Child safeguarding- who is right?

[sparkycats]

Who is right in this situation?

My DH is one of the coaches for a children's sports team which DS attends. The coaches are all volunteers giving up there own time to coach the teams which all their dcs attend along with other dcs. It's busy up at the venue with lots of other teams playing of all different ages with matches against away teams too with other parents and dcs.

On the coaches group they get a message from a disgruntled parent saying that her DH arrived to pick her child up at the venue afterwards and no-one was there, they were worried about where their dc was and when they went home they found their dc9 had walked home alone. The dc had said everyone left and he was all alone so decided to walk home.

Discussions happen on the group and it turns out several of the coaches were still there 20 minutes after pick up time, and had not seen this child. More coaches comment that they saw this child on their way out at the end when coaches etc were all still around. They stopped him and asked if he was ok, he said he was, they assumed he was allowed to walk home alone. Turns out he had been dropped off unattended and the parents were late to collect.

The club is very lax on safeguarding, parents aren't told implicitly that they have to stay but all other parents do. There is no sign in/sign out procedure. Coaches keep an eye out for the kids during/after the matches as much as they can. But it's not an official club, it's run totally by volunteers and payment for membership is paid annually.

This parent/ child has form.

Who is right?

@sparkycats

Why is it a problem for the safeguarding-lead to have your email address? They should already have it in case of emergency.

To be frank you are not coming off well here. It is not the child's fault that this happened, nor the parents, it's the clubs fault. You made it sound like it was a kick around in the park when, in actual fact, it's a proper club and part of a wider organisation. You should be concerned that your own child attends a club where there are no clear policies.

We've volunteered at our cricket club for over 20yrs. Everyone who is involved with the club are dbs checked, even DH who is now only involved in adult cricket still has to renew every 2yrs, as do my sons who now help out with the youth cricket. No one gets paid.

Attendance is only confirmed informally through WhatsApp and/ or an app. I have never seen a register taken.

@sparkycats Are there no registration forms? Emergency contact details?

What happens if a car hits the crowd of spectators? Do they have a contact for the child?

Or a child has a nasty injury and the parent freaks out and is no help - can they advise paramedics about allergies and medical stuff?

They should also have proper attendance records for referencing. Who was there on the 12th when it turned out Billy had measles and need informed? Who was there on the 19th when Mary says, six months, later that a parent was racist to her? Who was there on the 24th when Donald says that coach Brian exposed his penis in the toilets and that Stephen and John witnessed it too, but Stephen’s dad thinks that might be the week they were self isolating?

@converseandjeans

If the adults running the club aren't prepared to do these things then they shouldn't be volunteering to work with DC.

I think most people end up being roped in rather than stepping forward saying they would love to volunteer.

The parents shouldn't have been so late to pick up. Nor should they have left the child unattended without telling anyone. Whether it's formally written down or not. At 9 years old they could hurt themselves & if no parent was around who would sort them out?

Should people who can't be bothered to stay/are always late to pick up from volunteers be told not to bring their child to the activity?

That’s still not an excuse. If you work with kids, even if you’re roped in then you need to accept the responsibilities.

The club should have a proper written policy about not staying or being late. For example, at the playscheme the policy is that being more than 20 minutes late four times in one year means no place going forward unless the committee agree that it’s exceptional circumstances (mainly because it’s the committee/volunteers who are having to stay late when parents are late) so for example we didn’t count the time virtually all parents were late because of an accident on a local road.

But they didn't. They thought he had left with a parent. No way would they have let him walk home alone if they had known that's what he was doing.

Yes, but when it comes to safeguarding of children, "thought" isn't good enough, only "know" is. If a member of the coaching team did not clearly see that the child had left with their parents then it is a big problem and it needs to be sorted out.

I don't know if you drop off or pick up your kids from other activities but I would hope that most of them have either a member of staff or adult volunteer checking that children are leaving with their parents/guardian/designated pick up adult before releasing them. I know when I pick up my youngest from dancing the class teacher does this, same for other activities for my younger children.

@JustLyra

Attendance is only confirmed informally through WhatsApp and/ or an app. I have never seen a register taken.

@sparkycats Are there no registration forms? Emergency contact details?

What happens if a car hits the crowd of spectators? Do they have a contact for the child?

Or a child has a nasty injury and the parent freaks out and is no help - can they advise paramedics about allergies and medical stuff?

They should also have proper attendance records for referencing. Who was there on the 12th when it turned out Billy had measles and need informed? Who was there on the 19th when Mary says, six months, later that a parent was racist to her? Who was there on the 24th when Donald says that coach Brian exposed his penis in the toilets and that Stephen and John witnessed it too, but Stephen’s dad thinks that might be the week they were self isolating?

We completely an annual registration form with emergency contacts and we pay our subs at the beginning of the season.

I meant there is no register that I have seen other than the phone app of who is there/isn't there at any week. I don't think they keep any record of who is dropped off/picked up by who and when or which parent stays/goes. Lift shares are frequent with no register of who is responsible for that child whilst they are there.

There is permission to administer medication etc on the annual registration form.

[quote nokidshere]@sparkycats

Why is it a problem for the safeguarding-lead to have your email address? They should already have it in case of emergency.

To be frank you are not coming off well here. It is not the child's fault that this happened, nor the parents, it's the clubs fault. You made it sound like it was a kick around in the park when, in actual fact, it's a proper club and part of a wider organisation. You should be concerned that your own child attends a club where there are no clear policies.

We've volunteered at our cricket club for over 20yrs. Everyone who is involved with the club are dbs checked, even DH who is now only involved in adult cricket still has to renew every 2yrs, as do my sons who now help out with the youth cricket. No one gets paid.

[/quote]
Yes- I am now concerned about the safeguarding aspect in relation to all the children. This was a lucky miss and highlights some problems. That's why I am asking.

I don't want my name if I submit an enquiry or complaint to be passed onto someone where the coaches might find out. DH has told me to leave it so I am going behind his back and it's a very close knit group. I wouldn't want to be the one who has complained and is seen to cause problems/shut the club down. But at the same time they need to sort something out. This was a lucky miss. If something had happened to that child they would be seriously in the s*. If it turns out they haven't been following proper procedures and I highlight this to those above it might not work out well for me in a social context.

Does the safeguarding person have to keep my details private if I request it?

@Shitfuckcommaetc

But they didn't. They thought he had left with a parent. No way would they have let him walk home alone if they had known that's what he was doing

But they did.
If that kid had be hurt or gone missing on the way home, do you think "assuming" would cut it?

Also the way you speak about this child is abhorrent, and you should be ashamed of yourself really. You're implying that because of his behaviour he's not worthy of basic safeguarding?!
Cop on to yourself!!!

Don't be ridiculous! No I am not implying that at all. I am just pointing out the parent and the child have form for thinking the rules don't apply and that this is not the first incident with this child.

Nowhere have I said it's his own fault if anything had happened and he doesn't deserve to be safeguarded.

I can understand the parent sending an angry and accusing email to the coach when she found her child alone at home. But at the same time the child made out like the coaches walked off and left him on the pitch intentionally on his own, which was not the case. The child willingly and knowingly wondered off of his own accord. Knowing his parents weren't there and that he had not told anyone he was going. So the parent is kicking off about something that didn't happen. BUT I do agree the safeguarding simply isn't up to scratch. Other parents don't seem bothered, I am the only one who actually seems to care about what happened with this child.

@sparkycats Thats good that there are forms. At least that’s something. Hopefully they carry them every week and also have regular checks for updated mobile numbers.

Lift shares are frequent with no register of who is responsible for that child whilst they are there.

That’s a big issue with unspoken rules - who is responsible if that child gets hurt and needs to go to hospital?

Sorry if you think I’m over invested in your thread. I’ve run a voluntary playscheme & after school club for over 10 years and it really bugs me when people run things so badly as it reflects on all volunteers.

We encountered two big issues right back when I started that could have caused us all, but especially me as my career was working in schools, a world of trouble because of things that happened with two adults (one who smacked their own child while volunteering and one who got injured in an accident and their emergency contact was uncontactable which left us with their child and a dilemma).

They need policies for the “that’ll never happen” stuff

@Whichcatthatcat

It seems, OP, that you have no idea what you are talking about. First you said it was an informal club, turns out it's it's national organisation. Then you said your OH definitely is not dbs checked, now you say he has a CRB. (If it is a crb then it must be at least 10 years old and should be updated to a dbs)

You weren't actually present when the incident occurred and neither was your OH.

If I was you Id leave it well alone and let OH sort it out.

OH isn't sorting it out and the coaches on the messages DH showed me seemed to be very defensive and with a tone she was in the wrong. The parents and child has got themselves a reputation even though they haven't been there long which could cloud the coaches judgement on how they need to improve procedures. I get the impression the child is close to being asked to leave anyway.

I am wondering if and how they are going to firm up safe guarding procedures. None of the other parents seem to see an issue with the safeguarding and have just rolled their eyes at the regular antics of the parents as many know them well like we do in various situations and know their reputation for upsetting/annoying other people and the conduct of their dc.

Sorry i think the kid and parents were wrong here
My 10yr old goes to so much sport and has for years i have never seen a sign in sheet in my life.

He should have known his parents were coming if he didn't that is their fail if he did and chose to leave and walk home on accompanied that's his fault.
I dont see why they should overhaul their entire operation because one family dont follow the rules. Id also give them a warning they either stay or ensure they there on time or hes no longer welcome

worriedatthemoment

This is also why less and less people want to volunteer as many parents want to just leave and go and turn up when they like , then if child is hurt its someone elses fault
My dh is giving up coaching after years as its getting harder and harder to do with less respect from many parents for the time they give up

Well if the general feeling - which it seems to be on this thread - is that parents can just drop off a 9 year old, disappear off & rock up 30 mins late & said child has decided to take himself off & it's the fault of the volunteers - then I don't think OPs DH should continue coaching.

Why aren't the parents responsible for their own child?

I'd be embarrassed to be so late rather than trying to blame some poor volunteer. I'd also be cross with my child.

Coaches need to be very clear that all parents must stay otherwise they can't coach.

A parent volunteer could step forward to take a register & tick off when they get picked up. Maybe said parent could step forward to help if they're especially concerned 🤷🏻‍♀️

[quote JustLyra]@sparkycats Thats good that there are forms. At least that’s something. Hopefully they carry them every week and also have regular checks for updated mobile numbers.

Lift shares are frequent with no register of who is responsible for that child whilst they are there.

That’s a big issue with unspoken rules - who is responsible if that child gets hurt and needs to go to hospital?

Sorry if you think I’m over invested in your thread. I’ve run a voluntary playscheme & after school club for over 10 years and it really bugs me when people run things so badly as it reflects on all volunteers.

We encountered two big issues right back when I started that could have caused us all, but especially me as my career was working in schools, a world of trouble because of things that happened with two adults (one who smacked their own child while volunteering and one who got injured in an accident and their emergency contact was uncontactable which left us with their child and a dilemma).

They need policies for the “that’ll never happen” stuff[/quote]
No thanks for your comments. I also work in childcare and I am very familiar with the safeguarding policies that should happen. I don't normally go to this club but must admit when I have I have found it lax. It was probably only a matter of time something like this happened with this boy or another.

I think because I know how it should be I seen to be the only one bothered. It doesn't matter if the child is ok and other parents stay so they are safe, it's the what ifs.

I haven't read all of the replies. My DH coaches my son's team (although the are DC a little younger) he volunteers to coach, but parents are responsible for their own kids. It's a different set up to childcare or even a 'drop & run' type club imo.

If a parent couldn't accompany their DC it's their job to make sure the coach/ another parent knows and watches out for the child.

For example if a child needed the toilet mid-game, it wouldn't be the coaches job to take them or supervise, they are their to coach the team.

The cheek of the parents dumping their DC and then turning up late to collect them and blaming someone else for it, it's shockingly entitled.

@HandWash

I haven't read all of the replies. My DH coaches my son's team (although the are DC a little younger) he volunteers to coach, but parents are responsible for their own kids. It's a different set up to childcare or even a 'drop & run' type club imo.

If a parent couldn't accompany their DC it's their job to make sure the coach/ another parent knows and watches out for the child.

For example if a child needed the toilet mid-game, it wouldn't be the coaches job to take them or supervise, they are their to coach the team.

The cheek of the parents dumping their DC and then turning up late to collect them and blaming someone else for it, it's shockingly entitled.

It's not the first time and they regularly inconvenience others by asking/expecting free childcare.

This is there general attitude. They also always take their dcs word for things, despite their being evidence to the contrary. I expect she took his word that he was left on his own knowingly by the coaches and kicked off. She wouldn't see if as their own fault or that of their child as that's not the way they think. There child is #1.

@Figgygal

Sorry i think the kid and parents were wrong here My 10yr old goes to so much sport and has for years i have never seen a sign in sheet in my life. He should have known his parents were coming if he didn't that is their fail if he did and chose to leave and walk home on accompanied that's his fault. I dont see why they should overhaul their entire operation because one family dont follow the rules. Id also give them a warning they either stay or ensure they there on time or hes no longer welcome

The kid was wrong to leave alone. The parents were wrong to be late.

However, it shouldn’t have been able to happen. That’s why they need an overhaul.

Policies are put in place to protect children because children are too young to protect themselves. They’re not old enough to make decisions in those circumstances.

And besides which the OP has said that none of the paperwork has said that parents must stay, it’s an unspoken rule. I’d bet good money thy even if everyone does know that’s the rule other parents occasionally pop to a shop, or to pick up/drop off another child from activities because that’s just what happens with relaxed unwritten rules.

It shouldn’t have been able to happen. This time it didn’t have any bad consequences, but next time it could so they need things in place to prevent next time.

The parents and this specific child are a red herring in many ways.

That could have been any child at the group from the sounds of it, and it could be any child next time if the policies aren’t tightened up.

That’s the issue. Not one child and one set of parents.

As a parent I would hope and expect that if I was late for any reason (I would be apologetic) they would keep my child safe until I got there.

@JustLyra

The parents and this specific child are a red herring in many ways.

That could have been any child at the group from the sounds of it, and it could be any child next time if the policies aren’t tightened up.

That’s the issue. Not one child and one set of parents.

Exactly this.

Yep agreed.

@Figgygal

Sorry i think the kid and parents were wrong here My 10yr old goes to so much sport and has for years i have never seen a sign in sheet in my life. He should have known his parents were coming if he didn't that is their fail if he did and chose to leave and walk home on accompanied that's his fault. I dont see why they should overhaul their entire operation because one family dont follow the rules. Id also give them a warning they either stay or ensure they there on time or hes no longer welcome

They should do this because they are otherwise legally liable for the child's wellbeing and safety and if an accident happens they could go to prison.

OP you need to stop focussing on this particular child and their parents. The safeguarding needs sorting so that things like this can't happen again.

Any parent could be held up by an emergency and what happens to their child in that situation?

How would you feel if your child was left unattended at the end of a club they attend?

We require parents to stay. We check out kids parents are there if not parent is rang and told to come back. They are given a warning. So far that's been enough. Club need to send formal letter out and get parents to sign up to club rules.

@sparkycats I think I would ask the safeguarding person whether they would keep details of who flagged the concerns private or not.

I think it's fair to say, though, that you might have to live with the fallout if someone figures out that it was you who raised the concerns.

From what you have said, although of course I don't know, it would seem unlikely that there would be any serious fallout for the club, more a tightening up of procedures. I would imagine that many clubs are run in the way even though it's not a great situation.

Hi all safeguarding concerns will remain anonymous the club should have a child welfare/safeguarding officer

@Oxborn

Hi all safeguarding concerns will remain anonymous the club should have a child welfare/safeguarding officer

All safeguarding should remain anonymous.