How many of you have had an encounter like this with a man??

[RozHuntleysLeftHand]

Video in twitter thread linked.
It's a man being fucking EXTREMELY creepy to a 17 yr old girl who's just trying to shop in a thrift store.

I'm betting it's most of us, right?
My first one was when I was 10- FUCKING TEN!
Creepy ice cream man asking all sorts of inappropriate questions, leering at me and asking if I was alone and where my parents were.
Then basically just continued.

I can't even count the amount of interactions like this I had when I was younger.

This is so, so relatable it's painful.

It actually made me feel sick watching, all the fear, panic and not knowing how to get out of it, the fear that if you simply tell them to fuck off or something that they will get aggressive or worse, stalk you when you get out.

Serious serial killer vibes as well trying to get her to come work on his fucking remote property, someone get the sniffer dogs out there.

For fuck sake.

Video here

AIBU to think this is just normal life for so many girls and women?
And AIBU to think why the fuck can't we get this fucking sorted in 2022??

NAMALT is a literal straw man, isn’t it?

Argh not a literal one 🙄

Also- women have been so conditioned that we feel we have to say
that we are not young/ gorgeous/slim - as if we will be thought of as big headed if we 'boast' about this harassment !

You are absolutely right @crochetmonkey74.
And it also demonstrates how male-on-female harrassment/sexual abuse is not about sex.
It's about misogyny, control, & power.

So why are all these men who are not like that not speaking out. They see is happening they are aware yet far more often they keep quiet and turn away

@ChargingBuck

*Also- women have been so conditioned that we feel we have to say that we are not young/ gorgeous/slim - as if we will be thought of as big headed if we 'boast' about this harassment !*

You are absolutely right @crochetmonkey74.
And it also demonstrates how male-on-female harrassment/sexual abuse is not about sex.
It's about misogyny, control, & power.

This is why young men break in to the homes of elderly women and rape them. Its not about sexual attraction, its about power and humiliation. Its about knowing that you don't need to kill that person to totally destroy them.

@AngelinaFibres

It's the fact that women have to think about things that would never enter the head of a man.If I am on a train on my own I don't sit on an inside seat. It traps you with the man who pretends to be asleep and rubs his foot up and down your ankle. You don't take the quickest way back to your car because it's the dark, quiet bit where someone could hide. You don't park in the multi storey when you go to a concert alone, even though that's the closest parking, because it looks a bit grotty and when you get back it may not be lit. You wait for a lift in your hotel. When it arrives there is a man/men in it. You wait for the next one. A group of young men are approaching you so you walk right on the outside of the pavement/in the road rather than risk being hemmed in by the fence on the other side. I am not paranoid, I don't expect to be attacked everytime I go out but , subconsciously I adapt where I am and what I am doing to keep myself away from situations I don't want to be in. I do it automatically after years of stuff happening. My husband would never even think of adapting any part of his plan for the day.

In all honesty I’d never think of having to adapt in that way either. Not sitting where I want on a train incase some fella rubs his feet on me? That would get a swift kick in the gonads and likely a mouthful that would make a sailor proud. Probably end up on sodding Facebook or the like again. Not getting in a lift if there’s a man in it? Or walking to my car in the dark? Nope. Not me either.

@MrsTerryPratchett 'I've taught her that her body belongs to her, no one gets to touch her without permission and she doesn't have to be polite if they do'

That’s wonderful and I’m slightly jealous of your DD 😃 In south africa I was au pair for a while and in kindergarten they are taught a song ‘This is my body’ in Afrikaans and English. I learned it then, I was 15, that’s when I started to realise the stuff that took place in foster care wasn’t right. But it was too late, it happened again that same year with an adult friend (late 30s) of my cousin (I was her au pair) and my cousin knew what he was like but let me go out with him, I was soooo lonely and vulnerable and he got me drunk and had sex with me which I agreed to cause I was starved for attention but he pretended to use a condom and didn’t, come to find out after that he did this regularly with teenagers and my cousin knew. Then I had to act like everything was normal with his pregnant wife at brunch even though I was terrified I had aids or pregnancy. He secretly gave me money for pregnancy test which was negative thankfully. For years I was convinced I had hiv but only had a test in my 20s 🙄

@Mommabear20

Never had an experience like this!

While it's bad that it happens, it's awful that all men are tagged in the same way! Not all men are like this!

As per Mrs Pratchett's point - google Schrodinger's Rapist.

Just because it's never happened to you, do you imagine that telling people NAMALT makes it better for the vast majority of women who is has happened to? I've never been mugged, or carjacked. That doesn't make me run around crying "not all humans are muggers & carjackers!" ffs.

Unless you can point out to me exactly which men belong to your NAMALT camp, @Mommabear20, I'll reserve the right to view them all with extreme distrust until proven otherwise.

If you want me to change my mind about that, how about you get all these wonderful NAMALT men you know doing the decent thing & calling out harassment when they see it right in front of their noses? Calling out "locker room talk" & "banter" for the bullshit it is, & educate the misogynists in how they are contributing to the continuum that makes up today's rape culture.

Most men turn a blind eye.
Or don't care enough to notice.

The change needs to start with men. Women have been trying to change this dynamic since the dawn of time.

Yeah I had to put up with men's pervy shit from around age 5 and the last time it happened was a month ago. I am 60 years old.
I wish it was legal to carry a baseball bat with nails in.

The video is creepy because it’s a child of 17 being harassed by an adult man. He must know he’s far too old to be hitting on her and yet he persists in being inappropriate. Then he tries to persuade her to accompany him to a garage on his isolated property. This is way more than just the normal sort of unwanted male attention from someone who fancies you, it’s borderline paedophilia and serial killer vibes.

While it's bad that it happens, it's awful that all men are tagged in the same way! Not all men are like this!

Yes let's concentrate on how this makes men look bad rather than how it makes women feel. NAMALT is shorthand for women STFU, I refuse.

As for the posters who think she handled it well, she did, I've no doubt she's had plenty of practice. But why should she have to deal with it at all?

It made me feel sick watching it knowing she's mentally calculating how much attention will prevent him getting aggressive without giving enough for him to take it as encouragement. She just wanted to shop in peace, it's not an extravagant ask.

I doubt he's so thick skinned he can't tell she wants to be left alone but he's determined to get the attention he wants or as others have said he enjoys her discomfort. I would think many of us have encountered men who have taken great pleasure in frightening or intimidating us whilst maintaining plausible deniability, "I was just being friendly". I had a man grab my hand in a petrol station once whilst giving me change, he was staring straight at me with the creepiest smile ever, he knew exactly what he was doing.

@AutomaticMoon

You are not alone.
You deserved none of that shit.
I am sorry for what you endured, & proxy-proud of your survival xx

The other thing that really bothers me, in the UK pepper spray is illegal for non police! That’s ridiculous. And how come electric scooters and such have a ridiculous limit so they can’t go faster than 8mph? In other countries it’s 15mph which makes them more practical. Why are women not allowed to carry pepper spray for safety? Since the police don’t seem to do anything about these aggressively solicitous men, women should be allowed a self defence weapon.

There was a study done at a university in Canada. Male students were asked what they were most concerned about from female students. Their greatest fear was being laughed at by the women. Female students greatest fear from male students was that they would rape , attack or murder them.

When I was 17 I was on the bus home from my hairdressing job. It was around 7pm and the bus was completely empty. At one bus stop a middle aged man got on and sat next to me. He didn't speak but made sure that his leg was touching my leg. I moved my leg away but he kept moving near to me.
I was scared rigid and just sat there terrified but didn't do or say anything (it was the 80's, generally I don't think young women were as clued up and savvy as they are now).
I remember getting off the bus, running down our street and bursting into tears when my Dad came to the door.

I also remember, when I was in high school. I was walking home from a rounders match in my gym kit. I was not far from home when a man who was stood by a car asked me to reach inside of his car and get something for him (I can't remember what it was) as he couldn't bend due to a bad back or something. I can't remember now what I said to him (I didn't bend to get the item) but I'm pretty sure he just wanted me to bend so that he could look up my skirt.

When I was in my late 30's a man in a car beeped his horn at me when I was on my way to pick up my Son from school. I ignored it and carried on to school. A few minutes later the same man pulled up beside me on a quiet road and started pestering me (asking was I married, did I have a boyfriend etc). I was really unnerved as there was no one else around.

I am just one woman and it's taken me all of two minutes to think of 3 incidences of being harrassed by strange men as I was coming home from school/on public transport/going to pick up my Son from school.
How sad it is that from such a young age a woman has to constantly be on her guard when out in public. That we can't walk through a park without wondering if that man walking behind us is going to pounce. Can't walk alone at night without wondering if we will be attacked. Can't put our drink down without worrying that something sinister will be slipped into it. And now it seems we have to worry that when out at pubs and clubs, at any given moment we could have a needle jabbed into our arm and be knocked senseless.

I'm 51 years old now, a bit overweight and maybe even slightly frumpy. Strange men leave me alone these days, but how sad that I had to become old and fat in order for that to happen :-(

@ChargingBuck Awww thank you most kindly, you’re very lovely and sweet to say this. I’m glad we’ve survived the madness xox

Am concerned with how there’s a push in academia with pedophiles and their supporters writing disturbing thing for medical journals. Where is the compassion for survivors? Honestly, I think pedophiles get given indefinite therapy treatment for free but survivors are lucky to get 10 sessions from the nhs. I agree there should be prevention but why all this validation and public fawning over so called ‘virtuous pedophiles’? How can you be a virtuous rapist, if you don’t rape?

It’s like the world is making less and less sense 😭

have you got a link thats not twitter, i refuse to give that misogynist hole clicks.

Yeah it's sick, but I feel sick that I can only tell now that I'm in my 30s! I used to get this all the time as between 15-20, and I'm certain they're guys who've done those pick-up courses. There's something about how they're meant to have something weird to say that the girl couldn't respond yes or no to (like the "can you guess which knee is the bad one" in the video). It's supposedly meant to 'disarm' the girl with confusion and curiosity, but when it inevitably doesn't work, most of these guys get really passive aggressive at least.

THIS guy looks like he's going straight from "look at my knee" to "get in my van". Terrifying

Agree and I would not describe it as “terrifying”

@Why2why

I think you have misunderstood.
It's not the sole encounter that is of itself terrifying. After all, the young woman was in a shop, with assistants & probably members of the public in shouting range.
It's the frequency with which it happens, the appalling instances when it works (for the man), & the blithe acceptance that it's something women just have to navigate, at their own peril & at the cost of their own mental wellbeing that is terrifying.

Just because the young woman in the video (whether staged or not, that's irrelevant at this point in the thread, before any rape apologist jumps on my case) handled the situation, doesn't make it less terrifying.
It's a terrifying state of affairs. We don't get to see the real life videos of women being taken off the streets, or, as happens with exponentially more frequency, harassed & abused by men in their own homes.

Age 11 last school trip of primary. Went to Hastings, visited a church. We all had to pick an object and draw it. Random man drew an old style door key and gave it to me with his number on!! Teacher saw and took the paper. When we got back to school some adult (can’t remember who) said the man had been arrested for trying to abduct a child

@AutomaticMoon

Argh not a literal one 🙄

yeah, it is actually Moon.

NAMALT is literally a perfect illustration of the Straw Man argument.

10 points to Gryffindor!

@AutomaticMoon

The other thing that really bothers me, in the UK pepper spray is illegal for non police! That’s ridiculous. And how come electric scooters and such have a ridiculous limit so they can’t go faster than 8mph? In other countries it’s 15mph which makes them more practical. Why are women not allowed to carry pepper spray for safety? Since the police don’t seem to do anything about these aggressively solicitous men, women should be allowed a self defence weapon.

You don’t need pepper spray. Christ I’ve lobbed ashtrays at the heads of wannabe gangstas for punching the puggy when I’ve had a shift down the clubby. You could try self defence classes. Might help with your confidence too. Women can be just as bad as the men too in some situations. Anyone who’s ever worn a kilt will tell you it can’t be done without women checking if you’re a “real Scotsman” (it’s a thing, Google it) but men tend to handle it differently to women

@HighlandPony**
I don't want to have to retaliate physically to a man's creepy behaviour.
I don't want to find myself in a carriage full of strangers, who have not seen a man being discretely creepy, but have just seen me assault him in what he will claim is a totally unprovoked attack.
I don't want to be arrested at the next station when I just want to get home.
I don't want to be sexually assaulted in a lift . I want to get on with my day.
Good for you if you choose to see yourself as a ballsy woman. I married a man who professed to love me but beat the living daylights out of me because I stood my ground. I choose not to put myself in that position with any man ever again. The weediest of men can do the average woman serious harm without a great deal of effort, particularly when that man feels humiliated. Standing up to a random stranger may cause them to crumble and crawl away. It may also cause you serious harm. In that moment you have absolutely no idea which man you are faced with or how it will pan out.

Why are women not allowed to carry pepper spray for safety?

Moon my dear, because carrying weapons isn't a great idea.
Unless you are Uma Thurman in Kill Bill, some fucker is gonna just take it off you & use it against you, enraged by your temerity in wanting to defend yourself.

Imagine living in a place where pepper spray is legal. Same some fucker is gonna spray you in the eyes, then do exactly what he wants.

Not being contradictory for the sake of it - I feel your pain & am privately cheering the PP who wanted a nailed mace ...

@ChargingBuck - exactly. Weapons are likely to be used against you. Martial arts and self defence - yep, they may help in some situations but lets face it, on average men are bigger and stronger than women and the chance you will fight them off is pretty slim.

As for NAMALT. Statistically speaking, if this experience is so common, either a small number of men are full time pervy creeps or a lot of men we think are NAMALTs are actually like that, we just have not directly experienced it.