How many of you have had an encounter like this with a man??

[RozHuntleysLeftHand]

Video in twitter thread linked.
It's a man being fucking EXTREMELY creepy to a 17 yr old girl who's just trying to shop in a thrift store.

I'm betting it's most of us, right?
My first one was when I was 10- FUCKING TEN!
Creepy ice cream man asking all sorts of inappropriate questions, leering at me and asking if I was alone and where my parents were.
Then basically just continued.

I can't even count the amount of interactions like this I had when I was younger.

This is so, so relatable it's painful.

It actually made me feel sick watching, all the fear, panic and not knowing how to get out of it, the fear that if you simply tell them to fuck off or something that they will get aggressive or worse, stalk you when you get out.

Serious serial killer vibes as well trying to get her to come work on his fucking remote property, someone get the sniffer dogs out there.

For fuck sake.

Video here

AIBU to think this is just normal life for so many girls and women?
And AIBU to think why the fuck can't we get this fucking sorted in 2022??

Dunno about NAMALT

I'd say AMALT instead

Well too many are. What's depressing is how many men are either not bothered about it or don't believe and don't assist.

I've been helped twice by a man when I was getting harassed. In almost 40 years. One of the helpful men was a stranger who I'm still friends with! Because he stepped in and gave me a safe harbour.

These men do it in public. Why don't more men offer a hand? Offer to call police, or just stand near and make sure nothing happens, or ask if you're OK. They don't need to be in harms way. They don't have to punch the bloke. Just offer a watchful eye.

@MrsTerryPratchett, I was gonna reply to the martial arts post too, but you have covered it with your usual eloquence.

Maybe the PP already knows all this, & I certainly do not mean to patronise ... but the average woman - even many black belts - is no match for the ill-intentioned male.
Especially when he's close enough to grapple.

I absolutely second everything you wrote & your instructor taught.
The best lesson I took away from martial arts training was - particularly for women - "get in fast, go in hard, don't stop til he's down, & do your bloody circuit training.
Because what is going to save you isn't your fighting skills - that will be your stamina, determination, & functional footwear."

When I was younger, people would suggest young women should take self-defense classes.

But now I'm older, I realise self-defense starts with words and body language. I strongly believe all women should be equipped with the verbal skills to push back against creepy men, and the confidence to use these skills. It should
be taught at school, ideally.
And everyone should also be taught how to spot a creep harassing someone, and how to come to their defense. "Interfering" in these situations should be normalised. A bit like you can teach people how to intervene if they witness racist abuse. Lone women shouldn't have to face that crap alone.

@waterlego

She quite clearly tried to shut down his attempts at conversation. My feeling is that he saw and understood those boundaries but felt entitled to try to erode them. The arrogance and entitlement of it is absolutely staggering.

Yep. It was creepy, slimy entitled behaviour. Made me furious to watch it.

@lljkk

I didn't find it outrageous situation. She easily handled it. He's really sad & lacks social skills.

He wants you to think he's sad and lacks social skills. This is how he reels women and girls in. Does he pretend he's injured in some way? Tick bites? I couldn't hear very well. Anyway, this was Ted Bundy's way of reeling in potential victims.

Still feel sorry for him?

@HomeHomeInTheRange

I have had numerous unwanted creepy persistent approaches like this, from aged about 20 onwards.

A BIG problem early on was that I had never been taught to be assertive with adults, and more importantly, thought I must always be polite and obliging to adults. Men take advantage of this.

Let's teach our daughters, and sons, that if someone makes you feel uncomfortable IT IS OK TO SAY SO.

Let's help them practice what to say:

"I am not comfortable talking with you and am stopping the conversation" (and walk to the till!)

"I do not wish to look at your leg, please do not ask me again"

"I am not prepared to talk to you about any of my personal details, and I would like to end this conversation, goodbye"

"This is not a conversation I wish to continue, good afternoon!"

We are so bad (due to socialisation) at communicating confidently and directly, and most people (we see it daily on MN) go straight from uncomfortable 'people pleasing' to "Fuck Off!"

Men creep all over women / young women, because the KNOW they will be too nervous to say very loudly "Could you leave me alone now please?"

I am not victim blaming, but emphasising how hard it is for women to tackle these men. Bit of practice....

And how will this communication serve when the men get aggressive? Honestly, self defence needs to be taught to girls of high-school age. Self defensive objects should be able to be carried by women. If these men want something they will just take it, they don't care about what you have to say.

So much that @ChargingBuck

My kickboxing instructor used to say, "incapacitate them and run". We learned all the fancy spinning back kicks but the useful stuff was the basic 'heel of the hand driven up into the nose' 'stamp as hard as you can on the top of the foot'. Anyone can learn that.

What gets you points at competition isn't what gets you out of trouble.

And my DH is a black belt who trains with an 18 yo female black belt weighing about 7 stone. Any decently strong man could take her if he was prepared and determined. She's incredible but she's still tiny.

@lljkk

I didn't find it outrageous situation. She easily handled it. He's really sad & lacks social skills.

ffs. Is there any behaviour you won't excuse?

She shouldn't have to handle it, and she isn't there for him to practice his "social skills".

Women are not support humans for men

@PlumKetchup

That's exactly what popped into my head too, Ted Bundy.

I cannot count the number of times I have been harassed by creeps from age 11. I have been sexually assaulted a number of times and raped once when I was 13 years old.

It isn't getting any better.

And how will this communication serve when the men get aggressive?
Honestly, self defence needs to be taught to girls of high-school age. Self defensive objects should be able to be carried by women.
If these men want something they will just take it, they don't care about what you have to say

Yes, there are men who will get aggressive.

But mostly this sort of encounter takes place under the very guise of 'social interaction' - so in plain sight. We can go to the till or stand by an assistant. On a packed train say 'take your hand off my body now". Go into a shop and say at the till "I do not wish to talk with you", go downstairs on the bus, etc etc.

I have been subject to attempted assault when out and about, alone on the street and it is wholly more scary and WAG do need to have the confidence and know how to effectively push, kick, scrape, etc alongside official self defence moves.

But most people wouldn't go straight for a kick to the balls when approached by a conversationalist creep in a charity shop.

This is staged though, surely?
I agree there’s so many creeps. When I was her age, I was in a pub once and a man pulled down my boob tube, exposing my breasts to the entire pub! He certainly got his comeuppance when I slapped him in the face though but seriously, what a dick!

It does not stop when you get older.

In our 40s, me and my pals are often approached by similar men when we are out just enjoying a drink together. The same thing ALWAYS happens.

I give serious fuck off vibes, I even tell them to go away. My pals tell me off for being rude, and say, oh, he is just being friendly,i have told him I am married.

Maybe 15 mins later they might say to me, now he won't go away and he's asking for my number....

Learn to be rude, ladies!!!

..... If duck off doesn't work, I start talking very loudly and enthusiastically about Jesus.

@rabbitwoman couldn't agree more.

Got felt up on a crowded bus, I grabbed his hand and lifted it up over my head and shouted "does this belong to anyone, coz I've just found it on my arse"

He got off the next stop.

But as it happened more and more I found myself letting it go, avoiding situations etc and I wish I hadn't done that. I wish I'd been that brave teen on the bus always.

@EishetChayil

Yep.

This is why my daughter will be training in martial arts as soon as she's old enough.

It doesn’t solve the problems - the problem is men should be treating this sort of behaviour from within inside of branding it - locker talk or banter.

I was flashed at at 11 years old, a man on the bus put his hand up my skirt at 12 - my parents solution was don’t go out and live in fear - that’s what we do - we live in fear. Victim blaming is alive and well. No matters how much marital arts you have - what happens when he has a knife or slips something in your drink. It’s depressing and I don’t know the answer.

Boys are conditioned from a young age.

My daughter aged 15 picks her brother 7 up from primary school recently she was cat called by a 10 year old from year 5 and 6 calling her a sexy fox and that she was hot. Her response - I’m here for my brother. Not to be shouted out by you. - his response I am being nice to you - he just didn’t see anything wrong with that and he is 10.

@lljkk

I didn't find it outrageous situation. She easily handled it. He's really sad & lacks social skills.

Seriously? I wonder why you can't read that situation & see all the red flags in it, all the abnormalities in his approach?

Ask yourself: if he wants someone to work for him, why does he first tell her she's the most beautiful yadda yada yadda? Why does he ask her if she has a guy? What the hell's that got to do with employment?

Why is he wandering the shops looking for someone to employ?

If he wants someone to move stuff around, why doesn't he approach a man, who will be stronger & taller?

If he's ineptly looking for a girlfriend, why does he suggest she comes & works for him?

You didn't find that odd at all?

As for the bit with his knees... WTF?

I have had this sort of thing happen. More so when I was a youngster, especially in my teens and early twenties.

It has also happened to all three of my Dad's, and seems to have been disturbingly regular with DD3, who is 19 and in her second year at university. She isn't the most confident of people and on two occasions the police have had to be called for her, once by me when she was 15 and was being kerb crawled on her morning paper round! The second time it was university staff who called them after an incident of harassment.

I don't know many women who have not encountered this sort of shit, even if it is being wolf whistled at from a building site. It is still intimidation, and the overwhelming majority of it is from men. Few of them would ever try it on another man.

Disgraceful in 2022.

Dad's = DDs of course. Ridiculous autocorrect. I never had 3 Dad's. I do have 3 DDs.

Men also experience unwanted sexual attention/behaviour, albeit at a lesser rate than women - this study puts it at 1 in 3 women in the past 12 months, compared to about 1 in 8 men. Though, among student age groups, males report experiencing much higher levels of unwanted female attention.

www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/young-men-oftentimes-have-deal-unwanted-sexual-advances-women-180950278/
www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/85-002-x/2019001/article/00017-eng.htm
Besides the frequency of sexual harassment, I guess the biggest difference is how intimidating it is to be harassed or receive unwanted attention by a physically stronger person. An annoying/inappropriate man is often very threatening for a woman, while an annoying/inappropriate woman is usually just annoying and inappropriate. I think some horrible men are aware of this and use it to their advantage, though I think there are some men who are unaware of how threatening an advance can be - it should be covered in schools really.

I work in health care. I am sick of how many woman come in and disclose a history of abuse. Not sick of them, to be clear, but sick of how many it has happened to and that whenever we try to hold to account the systems that produce this kind of shit, we are told NAMALT, or that false rape claims are so terrible for men that it is ok to put all rape victims off reporting, or the police and CPS DO take crimes against women seriously, or that women shouldnt go out at night. I am JUST OVER IT. I will continue to work with my lovely clients, but I am so furious about this all the time. Because we are in a really misogynistic age and FA is being done about it.

@supermoonrising

Men also experience unwanted sexual attention/behaviour, albeit at a lesser rate than women - this study puts it at 1 in 3 women in the past 12 months, compared to about 1 in 8 men. Though, among student age groups, males report experiencing much higher levels of unwanted female attention. www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/young-men-oftentimes-have-deal-unwanted-sexual-advances-women-180950278/ www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/85-002-x/2019001/article/00017-eng.htm Besides the frequency of sexual harassment, I guess the biggest difference is how intimidating it is to be harassed or receive unwanted attention by a physically stronger person. An annoying/inappropriate man is often very threatening for a woman, while an annoying/inappropriate woman is usually just annoying and inappropriate. I think some horrible men are aware of this and use it to their advantage, though I think there are some men who are unaware of how threatening an advance can be - it should be covered in schools really.

They are not afraid of being raped by women though, are they?

Predatory, or someone with learning difficulties / no social skills who thinks he's making innocent conversation and can't read the "Will you just fuck off" cues?
Could be either in my view.
She handled it brilliantly.

who thinks he's making innocent conversation
Aye right.
Innocent conversation with a 17 year old, trying to buy her things, trying to make her feel sorry for him, trying to get her to come to his house. He knew exactly what he was doing and nothing innocent about it.

Idk this wouldn't bother me. The weirdo types like this aren't usually much of a danger unless they get your name, number, give you a lift etc. The men that frighten me most are loud, drunk, shouty men. Absolutely hate walking past pubs and clubs. I always think something sudden and nonsensical will happen around those men. But these creeps, I know you're talking to me because you want me to get in your car or help you load your van or some rubbish. I'm not going to. I think with the creepy men it's important to teach girls not to believe a word they say. They can say they broke both legs and can't see, don't believe them and help them walk home - find someone else to help.

@CamomileTeabag

Predatory, or someone with learning difficulties / no social skills who thinks he's making innocent conversation and can't read the "Will you just fuck off" cues? Could be either in my view. She handled it brilliantly.

Schrödinger's rapist.