LGBTQ talk in schools

[JaggedStone]

Named changed for this as could be outing.
We are very open with our children and explain life to them in ways they can understand and to ensure they are respectful of everyone and are always open and honest with us.
A LOT of parents have kicked up a fuss about the fact that teachers have spoken to the children today about LGBTQ but it is government mandated as compulsory so essentially the parents can not opt out of it unless they are planning to home school.
Some of the views seem quite hypocritical and some are saying they shouldn’t have these kind of talks yet.
AIBU to think that they are being unreasonable?

@BowlofRamen

Wow. Another mumsnet thread littered with blatant homophobia. Absolutely disgusting, not to mention depressing.

As for the poster who kept their dc at home because they have ASD and would find it too confusing WTF? As someone who is bisexual, married to a woman and who also has a child with ASD, your ignorance is shocking beyond belief.

Age appropriate teaching is a real thing and I believe in it, but simply talking about same sex attraction and love is appropriate at ANY age and if you disagree, well...I think that says a lot about you.

Children do not need to be shielded from people like us. We are part of the world. That isn't going to change.

I couldn't agree more. Children should know about same sex couples from the age they know about anything else. It's like deciding to avoid telling them that squirrels exist in case they get confused and think they're a squirrel. Or that they be confused about rabbits now they know squirrels exist.

@Goatinthegarden

This is it perfectly!
It’s about all the different types of families children may have.

@Crimesean

I'd be fine with my DS learning about LGB - but NOT about the T or the Q. He's too young (4.5) - and children are very suggestible.

As for Peter Tatchell going into schools - this is a man who advocates for adults being able to legally have sex with pre-pubescent children! . Who the fuck thought it was appropriate for him to even be near a child, let alone allowed to talk to whole classes of children?!

Do you have a source for this?

@Globaluser

School needs to get considerate of parents views. If some feel this information would be too much for their primary school children then they should learn about it at a later date.

@FairyLightQueen if someone feels their child is too young,
I don’t think anyone has the right to tell them their wrong. Your question regarding if you and your DW shouldn’t tell your young children about your same sex relationship is very silly. Your children grew up with your family setting whereas many have not.
So if they don’t feel their children should know till their teens then so be it.

Personally I think 8/9 is a good age to learn.

To 'know' and 'learn' what?

Here's one, Red.

safeschoolsallianceuk.net/2019/09/14/easy-as-pie-the-rebranding-of-paedophilia-morning-star/amp/

Or do you think kids should be taught regressive stereotypes around gender identity?

It doesn’t matter what I think should be taught. It matters that people think their own beliefs should be taught but another person’s shouldn’t. Who gets to say what is the “correct” teaching? And why does anyone think they have the right to be the arbiter of what is taught and what isn’t? 20 years ago everyone thought teaching that kids can have two mummies was abhorrent. In 20 years, it may be you who is on the “wrong” side of the argument so you might want to be wary about claiming others should have no rights to fight for your opinions or even be able to express them.

FWIW, my 12 year old hasn’t had any “teaching” around trans issues at school but has formed her own opinion on it based on discussion with her friends and doing her own reading.

For red

What is different today? In the late 90s, Peter Tatchell of Outrage!, now campaigning for lowering the age of consent for all to 14, reviewed a grotesque and shocking book, Dares to Speak: Historical & Contemporary Perspectives On Boy-Love. Tatchell wrote: "Abusive, exploitative relationships are indefensible but... [there are] many examples of societies where consenting intergenerational sex is considered normal, acceptable, beneficial and enjoyable by old and young alike."

www.theguardian.com/world/2001/mar/03/gayrights.weekend7

but has formed her own opinion on it based on discussion with her friends and doing her own reading.

Free reign into trans ideology doesn't tend to end well.

The national curriculum has a big focus on British values. Tolerance being a big part of that. That's why it's right to teach families come in all shapes and sizes and X religion believes y. The curriculum takes care not to endorse or overly highlight beliefs that conflict with British values, such as some religions thinking women are inferior and periods are dirty.

However, parents with these beliefs are entitled to withdraw their children.

Trans ideology conflicts with a lot of other groups so is not tolerant in its nature. This is why schools need to tread very carefully with it and it should be treated similarly as some religions, of which harmful ideas are covered at further education level when there's less danger of misconception.

And this is Tatchell discussing his views on children accessing porn.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4429999-Posie-Parker-on-GB-News

I think the concern about anal sex is that it is not pleasurable for women

Anal sex can be pleasurable for women

Personally my DD has known about same-sex relationships since she was about 3. I think she was talking about a princess marrying a prince in a film or something, and she wouldn't want to kiss a boy, ewww , so I just said "well, you don't need to kiss or marry anyone, but some girls kiss and marry girls and some boys kiss and marry boys, it doesn't matter"

@Marmarind

I think the concern about anal sex is that it is not pleasurable for women

Anal sex can be pleasurable for women

Not in the same way. The absence of a prostate gland makes it very different from the male experience. People object to it being taught in schools as it is a medically risky activity.

BoredZelda

And why does anyone think they have the right to be the arbiter of what is taught and what isn’t?

And yet you are telling parents that they should not have an opinion on how their child is taught.

In 20 years, it may be you who is on the “wrong” side of the argument so you might want to be wary about claiming others should have no rights to fight for your opinions or even be able to express them.

I am not saying people have no right to fight for their opinions? Where have I said that? And fuck off with the 'right' or 'wrong' side of the argument. I have a 15 year old in a friend group of 7 teenagers and 5 of them are trans. At least 3 are seeking medical transition in the future.

The 'right' side of the argument is ensuring that children have appropriate information without any political agenda being pushed. And the 'right' side of the argument is ensuring parents have the right to confirm what is and is not being presented and by whom.

When a young child is led to believe that having particular interests can mean that they are the opposite sex - they have been failed. If you don't agree, that is fine.

I think I have read extensively enough on all sides of the argument and from personal experience to know that there are issues with the resources being used in some schools.

On the point of why should DC be taught "gay people existing just is, but trans people existing is an ideology", because it's true.

Gender allows a big hairy man to say he feels like a woman. He can a moment later say he feels like a man again, and switch, and switch...

How can that be explained to children?

And also how can we explain homosexuality to children if we can’t define sex?

Gender ideology and same sex attraction can’t coexist. One cancels the other out.

This. I am fucking horrified that people in the 21st century are still hung up about people's sexuality.

How you describe it doesnt sound terribly controversial, depending on the age of the child.

I think people worry when very confusing ideas about gender are introduced to children, especially parents who don't 100% buy into gender ideology in our western society where there are fewer and fewer gender stereotypes

@redbigbananafeet lgbt matters. Same sex relationships etc.

Seeing as how there have been documented cases of schools teaching children that lesbian means non-men loving non-men I will be incredibly careful about what my DC will be taught in these classes. Some lessons for children are regressive and downright homophobic and misogynist all under the guise of teaching LGBTQ tolerance. The fact is that we seem to have come to a point where certain rights that the LG and some B have fought for and won are now starting to be at odds with the demands of some of the TQ. So I don't want my child (or to be frank, any child) taught that the natural boundaries of so many LBG are somehow wrong and need to change.

True, and how do we teach children basic sex education in year 6 and also expect them to understand that girls can have a penis too and men can be mothers?

Gender cannot fit in year 6, and to be honest where does it fit in education?

Maybe secondary as part of citizenship and people who have different beliefs?

Age appropriate PHSE stuff is fine but there will always be parents who panic that their kids will be gay if they do much as hear about the existence of LGBTQ+ people.

I'm going to be a pedant and remind everyone that the original reason for PHSE was to tackle the epidemic of male violence against girls in schools. Now girls are called bigotted if they object to mixed sex toilets.

@SarahAndQuack

Please don't tells us where we are, thanks. We are the ones who speak out about lesbophobia. I don't recall seeing your name ever defending lesbians. Practice what you preach. Your protests are disingenuous.

'Defending' lesbians from what, though? If you mean I don't post on the endless trans threads, that's true.

However, I do post on the threads that periodically come up, where actual lesbians talk about actual, lived experiences of being discriminated against. IME, those regularly attract posters who are openly homophobic. I don't see the anti-trans lobby rushing onto those threads to help.

@SarahAndQuack I don't see the anti-trans lobby rushing onto those threads to help.

Then you certainly don't pay attention. Because it's almost always us 'anti-trans lobby' as you call us, that are the only ones defending lesbians. Because it sure as shit aint the pro-trans lobby.