To think it’s ok to do ‘well enough’ at gcse’s

[Laughingstock91]

DS is doing well in school- I don’t know what his predicted grades are yet as he’s in year 9 and the school don’t do predicted gcse grades as they take the (sensible I feel) approach that it predicted grades too early on can cap achievement. I like this approach.

DS is doing well by their markers but gets very stressed by pressure. And the pressure seems to come from the get straight A’s & A* that seems to be hovering about - not from the school nescrssarily- but from an expectation in his peers that anything less is a failure. It drives me nuts! I got 8 GCSE’s grades a-c, did 3 Alevels grades a-c and then went to Uni and got a 2:1. I really want DS to pass his GCSEs and be able to go on and study but I don’t want him to feel ridiculous pressure to try and get straight A grades (or 9’s or whatever the modern day equivalent is.

But is that ok? Am I failing him by not pushing him? A friend with a child in private school where they get pushed to achieve straight A’s thinks I am letting him down but not saying he should aim for that! I just want him to do as well as he can but to not go mad with the stress of it all.

Aibu?

I think you do need to gently push encourage him to do the best he can. Getting higher grades takes a lot of hard work. However be careful about scaring him shitless that his life will be over if he doesn't pass everything with flying colours. Teens mental health is already fragile enough. Make him aware he can always try again. There's no shame in resitting exams, but it's a ball ache and it's best to try and get through them in year 11 with the grades he needs. Does he know what he wants to do after school yet?

It depends.
Things have changed a great deal. I went to University in the mid 80s, to do one of the most difficult to get into courses at a respected (now RG) university and the standard offer was BBB. Admittedly a high proportion of us had AAA or better, but we didn't need it. Bs and Cs would get you into university on plenty of "good" courses then, but not now. Yes, you can still go to University but those kind of grades will limit your choices, probably to the ex polys - not that there is necessarily anything wrong with that, and for some subjects they might be better, but if attending a "prestigious" university is important, Bs and Cs are unlikely to cut it these days.
My youngest is doing GCSEs this year and has just been looking at the requirements for the sort of courses he is interested in, to guide his A level choices. He's looking at needing AAA or A*AB at his favoured institution, which, to be fair, is very sought after - he might get an ABB offer from somewhere still good but a bit further down the rankings. But when I was a student CCC or less would have got him into those courses.
It's really important not to judge the current situation by the standards of "in my day" but to look carefully at current expectations.
Of course it isn't the end of the world if a pupil doesn't come out with all 9s at GCSE but there is no doubt that having the majority at 7 or above does help in the next stages. It's possible to do well despite less than stellar school results of course. My DH failed his A levels first time and had to resit, and is now a real international expert in his field, but he encourages our kids not to make the same mistakes as him, because despite having "made it" without great results, he knows it made things harder for him than strictly necessary, and had he worked to his potential at school things would have been a lot more straightforward.
I guess that's the bottom line - encourage your son to work to his potential. A full set of 9s isn't essential, and indeed doesn't guarantee future success or happiness, but a good set of GCSEs is likely to be a solid foundation for the future.

Surely it depends on your child's academic ability and overall resilience?

If your child works as hard as they possibly can and comes out with a bunch of 4s and 5s, they have absolutely done "well enough". If your child is really struggling with their mental health, then just getting out of bed in the morning might be doing "well enough". If your child coasts along without really trying negate they can't really be arsed, and comes out with a bunch of 7s/8s, then I would say that they haven't done "well enough" because they clearly haven't put the effort in.

For me, it's more about inputs than outcomes. "Good enough" will look different for every child. I don't believe in pushing kids to achieve certain arbitrary targets, but I do believe in teaching them to aspire to be the best possible version of themselves that they can be.

Kids should be aiming for the highest possible grades they can get. With a reasonable amount of effort. But no stress, sobbing or anxiety.

I would agree with you that the pressure is damaging.

I think children burn out, just as adults do.

FWIW, my parents sound rather like your friend - they absolutely believed that pressuring all of their children to get straight A/A grades was crucial. I can remember enormous angst when my older brother got a B in one subject - they demanded a re-mark and talked about it endlessly for weeks. I did get straight A/A GCSEs and excellent A Levels and all that jazz, and then I got into Cambridge and just lost my confidence completely. I really regret that. When my second-year exams happened, I knew perfectly well I hadn't done enough to get a first, and I told my parents this. They sent them out by letter after term finished, and I remember my dad coming leaping up the stairs to wake me up, with the letter in his hand, standing over me while I opened it. And he expected me to be absolutely gutted I hadn't got a first, because he would have been gutted.

I ended up with a 2:1 overall and I'm not remotely disappointed in that (to the best of my knowledge it's never held me back at all). But I am really sad that I wasted three years that I could have really enjoyed. I love the subject I studied and I wish I'd thrown myself into it more, gone to more lectures (I barely went). I really do think that having been pushed so hard through school spoilt university for me.

@Oblomov22 yes, we get a lot of sobbing, stress and anxiety now bless him and he’s only 14! He wants to do well but I don’t want it to be at the expense of his mental health!

Oh, and I'm sure (because I have had this conversation with them) that my parents truly believed that this pressure was just helping me to do 'the best I could'.

IMO it is a good life lesson to realise when you are sacrificing too much of your mental health or happiness in order to do 'the best you can'. Sometimes, 'not quite the best I could have done' is fine.

Fine to do reasonably well (ie A to C) at GCSE. I did fine at GCSE, C's across the board. Basically always did well enough to get to the next stage of education, then well enough for a foot in the door at interview. Thankfully I interview well, so my career has been okay so far. Conversely brother who was always the high achiever at school and uni didn't do that much career-wise and earns less than me. They are perfectly happy with their life. We both are. GCSE's are absolutely not the be all and end all. Neither is uni. Good work ethic and the ability to be happy in yourself are FAR more important to living a contented, healthy, sustaining life.

I agree that just getting what is needed to go onto the next stage really is all that is required. For the vast majority of things getting 8 GCSEs including English and Maths at Grade 4 or above is fine. If you want to go on and study something specific (e.g. A Levels) obviously there will be higher grades and getting the entry requirements will become the higher minimum you need.

If you need a Grade 4, then getting a 9 is, to some degree, irrelevant.

I also find it interesting how we put pressure on our children to "do the best you can" whereas actually as adults, many of us settle for less than the best we can, for other perfectly good reasons.

The kids who get the top grades aren’t pushed. They are a product of decades of involved parenting and as such have learned all the revision techniques they need to, to get the top grades. These kids often have parents who also did extremely well at GCSE and so can share tips including how to manage stress. The kids who get stressed are the ones whose parents do nothing to help (presumably because they can’t) but still pile on the pressure anyway.

@Ozanj

The kids who get the top grades aren’t pushed. They are a product of decades of involved parenting and as such have learned all the revision techniques they need to, to get the top grades. These kids often have parents who also did extremely well at GCSE and so can share tips including how to manage stress. The kids who get stressed are the ones whose parents do nothing to help (presumably because they can’t) but still pile on the pressure anyway.

That's not true.

I have worked with an awful lot of kids who were pushed to get top grades and did so.

Also, I got top grades because my parents pushed, and I was well into my 30s before I actually learned how to revise. I still find I keep having to learn strategies I should have acquired at school.

@Ozanj

The kids who get the top grades aren’t pushed. They are a product of decades of involved parenting and as such have learned all the revision techniques they need to, to get the top grades. These kids often have parents who also did extremely well at GCSE and so can share tips including how to manage stress. The kids who get stressed are the ones whose parents do nothing to help (presumably because they can’t) but still pile on the pressure anyway.

I did really well at GCSE. It was just potluck. My parents didn't do well and weren't particularly bothered about my schooling. It's nothing to do with involved parenting in any generation.

Secondary teacher here. I would just correct all the posts saying they are just a stepping stone. Due to so many students now getting 3As or A*at A level some unis do now look at GCSE as an indicator of work ethic and consistency. I 100% agree that unrealistic expectations and pressure are unhelpful but I also think this is the first step to young people being made o face the reality that they won't just get given what they want, they have to put in some serious graft. I think we've lost sight of the fact that needing to prioritise one thing (work) over another is part and parcel of adulting and needs to be done.

FWIW, my dd got straight 9s but certainly wasn't pushed. She was encouraged from an early age to always try her best with whatever she did, but not in a pushy way and never with any pressure. The only pressure that she had was self imposed, and even that was focused more on whether she was happy with the effort that she had put in rather than the grades that might come out of it.

TBH MN is the only place I ever see "10 good/high grade GCSEs" expressed as being an accepted/desirous norm. In my RL, most convos around GCSE's go like this:-

"How is dd/ds getting on with their GCSEs"

"Yeah fine, she/he needs to get on their college course/apprenticeship/do specific A-levels, and they're on target for that, fingers crossed!"

Said child gets minimum next step requirements, everyone is pleased 🤷🏼‍♀️

It sounds like he's more likely to do well of you don't put pressure on him.

Some people don't respond to pressure.

As long as he's setting time to revise outside of school, closer to the time I think thats enough.

@Oblomov22

Kids should be aiming for the highest possible grades they can get. With a reasonable amount of effort. But no stress, sobbing or anxiety.

Agree

@Ozanj

The kids who get the top grades aren’t pushed. They are a product of decades of involved parenting and as such have learned all the revision techniques they need to, to get the top grades. These kids often have parents who also did extremely well at GCSE and so can share tips including how to manage stress. The kids who get stressed are the ones whose parents do nothing to help (presumably because they can’t) but still pile on the pressure anyway.

I know many would like to believe this is true because it reflects well on them...but I just don't think it is.

I know many would like to believe this is true because it reflects well on them...but I just don't think it is.

YY.

Unfortunately, some children will find GCSEs a huge battle, and even the most brilliant teaching and involved parenting - and very hard work from the child - won't guarantee they do particularly well. And other children will coast through and conclude (as children do) that all this rhetoric about the need to work hard and knuckle down is nonsense, or that they're special because it doesn't apply to them. Neither of those are emotionally terribly great outcomes.

This is why I hate the 'you have to work hard to get results' line.

I think the UK is the only country who formally tests children at 16. It makes no sense to me that universities care about what level a child was performing at when they were 15/16.

I'm a teacher and wholeheartedly approve of your approach, OP, it's the approach I have with my own teen. The pressure of kids these days is awful and seems to be increasing yearly. I work in the independent sector and we have many Year 6s going to the counsellor because they are so stressed about their pre-tests, etc. It saddens me.

Parent to an Incredibly hard working DD here but, realistically compared to most of MN DCs she's Very Average

I think in some subjects no matter how much you try, how hard you work and no matter what extra curricular support you have it's inevitable that some kids will get a pass at absolute best. And, depending on what plans are next, that's OK.

I get it's dog eat dog out there and massively harder than when I - another Average Child - was at school. It's also about how they pick them selves up from the outcome of exams, working out what they could be good at that may not need an academic route into, then work your absolute arse off, be flexible, constantly look for how to be the best at your job .... those things are hugely important too.

I've worked with plenty of graduates who were so much more intelligent than me who crumbled quickly under pressure, weren't prepared to muck in when needed or too busy networking to actually do their job.

Regardless of me saying this I'm in a conastant state of low level anxiety these days at how she will fare at GCSEs in a few years

@Ozanj

The kids who get the top grades aren’t pushed. They are a product of decades of involved parenting and as such have learned all the revision techniques they need to, to get the top grades. These kids often have parents who also did extremely well at GCSE and so can share tips including how to manage stress. The kids who get stressed are the ones whose parents do nothing to help (presumably because they can’t) but still pile on the pressure anyway.

Learning revision techniques, exam technique etc is just as important as learning the core content. That can come from home or school, but it has to come from somewhere for kids to achieve the best they can. Unfortunately, some kids don't get it from either and set themselves up to fail because they spend inordinate amounts of time trying to learn the core content and still don't get the results they deserve because they don't revise effectively or don't understand exam technique to get the marks - that's the real travesty - the ones who spend a lot of time but still don't get decent marks/grades.

YANBU. As someone who was pushed at school to an abusive level & who, looking back I'm amazed didn't commit suicide because of it, I refuse to push my children. I have excellent exam results on paper but have PTSD amongst a variety of other mental health diagnoses. I'd much rather my kids have mediocre results even if they're technically capable of better, and have their mental health intact.

I think as long as not oxbridge that’s fine. I went to a Russell Group uni to study Law (and I’m early 20’s so not that long ago!), with only 5 GCSE’s. I have 1 A* and 4Cs because I sat the rest at foundational level.

My A Levels are much better. I just completed my Masters and have an unconditional offer to study my PHD in September. I honestly don’t think anyone has asked my GCSE grades since I applied to my undergrad via UCAS. Everyone else just makes sure I have the standard needed GCSEs but not grades.