LGBTQ talk in schools

[JaggedStone]

Named changed for this as could be outing.
We are very open with our children and explain life to them in ways they can understand and to ensure they are respectful of everyone and are always open and honest with us.
A LOT of parents have kicked up a fuss about the fact that teachers have spoken to the children today about LGBTQ but it is government mandated as compulsory so essentially the parents can not opt out of it unless they are planning to home school.
Some of the views seem quite hypocritical and some are saying they shouldn’t have these kind of talks yet.
AIBU to think that they are being unreasonable?

Just simply saying some people have two mummies etc is on the national curriculum in primary.
It's in year 4 pshe/s&r for a start. I can tell you though that children really don't understand it much beyond 'my family is different to x but similar to y. My family is similar to y but different to x in this way though'.

[quote Globaluser]@narcdad there is nothing wrong with what you’re doing in my opinion.[/quote]
I agree

@BowlofRamen

Yes, I'm very aware *@narcdad* that it is a spectrum. An incredibly varied spectrum, but didn't you say you'd keep off your other dc?....

Yes I did and will unless the school are more specific this time round about the content, a flyer promoting pride is not enough detail for me. I want to know what is being discussed, the delivery and content. If I am not happy with it, I will again take my other child out.

@Globaluser

School needs to get considerate of parents views. If some feel this information would be too much for their primary school children then they should learn about it at a later date.

@FairyLightQueen if someone feels their child is too young,
I don’t think anyone has the right to tell them their wrong. Your question regarding if you and your DW shouldn’t tell your young children about your same sex relationship is very silly. Your children grew up with your family setting whereas many have not.
So if they don’t feel their children should know till their teens then so be it.

Personally I think 8/9 is a good age to learn.

Exactly, my dd now 9, is very socially behind her peers, academically she's at expected levels, most of the teachers forget to take this into consideration and she can become very confused and anxious.

I think it depends on what is being taught. As long as they're not being taught gender over sex, then I'd be fine with it I think as long as the detail was appropriate for their age. If they were talking about gender, transitioning and being born in the 'wrong body' then I would absolutely not allow my child to attend.

transgender rights
What rights do you think transgender people should have that they don't already?

Can you think of any ways transgender demands might impact other vulnerable groups, such as women or people of different faiths?

@WorriedMumsDontSleep

Just simply saying some people have two mummies etc is on the national curriculum in primary. It's in year 4 pshe/s&r for a start. I can tell you though that children really don't understand it much beyond 'my family is different to x but similar to y. My family is similar to y but different to x in this way though'.

Yes, and if that is all that is being covered, I don't know that there are people on this thread that would disagree. Providing it then doesn't cross in attempting to virtue signal 'love' as has been seen in some material produced that leaves the slogan open to misuse. Such as 'love is never bad' or 'all love is good' - which can be used by abusers. This has happened (I think in 2020) be a well meaning organisation.

HENCE it is right for parents to check what is being taught and by whom. It is not right to attempt to shame any parent who wishes to check this, or to assume it is being done for hateful reasons.

I don't think it can be repeated enough. The toolkits that schools are using are not standard issue from the Education department. Too often they are provided by groups promoting their own political interests.

But there seems a lot of posts on this thread who seem very keen to demonise any parent wishing to check and ensure the message being given to their children is factual and not misinterpreted by either the teacher or the student.

Although, as in all groups, of course there will be some who are doing for hateful and phobic purposes. Anyone aware of some of the failures in these resource toolkits of late, and of some of the people being invited into the schools to deliver these classes to under 18, is not actually likely to be checking the lesson from a position of hate.

There are plenty of reasons to be concerned and it either shows naïveté or poster's own political agendas to not acknowledge that.

@MorningStarling put like that it's quite a scary observation

@narcdad, so would you do the same for all kinds of sex/relationship education? Or just LGBT?

The new she curriculum is a big departure from what was previously taught and includes teaching children from primary school that there are 101 genders. Teenaged children are not allowed to identify as straight or gay anymore but are told that it’s too early to know and that it’s more complex than that.
Whilst this may be true… it is confusing many and it is very controversial.
More parents should read the new curriculum so that it doesn’t come as such a shock when their kids come home talking about it.

Above should say * pshe but predictive text changed it to she.

Yes, it's absolutely in parents rights to check and ime, providing concrete examples of what you'll be covering gets better engagement and allows parents to reinforce at home.
Curriculum talks have become standard across primary over the last decade. In subjects such as maths etc transparency has good outcomes. Therefore, to be deliberately wooly or evasive would be a red flag to me.

Schools also have to walk the tightrope of tolerance and it's not unusual for parents to decline participation for cultural reasons.
However, lines have been drawn about what cultural practices are tolerated, with those that damages children like fgm being made illegal.
Gender ideology has the potential to damage healthy bodies and so for that reason alone shouldn't be in school

@GaiusHelenMohiam, you will be accused of homophobia if you are seriously comparing the two. Are gay people blurring sexual boundaries? And if that's not what you're saying, why bring it up?

Why on earth should parents have to be consulted or give consent?

This just implies that there is something wrong about someone being part of the LGBTQ community.

Tolerance and respect for diversity (which includes different sexual orientations) need to taught at school so we don't keep having people who think they can dictate how people love and what they do in their private lives.

Too many people using religion and cultural sensitivity to justify prejudices...

As long as it is age-appropriate this is just another part of the curriculum.

Parents who try to fight the progress of transgender rights are fighting a losing battle. Progress can't be stopped. I think the next "thing" will be the liberalisation of attitudes around the age of consent. Not in the immediate term but certainly within two or three generations. Issues regarding transgender rights and homosexuality will be fully liberalised by then, so the people of those generations will have to find a new cause to be liberal about.

Please stop mixing transgender rights with the right of those who are homosexual or bisexual. They are two very different things.

And to be honest, I don't necessarily think your point is true. Progress is not always good and sometimes things society has been convinced is progressive and liberal is harmful.

You only have to look at Michel Foucault and other 'intellectuals' who persuaded the French government to decrease the age of consent. For those who don't know Foucault was a paedophile. That was in the late 60s, early 70s. The ramifications of this is still being felt because those intellectuals rose to positions of power and stopped discussion and silenced abuse victims (who by the way, were not covered by any laws as they were 14 )

There is being 'liberal' and there is being convinced that something is 'liberal' when it is actually harmful to other groups in society and their rights.

@BowlofRamen the same, content and words are very important to me, especially with regards to sex and relationships, as well as having a child with asd who can misinterpret words and struggle with context.

I remember my sex education at school and it was grim.

The same can be said when the school had a keeping safe talk. My daughter was terrified of men when we walked in the dark for several months after.

I never found out what was said and from now on I will be more assertive when these talks are scheduled. Not just because she's autistic but since becoming a parent I am so much more aware of just how vulnerable child are in terms of language, how it can be difficult to process the social side of society and its expectations.

@narcdad, so would you do the same forallkinds of sex/relationship education? Or just LGBT?

I'm going to tell you something that came from my dd that her and her friends experience at secondary school on a regular basis.

Homophobic bullying alongside general arsehole kids is pretty rife in secondary schools. It is NOT coming from students with different religious backgrounds and beliefs. Whilst they may not agree with it or believe in it much, as a rule they keep.their mouths shut. Are polite to their fellow students . No real problems.

Its the rest of the kids. The ones who know all about it. The ones who's parents probably thought they had raised to be understanding and accepting..

So before banging the drum about religious beliefs or parental beliefs not being a sufficient excuse and being solely responsible for all the problems.gay kids face. Maybe just take a look at your own kids

@GaiusHelenMohiam

I have a 17yo. I can tell you now that this stuff is insidious.

She has told me more than once that it’s social suicide to be straight, or lesbian. She identifies as a non binary pansexual, along with all her peers. They are not ALLOWED (socially) to be either gay or straight. This is homophobia. It is actual lesbian erasure. There are no more teenage lesbians in her social set.

This is not faux concern.

Exactly. No teenager can identify as straight or gay anymore. They are literally taught that things are more complex than that and they should not limit themselves. Teachers are leaving as they can’t in all conscience teach this. It is actually causing MORE confusion than before. Kids who know they are straight or gay are being told they are wrong.

Why on earth should parents have to be consulted or give consent?

Have you actually been following some of the resources being used? Do you have a school aged child?

@Whatwouldscullydo, was I supposed to be quoted there?