Page 19 | LGBTQ talk in schools

JaggedStone · 2022-01-26T22:50:39+00:00

Named changed for this as could be outing. We are very open with our children and explain life to them in ways they can understand and to ensure they are respectful of everyone and are always open and honest with us. A LOT of parents have kicked up a fuss about the fact that teachers have spoken to the children today about LGBTQ but it is government mandated as compulsory so essentially the parents can not opt out of it unless they are planning to home school. Some of the views seem quite hypocritical and some are saying they shouldn’t have these kind of talks yet. AIBU to think that they are being unreasonable?

bishophaha · 27/01/2022 22:39

Not one person has said they believe their lesbian daughters are trans.

I don't know what that means, sorry. Was this a particular thread?

I was talking about your post saying "the issue I have found young lesbians, and indeed not so young lesbians, bothered about is the tendency to presume if you're a bit butch you're probably trans and in denial, or you must want to be trans. I suspect it's the 2022 version of accusing lesbians of wanting to be men."

Other lesbian women and mothers on MN have also said "I am bothered about people assuming if you're a bit butch you're probably trans and in denial, or you must want to be trans."

You have said that people posting on MN in support of lesbians are pretending when any mention of the 'trans' word is present.

I'm not sure I'm getting anywhere here, possibly because we have different understanding of what the word 'lesbian' means, and despite my best efforts to try and parse your posts, it's getting hard when common terms have different meanings!

I'm off to bed...

Ceramide · 27/01/2022 22:41

I wish L, G and B weren't lumped together with T and Q. The first three are simply sexualities, while T is not, and Q is a 'catch all' term. What exactly does a transwoman have in common with a lesbian?

mummykel16 · 27/01/2022 23:31

53 year old woman arrested for being a feminist and putting up so called anti trans small posters saying 3+ women killed by men each week, domestic violence kills.

Pinkrose1111 · 27/01/2022 23:36

I'm sorry at 5 years old, I did not need to know about relationships etc. This is something you learn when you're older. What does a 5 year old need to know about having a girlfriend or boyfriend?? It's ridiculous. When I was 5 I thought boys were gross and had cooties lol. But my point is no 5 year old is thinking about relationships or even needs to know what they are etc. This is something you teach when they're older when start developing an attraction to others whether it's a boy or girl. We SHOULD be teaching how to spot toxic/narc relationships and signs of covert emotional abuse and how to regulate emotions/communicate and have healthy successful relationships regardless of the sex to kids when they're in secondary school. But not when they're 5-8. Like let them be kids.

Simonjt · 27/01/2022 23:40

@Pinkrose1111

I'm sorry at 5 years old, I did not need to know about relationships etc. This is something you learn when you're older. What does a 5 year old need to know about having a girlfriend or boyfriend?? It's ridiculous. When I was 5 I thought boys were gross and had cooties lol. But my point is no 5 year old is thinking about relationships or even needs to know what they are etc. This is something you teach when they're older when start developing an attraction to others whether it's a boy or girl. We SHOULD be teaching how to spot toxic/narc relationships and signs of covert emotional abuse and how to regulate emotions/communicate and have healthy successful relationships regardless of the sex to kids when they're in secondary school. But not when they're 5-8. Like let them be kids.

Do you have children? If so how did you hide your relationship status until they were older? How did your own parents hide their relationship status from you?

EeeICouldRipATissue · 27/01/2022 23:43

53 year old woman arrested for being a feminist and putting up so called anti trans small posters saying 3+ women killed by men each week, domestic violence kills.
I saw this on MN.
So went and had a look (as that's always what I do whatever I read)
It's not as simple as that, is it?
Her Twitter feed is very anti trans.
There were other stickers.
Not just that one.
Which were even posted on MN by the stickerer herself before the post was removed.
It's so disingenuous to say just a 53 year old woman posting I mean what is that even supposed to mean?!
I'm heading that age myself does that mean I can get away with anything as I'm a white, straight, non trans woman heading towards my fifties?!
I guess not

mummykel16 · 27/01/2022 23:47

@EeeICouldRipATissue

53 year old woman arrested for being a feminist and putting up so called anti trans small posters saying 3+ women killed by men each week, domestic violence kills. I saw this on MN. So went and had a look (as that's always what I do whatever I read) It's not as simple as that, is it? Her Twitter feed is very anti trans. There were other stickers. Not just that one. Which were even posted on MN by the stickerer herself before the post was removed. It's so disingenuous to say just a 53 year old woman posting I mean what is that even supposed to mean?! I'm heading that age myself does that mean I can get away with anything as I'm a white, straight, non trans woman heading towards my fifties?! I guess not

So she wasn't arrested for putting that sticker up then?

mummykel16 · 27/01/2022 23:50

@EeeICouldRipATissue

53 year old woman arrested for being a feminist and putting up so called anti trans small posters saying 3+ women killed by men each week, domestic violence kills. I saw this on MN. So went and had a look (as that's always what I do whatever I read) It's not as simple as that, is it? Her Twitter feed is very anti trans. There were other stickers. Not just that one. Which were even posted on MN by the stickerer herself before the post was removed. It's so disingenuous to say just a 53 year old woman posting I mean what is that even supposed to mean?! I'm heading that age myself does that mean I can get away with anything as I'm a white, straight, non trans woman heading towards my fifties?! I guess not

Oh and it means she is 53, I don't know why that confuses you

EeeICouldRipATissue · 27/01/2022 23:51

So she wasn't arrested for putting that sticker up then?
How would I know?
All I know from on here and further digging is it's probably not a case of '' "just this tweet of a sticker. ''

Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 27/01/2022 23:51

. I agree with you that if people are thinking really hard about someone's sex they can probably tell most of the time. But we don't do that in daily life.
Well I can't speak for you Sarah and there are always outliers who can't do things other people find easy but I have never got the sex or any person I've known wrong. So there is no reason to.assume I've missed sexed others. Very rare occurrences of someone managing to pass as the opposite sex in adulthood may have happened but unless it was with some frequency, it is of no relevance to the debate. Certainly those people committing atrocities on women's bodies seem to highly accurately know which bodies to commit them on.

EeeICouldRipATissue · 27/01/2022 23:53

Oh and it means she is 53, I don't know why that confuses you
No, that bit didn't confuse me. Just what has her age got to do with anything?!
53 isn't bloody old!

Pinkrose1111 · 27/01/2022 23:53

@Simonjt of course I have children that's why I'm on mumsnet haha. And it's not about hiding relationship status, he knows he has mummy and daddy, and we both love him very much and we love eachother very much. But other than that I don't tell him anything. And that's all I knew when I was his age aswell. And if he does ask anything I'll explain to him what he needs to know relevant to his age but this is something we'd speak about AT HOME if/when ds asks. NOT SOMETHING WE LEARN ABOUT IN SCHOOL. This is my point. I didn't learn anything about relationships when I was 5 and I didn't need too. Forget the LGBT aspect for a minute it's not about that. 5 year olds-8 year olds should NOT be being taught about relationships end of. What does a 5-8 year old need to know about relationships and having bf and gf? Like what are they actually going to do with that information? At that age school should be fun and innocent, learning literacy, numeracy, playing with friends etc. like I said just let them be kids.

mummykel16 · 27/01/2022 23:54

@EeeICouldRipATissue

So she wasn't arrested for putting that sticker up then? How would I know? All I know from on here and further digging is it's probably not a case of '' "just this tweet of a sticker. ''

That's exactly what it was and exactly what I posted, as for anti trans that seems to mean anything not In full agreement with trans

mummykel16 · 27/01/2022 23:56

@EeeICouldRipATissue

Oh and it means she is 53, I don't know why that confuses you No, that bit didn't confuse me. Just what has her age got to do with anything?! 53 isn't bloody old!

It was part of the headline, as it so often is

Simonjt · 27/01/2022 23:57

[quote Pinkrose1111]@Simonjt of course I have children that's why I'm on mumsnet haha. And it's not about hiding relationship status, he knows he has mummy and daddy, and we both love him very much and we love eachother very much. But other than that I don't tell him anything. And that's all I knew when I was his age aswell. And if he does ask anything I'll explain to him what he needs to know relevant to his age but this is something we'd speak about AT HOME if/when ds asks. NOT SOMETHING WE LEARN ABOUT IN SCHOOL. This is my point. I didn't learn anything about relationships when I was 5 and I didn't need too. Forget the LGBT aspect for a minute it's not about that. 5 year olds-8 year olds should NOT be being taught about relationships end of. What does a 5-8 year old need to know about relationships and having bf and gf? Like what are they actually going to do with that information? At that age school should be fun and innocent, learning literacy, numeracy, playing with friends etc. like I said just let them be kids.[/quote]
But you’re teaching him about straight relationships, so you’re either okay with him knowing about straight relationships, or you’re not letting him be a kid.

How do you stop him teaching his fellow classmates about relationships? As thats what he’s doing if he tells anyone he has a mum and dad.

EeeICouldRipATissue · 27/01/2022 23:58

And if he does ask anything I'll explain to him what he needs to know relevant to his age but this is something we'd speak about AT HOME if/when ds asks. NOT SOMETHING WE LEARN ABOUT IN SCHOOL
That's just it, though.
Not everyone will learn about same relationships at home even though you say yours will.

mummykel16 · 28/01/2022 00:04

I'm a little surprised some have a problem with kids knowing about same sex relationships because it's seen everyday

EeeICouldRipATissue · 28/01/2022 00:11

I'm a little surprised some have a problem with kids knowing about same sex relationships because it's seen everyday
Depends on your where it's seen everyday though?
It certainly isn't where I grew up.
(UK village)

Pinkrose1111 · 28/01/2022 00:18

@Simonjt I feel like I'm repeating myself or going in circles? I just said I don't want him to be learning about ANY relationships?? Who said anything about straight relationships? Me telling him mummy and daddy love him and love eachother isn't teaching him about relationships. It's telling him mummy and daddy love him? The same way I tell him Grandma loves him, Uncle loves him, Granddad loves him etc. This need to push sexualisation onto kids younger and younger is fricking scary. Because that's where it's leading too. And noone can seem to answer my question as to WHY 5 year olds need to know about relationships? What are they going to do with this info? The most they need to know at this age is friendships and that's it.

Simonjt · 28/01/2022 00:21

[quote Pinkrose1111]@Simonjt I feel like I'm repeating myself or going in circles? I just said I don't want him to be learning about ANY relationships?? Who said anything about straight relationships? Me telling him mummy and daddy love him and love eachother isn't teaching him about relationships. It's telling him mummy and daddy love him? The same way I tell him Grandma loves him, Uncle loves him, Granddad loves him etc. This need to push sexualisation onto kids younger and younger is fricking scary. Because that's where it's leading too. And noone can seem to answer my question as to WHY 5 year olds need to know about relationships? What are they going to do with this info? The most they need to know at this age is friendships and that's it.[/quote]
Yes it, its telling your son that you and his dad are in a relationship and that in your relationship you love eacj other, everything you do in his presenve models your relationship.

Why do you think your son knowing about your relationship would push sexualisation onto him?

mummykel16 · 28/01/2022 00:26

[quote Pinkrose1111]@Simonjt I feel like I'm repeating myself or going in circles? I just said I don't want him to be learning about ANY relationships?? Who said anything about straight relationships? Me telling him mummy and daddy love him and love eachother isn't teaching him about relationships. It's telling him mummy and daddy love him? The same way I tell him Grandma loves him, Uncle loves him, Granddad loves him etc. This need to push sexualisation onto kids younger and younger is fricking scary. Because that's where it's leading too. And noone can seem to answer my question as to WHY 5 year olds need to know about relationships? What are they going to do with this info? The most they need to know at this age is friendships and that's it.[/quote]
You have to do what you feel is best, because often what is put forward is Not what is on offer at schools, it is soooo deceitful

Enough4me · 28/01/2022 00:31

@EeeICouldRipATissue, aside from school, I think it's more on TV and the media too, same-sex relationships are shown as normal because they are the same as opposite-sex relationships. Most of us probably have at least one lesbian or gay family member or friend, it's not usual or fluid and does not change or go against science. I also think most us probably know women who never wear dresses or makeup and men who use makeup because they enjoy it or grooming products to the nth degree, so DCs are seeing society move away from stereotypical presentations.

I think the key concern that parents have is deceit, not being told that their DCs are being 'taught' about the new gender ideology and blind acceptance that having a thought changes your sex. I wouldn't have wanted my DCs confused at school.

EeeICouldRipATissue · 28/01/2022 00:34

Me telling him mummy and daddy love him and love eachother isn't teaching him about relationships. It's telling him mummy and daddy love him?
Course it is - if you're telling him that mummy and daddy love each other, are you also letting him know that it's OK for two mummies or two daddies to love each other too?

EeeICouldRipATissue · 28/01/2022 00:37

Why do you think your son knowing about your relationship would push sexualisation onto him?
Exactly, where does sexuality and/or sex come into it

Pinkrose1111 · 28/01/2022 00:39

@Simonjt No Offence, but I'm starting to think you're a troll. Where did I say that I told my DS that we're in a relationship??? I've never once told my DS this. To my DS we are just mummy and daddy. The same way Grandma is Grandma and Uncle is Uncle etc. Like I said if he ASKS I'll explain what's relevant and age appropriate. But no more. And DEFINTILEY not to be taught at school.

And of course relationships lead to sexualisation, like hello?? A relationship with zero sexual contact is a friendship. It's the sexual part that makes it a relationship. This is why I'm saying kids do not need to know about any type of relationships at that age.

When they're in secondary school of course teach them all about relationships LGBT etc. I support kids learning about ALL family dynamics esp lgbt. But not at 5 years old. No way on Earth. Call me old fashioned but back in primary school all the kids I remember who were into relationships that young all ended up sexually active by the time they were 13 and pregnant before 18.

There is literally ZERO reason why 5 year olds needs to learn about relationships.