LGBTQ talk in schools

[JaggedStone]

Named changed for this as could be outing.
We are very open with our children and explain life to them in ways they can understand and to ensure they are respectful of everyone and are always open and honest with us.
A LOT of parents have kicked up a fuss about the fact that teachers have spoken to the children today about LGBTQ but it is government mandated as compulsory so essentially the parents can not opt out of it unless they are planning to home school.
Some of the views seem quite hypocritical and some are saying they shouldn’t have these kind of talks yet.
AIBU to think that they are being unreasonable?

This is what I mean. It's a cop out. If you push it further people start to squirm. It should be ok for a lesbian woman to say that she is never attracted to male people, whatever their gender identity.

transwoman calls herself a lesbian

Because we see plenty of threads where lesbians are being excluded from their groups because they are up front about it. We also see transitioned males in representational lesbian roles such as Monroe Bergdorf telling lesbians that were not allowed to protest about issues that were important to them at marches, because it was excluding males who called themselves lesbians.

There are actually quite a few issues where sex matters and other lesbians don't agree with you on this from what I have read. It is great that you have not experienced any negative impact from it.

Yes, but even having been told, they might still not think it's an issue

If they aren't advocating for people to be exclusively same sex attracted, and proud of it, they've rather lost their way, don't you think?

I agree questions would need to be evaluated - what I had an issue with was the way you tied this to a single anecdote as if that were representative.

I have seen enough tiktok and Youtube videos by now to know that it is not a 'single anecdote'. But it is one that I directly witnessed.

And yet, you would downplay it as being meaningless if I read that correctly.

@GaiusHelenMohiam

It’s a problem when teenage girls are indoctrinated to believe they CAN’T say no to a male ‘lesbian’ without being shunned and ostracised. It’s happening.

It’s easy to brush off as a forty something lesbian who isn’t dating, I suppose, as it doesn’t affect you.

I wouldn't know, not being a forty-something lesbian.

No, but to be serious, I do work with a lot of younger lesbians, it's in the nature of what I teach, and I do not recognise this presentation of the situation.

I'm not saying it never happens, or everyone is rainbow-coloured and happy all day, but I think on MN there is a perception that this is a grave, widespread problem and if you make an attempt to suggest it's not a universal experience (as I'm doing here), often, people discount that because it doesn't fit the narrative.

transwoman calls herself a lesbian

They aren't. Category error. This is clearly the difference with people who think meanings and groupings are important and people who don't.

@Helleofabore

I agree questions would need to be evaluated - what I had an issue with was the way you tied this to a single anecdote as if that were representative.

I have seen enough tiktok and Youtube videos by now to know that it is not a 'single anecdote'. But it is one that I directly witnessed.

And yet, you would downplay it as being meaningless if I read that correctly.

No, not at all that it's meaningless!

I really was just saying that I found the movement from survey design to a single anecdote a bit worrying. But I'm probably picking up on something that wasn't very relevant, sorry.

I wouldn't know, not being a forty-something lesbian.

Even easier to brush off then isn't it? 🤷‍♀️

@Ereshkigalangcleg

transwoman calls herself a lesbian

They aren't. Category error. This is clearly the difference with people who think meanings and groupings are important and people who don't.

Sorry, but you can't just state that as a fact and expect to steamroller every other view.

Unfortunately, whether you like it or not, there are people out there who would say transwomen can be lesbians. It's a view that exists. It's like the debate about God. There's absolutely no point in simply stating to people 'but God doesn't exist. But God doesn't exist' as you watch them walk into churches. You may well be right, and we have no particularly good way of telling ... but you're not going to convince them, are you?

Both women and men have told me that misogyny isn't a big problem in society. I disagree, as someone directly affected who directly experiences it. I've seen the tendency other women have to downplay it. I don't blame them. Why wouldn't they? It's shit being aware how little women and girls matter.

Unfortunately, whether you like it or not, there are people out there who would say transwomen can be lesbians.

Yeah, flat-earthers and people who think evolution didn't happen also exist, it doesn't make their incoherent opinion correct in any way.

Ok well I’m saying it as the parent of two very woke teenagers (both at art college/university) who tell me the lay of the land. I’m watching it happen particularly in DDs friendship groups.

Particularly nasty bullying at school of one girl (lesbian) who was asked out by a non binary boy and said no, I’m a lesbian. That’s transphobic apparently. As a lesbian she should have been open to dating an NB boy as they are not male DD showed me the Snapchat messages (this was a couple of years ago before she went full on TRA) because it was so foul. DD didn’t agree with the bullying then but sadly these days I think she’d be the first to put the boot in.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

I wouldn't know, not being a forty-something lesbian.

Even easier to brush off then isn't it? 🤷‍♀️

I'm 37, is all.

Sorry, but you can't just state that as a fact

Yes I can, sorry. Just like I can state that TWANW. Whatever fringe opinions some people have doesn't make biologically male people women. They have no argument why they are other than "they say so". It's a faith based ideological belief. There always comes a time when we have to draw lines.

Sorry, but you can't just state that as a fact

Can we not state that the earth is round as well as that lesbians are females attracted to females...same-sex attraction.

Yeah, flat-earthers and people who think evolution didn't happen also exist, it doesn't make their incoherent opinion correct in any way.

Indeed, there are all sorts of beliefs in the world. Many people believe in god. I'm perfectly free to say he doesn't exist. I'm actually agnostic, but I don't believe that there is the god of the bible, unlike a lot of people in the world. I also don't believe there is a teapot in orbit or a Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Transwomen can’t be lesbians IS a fact.

Words have meaning. No male has ever or can ever be a lesbian (or a woman for that matter) because lesbians are same sex attracted females and human beings can’t change sex.

Someone saying a trans woman can be a lesbian is saying a man can be a lesbian

Lesbians are same sex attracted women

A man by definition cannot be a lesbian

So they may believe a man can be a lesbian but they would be wrong wouldn’t they

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Yeah, flat-earthers and people who think evolution didn't happen also exist, it doesn't make their incoherent opinion correct in any way.

Indeed, there are all sorts of beliefs in the world. Many people believe in god. I'm perfectly free to say he doesn't exist. I'm actually agnostic, but I don't believe that there is the god of the bible, unlike a lot of people in the world. I also don't believe there is a teapot in orbit or a Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Absolutely.

@Theeyeballsinthesky

Someone saying a trans woman can be a lesbian is saying a man can be a lesbian

Lesbians are same sex attracted women

A man by definition cannot be a lesbian

So they may believe a man can be a lesbian but they would be wrong wouldn’t they

Who do you think you're going to convince here?

Stating something endlessly doesn't mean other people are suddenly going to shift their beliefs. They'll just reply 'oh but did you not know, gender identity is a thing, blah blah blah'. Won't they?

So there's not much point having the conversation IMO.

Stating something endlessly doesn't mean other people are suddenly going to shift their beliefs.

Yes, as pp said, it's a free country and people can have all sorts of beliefs, luckily, unlike Iran or Uganda where it might mean life or death whether your partner is male or female.

A lot of ppl still think a trans woman is a woman who presents as male hence thinking women are being incredibly mean not to want them in eg toilets

The deliberate muddling of language is a problem so it’s always worth spelling out exactly what is meant

Who do you think you're going to convince here?

No one cares about convincing people out of their fringe beliefs of any sort if someone starts talking about something I think is preposterous most of the time I will shrug and move on to something else.

Someone saying a trans woman can be a lesbian is saying a man can be a lesbian

Lesbians are same sex attracted women

A man by definition cannot be a lesbian

So they may believe a man can be a lesbian but they would be wrong wouldn’t they

They would, and apart from the few people with a GRA which is an ill considered law that shouldn't have been passed, they would be wrong in law in England and the devolved nations. Sexual orientation is a protected characteristic. Men aren't lesbians and males aren't women.

*with a GRC. The GRA is the ill considered law