.

If you have beautiful expensive china, use it everyday to appreciate it and get the benefit of it. Similarly, live your life and enjoy it now. Illness and disease can strike at any moment. Don't wait until you are old to live your life. That day may never come.

@Whydoesthecatalwaysdothat

Loneliness is complicated but work in healthcare and you will see the correlation in loneliness and ability of people to help themselves first hand. Unfortunately, loneliness for some people is a self fulfilling prophecy. It's very frustrating.

Doris is 85. She lost her husband Fred five years ago. Ten years ago they moved into sheltered accommodation as they anticipated that they would struggle with the maintenance and upkeep of their 3 bed semi. In sheltered housing, there is a manager Doris can call on and a 24/7 emergency helpline. Doris enjoys going to church and has recently started to attend the day centre as she struggles to get out and about on her own. Doris doesn't have children but she has a couple of friends she sees fairly regularly. She has also made some new friends at the sheltered accommodation and goes to the weekly coffee morning. As her mobility is limited she has been spending more time at home so is learning to crochet and planning to crochet Christmas baubles to help fund the local cat rescue.

Mavis is 85. She lost her husband Bob five years ago. Forty years ago, they moved into the large detached family house that was to become their 'forever home'. Mavis is struggling with the maintenance and upkeep of the house. She cannot afford to heat the whole house and, as her mobility prevents her from getting up the stairs, she now lives downstairs. Despite encouragement to move into more suitable accommodation from her family, Mavis wants to stay in the house. Mavis didn't work and dedicated her life to her husband and two children. Her children live nearby but both work and have families. They see Mavis on a regular basis, take her out and help her as much as they can physically manage. Despite this, Mavis says that she sees them rarely. The GP referred Mavis to the Social Prescriber as she frequently complained that she was lonely when attending appointments for her various ailments. Mavis attended one coffee morning organised by the Social Prescriber. She didn't want to attend the following week and proclaimed that the Social Prescriber was useless. Mavis spends a lot of time at home but has no hobbies other than watching TV and listening to the radio.

This is very simplistic but there are lots of people like Doris and Mavis out there. In terms of loneliness in old age, I cannot stress how important it is to plan ahead for your life. What will you do if an when your husband dies? Where will you live? How will get around if you can no longer drive? What will you do if your mobility declines? How are you going to entertain yourself on the days you can't get out and about?

I worked in housing, I’m very aware of how appropriate accommodation for older people can have a positive effect on their lives. It reduces isolation and loneliness, the necessity for full on, expensive care, and the likelihood of bed blocking in hospital. It also removes the worry of expensive maintenance.

A big problem is availability. Always been a renter? Unlikely to be a problem getting into affordable, rented housing. Owner occupier? Great if you can afford McCarthy and Stone or similar! Not great if the house you own is in a cheap area and won’t fetch enough to buy a retirement flat.

Thinking about two very lonely friends I have. Both are divorced. One hasn’t worked in years and lives off benefits . She can’t find the motivation to get a job, spends days alone and focuses on how her children let her down/don’t visit enough and treat her badly. She has no hobbies and rarely socialises. She is 50.
The other is similar. She gave up her job due to fears about Covid, and spends her days caring for an elderly mother . She also focuses on her children not treating her well/not visiting enough. She hasn’t got any hobbies or interests, just watches TV. No wonder neither of their families find them good company.
I am also very lonely. Have spent my entire life moving round the country. Friendships have been hard to maintain due to this . I tend to make one or two good friends and then move. Recently moved back to my home town due to elderly mother . I feel adrift as I no longer work and the pandemic has meant the hobbies I was developing have been cancelled. My entire life revolves around my husband who had retired . Two of my children live at the other end of the country.
I’m trying to make new friends and do lots of things, but most people I meet do not want friends. They are caught up in their own lives. I find one hobby is dominated by older people who though lovely, are preoccupied with health issues and the death of friends and family. It is ageing me.

Loneliness is a complex issue with many causes. We live in a society which does not support others and increasing lacks empathy or tolerance.

Many elderly people struggle with the modern world. Technology, phones and call centres have replaced social interaction and are difficult for them to understand. Hearing and sight issues and increasing infirmity all add to the sense of isolation.

Well, there's a new low.

Yes, I think people who are negative and unfairly judge others when they know little about a person’s circumstances, very often do end up lonely.

Maybe that's another missing part of the discussion on loneliness, the risk factors.

If people only spend time with their partner and he or she passes on that would leave a really big hole in life that needs to be filled. So the key is to have some separate interests and friends. You have to do a bit of work to get other people to spend time with you not just expect them to appear. When I worked in a care home this was often the case, no hobbies, no interest in anything outside their marriage - then one passes. It's sad but almost inevitable with some people. Regrettably marriage does make a lot of people boring to be with as they are so focused on each other. Am thinking of a certain friend now who I would certainly distance myself from if anything happened, she would be a nightmare.

I agree @DaisyChains3 that many groups are skewed towards the elderly, unless it’s something sporty (which many of us aren’t!). I know older people who are cheerful and good company (the man across the road was super company and I’d go round for a chin-wag often) but so many do focus on ailments and going to the doctor/hospital appointments.

I guess we all have life stages which interest us and seek company which shares that interest, be it pre-school, school, exams, work, and then cruises and grandchildren bragging etc etc.

When you’re younger you acquire friends who really you have nothing in common with or who have a whole host of faults, and who you’d spurn if you met them later in life. Perhaps those of us with few friends are fussy buggers?!

A big problem is availability. Always been a renter? Unlikely to be a problem getting into affordable, rented housing. Owner occupier? Great if you can afford McCarthy and Stone or similar! Not great if the house you own is in a cheap area and won’t fetch enough to buy a retirement flat.

I have in-laws in this exact situation. Aunt and uncle in law, rented a top floor flat with stairs all their lives. Uncle was a tradesman, made decent money, auntie worked part time in a supermarket once the kids had left school (just for something to do). They spent every penny they earned as soon as they earned it. Holidays twice a year, decent car, always eating out, they bought the best of everything. They hit their late 60s and due to various ailments couldn’t manage their stairs. They were on a waiting list for less than two months and got sheltered accommodation due to their high priority. If they had bought the flat they lived in for 50 years, (and they could have) it would be worth over half a million by the time they sold it.

MIL and FIL both worked full time. They got on the housing ladder early had to buy a larger property because her parents needed to move in with them. (Uncle refused to have them stay) They spent their life being careful with money, raising their kids and caring for her parents whilst they worked full time to be able to afford the house for them to live in. They really need to go to sheltered accommodation now, but the list is long and they are at the bottom. They are looking at selling their property and buying a private retirement place in their area, but the T&Cs are really bad. The monthly payment is high and even though they will be “buying” a flat, once they pass on, the ownership reverts back to the company they bought from. We’ve advised them against it. So for now, we do what we can to support them in their own place. MIL has said more than once “I should have thrown all my money away like my brother did and we’d have a place by now.”

I have no idea how typical this situation is, but it is really unfair.

Daisy and anyone else who feels lonely, would you consider joining the WI?

I have been a member for many years, I also have moved around the country a lot and always join my local WI so I have a 'Ready made' group of like minded women - I might not immediately make a 'best friend' but I am out and about, meeting people, hearing speakers, learning something .. most WIs have walking groups, Book clubs etc as well.

But the WI is struggling in some areas due to lack of new members, I would love to hear, on this anonymous forum, what the issues are, why more women don't want want to join ... please be honest.

There are also now 'virtual' WI groups if you really can't get out due to caring responsibilities or other reasons.

NO older people have NOT brought in on them selves.
Its up to family to keep in touch with older members, its simply the pecking order, the more you visit the more they will open up and stop being lonely, older people are the same as young people in older aching creaking bodys.
Ive recently read a post on here about someone in their 40s feeling invisable, how do you think those much older feel.
I think its very sad no one has time for elders any more.
We used to HAVE to visit elders every weekend, i hated it but as i got older learnt to love it, they have so much wisdom, knowledge, humour.
Only in the West do we do this, other countries respect/care/look after their elders.

People don't always have the option of living near their extended family.

@BoredZelda, there are a lot of older people in similar situations, and as we are an ageing population, more suitable and affordable properties are needed. It might be worth contacting a local branch of Age UK as they can often have helpful information and links to different housing providers.

No one deserves to be unhappy or lonely. I find that people, like OP who are so unyielding in their views tend to be those who haven't experienced hardship. I find difficult times teach you empathy OP. Fate will turn on you eventually so maybe you'll be kinder once you've been on the receiving end.