Boris Johnson’s birthday party

[Cheekypeach]

Here we go again…

For too long Labour took the piss out of the working classes in the U.K. and treated them with champagne socialist disdain

Agree, what were they thinking by investing so heavily in the NHS, SureSart, min wage, increasing higher rate tax... even introduced a 10% rate (unfortunately removing it as well :( )

Meanwhile those working class Tories lovies have helped us all with cutting free school meals, removing surestart, 11 years of austerity, highest uni fees in the world....and 6m waiting for treatment.....

I keep seeing people saying the Tories will win... but no one can explain how they pick themselves up from thsi scandal unless Johnson goes. 62% of people think Johnson should resign. How does he turn that around once people have moved to the anti-Johnson column?

Exactly. And invoking Brexit @hayley037? That was six years ago in a different world.

I think they will manage to win by fanning people hate and fears, from getting Brexit done to blaming Labour for not protecting the rights of women even if there is no evidence that they will.

I won't even bother voting in my tory safe seat , no point, people don't follow politics here and believe the daily Mail : sun etc, everyone I work with all still champion Boris Johnson! 🙄
It'll be the 'red wall ' that needs a new Labour Party and leader and new policies , this is the key and the LP need to do something here but probably won't :(

@the80sweregreat

A new leader would energize the Tories and they are just good at elections , plus people don't like Starmer or Raynor ( not where I live anyway !) People do seem to forgive them much more and yes , it is a mystery !

A new leader would energise the Tories if they were decent. There isn't anyone immediately obvious. Actually I foresee a pretty low turnout at the next GE, Starmer doesn't really energise people and neither do any of the Boris replacement options.

@the80sweregreat

I won't even bother voting in my tory safe seat , no point, people don't follow politics here and believe the daily Mail : sun etc, everyone I work with all still champion Boris Johnson! 🙄 It'll be the 'red wall ' that needs a new Labour Party and leader and new policies , this is the key and the LP need to do something here but probably won't :(

That’s what I always said. I spoilt my paper last time. Here the Tory MP got 54% of the vote last time. But since then bigger majorities have been overturned - I think it was 22,000 in North Shropshire. Now call me a dreamer, but that’s given me the impetus to vote for whoever looks most likely to do it here next time.

I keep seeing people saying the Tories will win... but no one can explain how they pick themselves up from thsi scandal unless Johnson goes. 62% of people think Johnson should resign. How does he turn that around once people have moved to the anti-Johnson column?

62% of how many people. When were they asked? Day after the news of the party broke emotions are running high This can change within a few weeks (and with Russia causing issues this is very positive for Johnson) Voters are very forgiving when it comes to elections. I marched against the Iraq war gave up my membership but come election I voted for Labour (as many others did)

Another reason is we are a conservative voting country (not particularly right wing abs certainly not a left wing country). The are not lead by ideology, they are extremely pragmatic when it comes to uniting and winning elections and their policies are often viewed as less risky than Labours as not spending so much. Labour could learn a few things from the Tories when it comes to party politics come election time. There is a reason why the Tories are so successful they are always looking to the next election

I don’t think Johnson shall be leading the party by the next election but they will (unless it’s so clear he has lied it’s there in black and white) hold out until the right person is found. Their aim isn’t just to win the next election it’s to hold on to that huge majority

Blair also adopted the position of looking towards the next election - certainly in the dying days of the Major Government.

As for Tories holding on to their huge majority - they weren't able to after Thatcher was defeated. Major squeaked home but it took them until 2019 to get the majority. We shall see.

@Peregrina

Exactly. People had the idea in the 1990s that the Tories would go on winning, as they’d won 4 elections in a row. But they didn’t. Labour won in 1997 with an overwhelming majority.

What was it that led to the Tories losing in 1997? Sleaze. Same as what’s happening now under BoJo.

Starmer hasn't got that killer instinct , sadly
He just comes across as a bit wet and I don't know what they stand for or their policies.
To win hearts and minds of Tory voters won't be easy for them. They are a tough crowd, also very loyal.

There’s quite a large chunk who aren’t that loyal - the ones that got Blair the landslide then Johnson

Lots of central voters who go for a central party

Then again I’m not sure Cons can do it with another leader, or Starmer, I think low turnout might happen

But it took Labour to have an extremely popular and charismatic leader who was centre left. He was able to win over the centre voters that is essential for Labour to win. New Labour transformed politics in this country. Call me Tony seemed so modern especially compared to John Major (who now is not longer Mr Grey but the voice of reason)

I like Starmer but he just doesn’t win over voters and that is what is needed, people switch off and Rayner is too left wing

I wonder if Starmer would be another Attlee? 'A lot to be modest about' according to Churchill - but what a revolution the 1945 Government was.

@OhWhyNot

I keep seeing people saying the Tories will win... but no one can explain how they pick themselves up from thsi scandal unless Johnson goes. 62% of people think Johnson should resign. How does he turn that around once people have moved to the anti-Johnson column?

62% of how many people. When were they asked? Day after the news of the party broke emotions are running high This can change within a few weeks (and with Russia causing issues this is very positive for Johnson) Voters are very forgiving when it comes to elections. I marched against the Iraq war gave up my membership but come election I voted for Labour (as many others did)

Another reason is we are a conservative voting country (not particularly right wing abs certainly not a left wing country). The are not lead by ideology, they are extremely pragmatic when it comes to uniting and winning elections and their policies are often viewed as less risky than Labours as not spending so much. Labour could learn a few things from the Tories when it comes to party politics come election time. There is a reason why the Tories are so successful they are always looking to the next election

I don’t think Johnson shall be leading the party by the next election but they will (unless it’s so clear he has lied it’s there in black and white) hold out until the right person is found. Their aim isn’t just to win the next election it’s to hold on to that huge majority

UK is not a conservative voting country, there is a left voting majority but the vote is split.

2019:
Tory 42%
Labour 40% + Lib Dem 7% + SNP 3%
(plus others incl. PC, Green)

Re. 62% of how many people opinion polling is representative and this is a tracking poll. The public do not easily return from a negative to a positive view of a politican.

@Peregrina

I wonder if Starmer would be another Attlee? 'A lot to be modest about' according to Churchill - but what a revolution the 1945 Government was.

I have wondered if some people might have had quite enough of charisma for now? A bit of boring and managerial would be a nice change tbh.

I think you’re right @truthfullylying. The chaos of the Johnson era is very wearing now. It’s incredible to think it’s only 2.5 years, it feels like eternity. What we need is a grown up leader. People have had enough excitement.

Who said he would win the next election

And why have the Tories won so many elections …

As for LD they were quite happy to jump in bed with the Tories not so long ago

truthfullylying I thought that Starmer is absolute opposite of Johnson. But it hasn’t played out that way

To be fair, we haven’t really had the chance to see what Starmer’s made of. Taking over the opposition at the beginning of a pandemic was never going to be an easy gig.

@OhWhyNot

truthfullylying I thought that Starmer is absolute opposite of Johnson. But it hasn’t played out that way

Labour are currently 10 points ahead in the polls.

I don't understand what more people think Starmer could do? Who would do better,?

Scotland is gone, the SNP are not going to lose there without a major shift/shock.

What % do people think Labour could be on??

For too long Labour took the piss out of the working classes in the U.K. and treated them with champagne socialist disdain

I live in a constituency that had never been Conservative, always Labour, and in rhe 2019 GE it went to the Conservatives (narrowly by around 800 votes but still a win for them). Central government seems to forget that people often vote on local basis and on local issues especially if they feel far removed from London-centric policies.

Literally all the Conservative candidate had to do to win was show up. The Labour MP was never seen, he relied on the fact it had "always" been a red constituency and so he rarely visited, rarely was out in the community, and rarely engaged with local people. The incoming Labour candidate followed his example, presuming they would win by default. The Conservative candidate odious little shit that he is was out knocking on doors, asking people what they want to see for the area, making promises, getting out in the community. Visibility wins votes, complacency doesn't.

I feel Starmer would be a much safer pair of hands than virtually anyone likely to succeed Johnson. He was a very competent and conscientious DPP, and I'd feel much happier about him being in charge if the Ukraine situation gets any worse.

@Trilley

I feel Starmer would be a much safer pair of hands than virtually anyone likely to succeed Johnson. He was a very competent and conscientious DPP, and I'd feel much happier about him being in charge if the Ukraine situation gets any worse.

He might not have the ‘personality’ of Johnson but at least he would take the job seriously.

He might not have the ‘personality’ of Johnson but at least he would take the job seriously.

I'd have thought that dull but honest might be quite a good selling point for Starmer at this point.

Exactly. Given that electing someone with a supposed personality has left us with a corrupt, lazy, incompetent lying oaf, I think we've all had enough of "personality".