LGBTQ talk in schools

[JaggedStone]

Named changed for this as could be outing.
We are very open with our children and explain life to them in ways they can understand and to ensure they are respectful of everyone and are always open and honest with us.
A LOT of parents have kicked up a fuss about the fact that teachers have spoken to the children today about LGBTQ but it is government mandated as compulsory so essentially the parents can not opt out of it unless they are planning to home school.
Some of the views seem quite hypocritical and some are saying they shouldn’t have these kind of talks yet.
AIBU to think that they are being unreasonable?

@Helleofabore

Before any shouts me down he had an amazing gay reception teacher who wears elements of (traditional) women's clothing, high heeled boots, jackets, skirts occasionally. Manicured false nails etc. My DS was and is completely non plussed by this as it should be.

Who and why would anyone shout you down?

Anyone on here. As with regards to my comments regarding non binary.

@nolongersurprised

Then you get posters falling over themselves to think of the poor ickle lesbians forced to have sex with trans women

It’s probably not something an adult, married lesbian who isn’t on TikTok, social media and/or dating sites is confronted with that much though.

Trans ideology is very much something women who have teenage daughters are aware of, with those with girls who are same sex attraction being hyper aware of. That being said, there still seem to be more kids around who identify as trans, “enby” with sexual preferences of “pan” than just girls who are attracted to girls.

I teach 18-21 year olds; I am pretty well up on teenagers and social media.

I do get where your concerns are coming from, and I think consent in general isn't all that well taught at schools.

But I still think this thread is a prime example of the MN echo chamber leaving posters thinking they sound reasonable when it's quite obvious they're putting on fake concern.

It is actually damaging, you know. MN used to be a place people could come to talk about issues. Now, it's a place an awful lot of vulnerable women won't even think of coming, because of the way trans issues become so dominant.

Anyway, I ought to go because I will spend all day on this otherwise. It is an important debate, I do know that, but I am really frustrated by it too.

@ItsCoachBombay

Must be that time of year, DS must have had some sort of talk. He's 7, came home and said "did you know, some kids have 2 daddies that love eachother and some kids have 2 mummies that live eachother" I said yes darling families are all different but as long as everyone is loved, and happy makes no difference.

And then the cheeky sod said. Can I have 2 mummies, that's two mummies who can cook me tea. Can you find another mummy please.

I replied, no I'm ok cooking tea on my own thanks, and that's not all mummies or women do. Maybe you should start helping me cook tea, so then it's our job together!

(For context I'm a lone single parent, it's just me and DS and I keep my private dating life, very private)

I'm also not gay 🤣 so slight problem with his plan, but didn't feel the need to divulge his error.

@lucillelarusso interesting choice of graphic. Most boys have deemed unicorns babyish by year four.
So either:
This is being taught to very young children.

The person who designed it has no idea how to engage age groups appropriately if meant for year four and above.

It's being specifically aimed at girls, for whom unicorns, like sloths and Angus cows are trending.

All problematic in their own way.

Flippin heck what a document 🤯

Anyone else shocked beyond belief that a discussion on lesbians and trans people has been turned into a discussion about "what FWR is like and why I don't like it"? What an unlikely sequence of events.
And yet, here we go, again.

If we support lesbians we're pretending or not posting in the right sections. If we don't we're homophobic. I'll carry on campaigning in real life, and perhaps post even less in places where I'm essentially called a liar about it, so no doubt that'll continue to be used as evidence no-one cares.

@SarahAndQuack

Any chance of an actual example of a thread like this? It is ridiculous to try to blame specific posters for not posting content as you demand it on topics of your choice. And then to use that as evidence that their opinions and comments are worth less than yours.

But I am not demanding anyone post anything. I'm merely making an observation, which is that MN regularly ends up with threads where people express lesbophobic views, and threads where people claim to be desperately concerned about lesbophobia, and it's quite obvious that the concern about lesbophobia only shows up in the context of trans issues.

I do understand what you mean and it's a pattern I've noticed too. There is a nasty lesbophobic / homophobic / biphobic undercurrent from a significant number of posters on many threads where sexuality is raised. Even on this thread, equating children being taught about LGB issues with being brainwashed into having anal sex... I don't tend to see this on topics where gender ideology is discussed, when suddenly everyone is very very concerned.

Perhaps these are different groups of posters, I haven't been arsed enough to start making lists of names to compare, but it's certainly a phenomenon I've noticed.

@EishetChayil

What LGBTQ+ education tends to be now is Stonewall/Mermaids propaganda, telling girls they're actually boys if they don't like pink and dolls.

This. Everything is centred around the "TQ" part. With a No Debate theme, generally.

@bishophaha

Anyone else shocked beyond belief that a discussion on lesbians and trans people has been turned into a discussion about "what FWR is like and why I don't like it"? What an unlikely sequence of events. And yet, here we go, again.

If we support lesbians we're pretending or not posting in the right sections. If we don't we're homophobic. I'll carry on campaigning in real life, and perhaps post even less in places where I'm essentially called a liar about it, so no doubt that'll continue to be used as evidence no-one cares.

If that's for me, I didn't mention FWR. Nor which section anyone is posting in.

Instead, it only surfaces in relation to trans issues.

Aha. One of the reasons I was against separating FWR into "sex and gender " etc was precisely this reason- that anything that was determined by sex or gender (such as sexual orientation) would get shunted off into the s&g board, which would become shorthand for "trans issues".

I was right.

I would expect, if that concern is genuine, that it would be quite visible on the site as a whole. Instead, it only surfaces in relation to trans issues. It's almost as if the concern about lesbophobia is not quite genuine, isn't it?

Again, your prejudice is clear. And it doesn’t seem to have any empathy for the many parents on this board with lesbian teens actually dealing with the impacts of a movement prioritising gender over sex. And the impacts of the movement telling teenagers they can change sex and anyone telling them that sex cannot be changed and seek mental support help for underlying issues is doing it out of hate.

You wonder why straight women are involved in discussing lesbian specific issues now, maybe you need to understand more about the current cohort of teenaged transitioners if you don’t see the connection.

And you question other posters about the ‘genuineness’ of their concern.

I do understand what you mean and it's a pattern I've noticed too. There is a nasty lesbophobic / homophobic / biphobic undercurrent from a significant number of posters on many threads where sexuality is raised. Even on this thread, equating children being taught about LGB issues with being brainwashed into having anal sex... I don't tend to see this on topics where gender ideology is discussed, when suddenly everyone is very very concerned.

Perhaps these are different groups of posters, I haven't been arsed enough to start making lists of names to compare, but it's certainly a phenomenon I've noticed.

Thank you! I really appreciate someone else saying they've noticed it - you start to wonder! I also raised an eyebrow about that anal sex post, but it doesn't seem to have bothered anyone else very much. And that doesn't require anyone to be posting in a different section - it's right here on this thread!

If that's for me, I didn't mention FWR. Nor which section anyone is posting in.

I assumed you included FWR when you said no-one on mumsnet cares about lesbophobia. Being as it's a board where it's often discussed.
Did you, or didn't you?

The pendulum has swung from section 28 through ‘it’s ok to be gay’ and now we’re at full on cloud cuckoo ‘humans can change sex through magic words of affirmation’.

I live in hope that it swings back to the middle before we get to full on queer theory ‘kids can consent’.

I think the concern about anal sex is that it is not pleasurable for women and normalising it means boundaries are blurred. Many gay men do not engage in it because it can cause pretty bad health issues like incontinence.
But ultimately sex education is meant to be teaching relationships and safe sex, not a how to guide.

@Onthedowns

Can you clarify what you mean by this please?

he had an amazing gay reception teacher who wears elements of (traditional) women's clothing, high heeled boots, jackets, skirts occasionally. Manicured false nails etc.

Ta

I don't think no one on MN cares about lesbophobia.

I do think that the vast majority of the pearl-clutchers on threads like this, who post their 'won't anyone think of the lesbians' comments, are not being particularly honest about their actual motivations.

@bishophaha

Anyone else shocked beyond belief that a discussion on lesbians and trans people has been turned into a discussion about "what FWR is like and why I don't like it"? What an unlikely sequence of events. And yet, here we go, again.

If we support lesbians we're pretending or not posting in the right sections. If we don't we're homophobic. I'll carry on campaigning in real life, and perhaps post even less in places where I'm essentially called a liar about it, so no doubt that'll continue to be used as evidence no-one cares.

100%.

I can’t imagine anything more supportive for young lesbians still at school than protecting them from the gaslighting idea that their same sex attraction is wrong and “transphobic”, which is a core tenet of teaching queer theory and trans ideology to school children. This happens. It is Stonewall’s official policy. To call it “contrived concern” is gaslighting in itself.

But I still think this thread is a prime example of the MN echo chamber leaving posters thinking they sound reasonable when it's quite obvious they're putting on fake concern

Well, statistically 1/10 (ish) of MN posters with daughters will have a lesbian daughter so “fake concern” is a bit of a stretch.

How many of the young adults that you teach are out and proud lesbians versus one of the 100 odd genders, some form of gender non-conforming, “transmasc” or whatever?

I work with young people as well and I can think of one - off the top of my head - who has realised at 17 that she’s lesbian and comfortable with that. Unfortunately she’s way outnumbered by the girls in their teens who may have once just realised that they were a girl who likes girls but who now identify as GNC, NB, some form of trans.

It’s not pseudo concern at all, especially as I do have a number of daughters

@SarahAndQuack

I don't think no one on MN cares about lesbophobia.

I do think that the vast majority of the pearl-clutchers on threads like this, who post their 'won't anyone think of the lesbians' comments, are not being particularly honest about their actual motivations.

Rubbish.

@nolongersurprised

But I still think this thread is a prime example of the MN echo chamber leaving posters thinking they sound reasonable when it's quite obvious they're putting on fake concern

Well, statistically 1/10 (ish) of MN posters with daughters will have a lesbian daughter so “fake concern” is a bit of a stretch.

How many of the young adults that you teach are out and proud lesbians versus one of the 100 odd genders, some form of gender non-conforming, “transmasc” or whatever?

I work with young people as well and I can think of one - off the top of my head - who has realised at 17 that she’s lesbian and comfortable with that. Unfortunately she’s way outnumbered by the girls in their teens who may have once just realised that they were a girl who likes girls but who now identify as GNC, NB, some form of trans.

It’s not pseudo concern at all, especially as I do have a number of daughters

I've taught many lesbian students, a few trans students, and lots who were still making up their minds. It's very normal. I also manage to teach them without interrogating them about what genitalia they prefer, funnily enough.

You wonder why straight women are involved in discussing lesbian specific issues now, maybe you need to understand more about the current cohort of teenaged transitioners if you don’t see the connection

This.

Even on this thread, equating children being taught about LGB issues with being brainwashed into having anal sex...

This comment was in reference to lessons to older students and the resource material used. The material related to only presenting a male view of anal sex and did not include any aspect of it regarding females. Including the potential harms that can occur during anal sex and particularly to females.

Again, these materials are sourced from external organisations by schools now. Hence why parents are so heavily involved in discussing them and wanting to review them before they are used with their children.

You're entitled to think that, sarah.
I'm entitled to think that people who call people liars but won't engage by answering questions about what information they've based that on are also perhaps not being honest.

Anyway, can we get back to the actual topic rather than "what mumsnet posters are like"?

@redbigbananafeet but it's not that simple is it? Which is why I asked for content on exactly what the school would be delivering, they never emailed me back.

And yes, I do feel for my 8yo that it is too young for these types of talks.