Child safeguarding- who is right?

[sparkycats]

Who is right in this situation?

My DH is one of the coaches for a children's sports team which DS attends. The coaches are all volunteers giving up there own time to coach the teams which all their dcs attend along with other dcs. It's busy up at the venue with lots of other teams playing of all different ages with matches against away teams too with other parents and dcs.

On the coaches group they get a message from a disgruntled parent saying that her DH arrived to pick her child up at the venue afterwards and no-one was there, they were worried about where their dc was and when they went home they found their dc9 had walked home alone. The dc had said everyone left and he was all alone so decided to walk home.

Discussions happen on the group and it turns out several of the coaches were still there 20 minutes after pick up time, and had not seen this child. More coaches comment that they saw this child on their way out at the end when coaches etc were all still around. They stopped him and asked if he was ok, he said he was, they assumed he was allowed to walk home alone. Turns out he had been dropped off unattended and the parents were late to collect.

The club is very lax on safeguarding, parents aren't told implicitly that they have to stay but all other parents do. There is no sign in/sign out procedure. Coaches keep an eye out for the kids during/after the matches as much as they can. But it's not an official club, it's run totally by volunteers and payment for membership is paid annually.

This parent/ child has form.

Who is right?

@converseandjeans

Graphista JustLyra

I used to actually attend training and matches when DS was younger even though DH was coaching as I wasn't 100% sure how he would manage if something happened to DS such as a broken arm. He wouldn't be able to just disappear off and concentrate on his own child. I would never have considered just leaving him on his own with no parent present. I didn't consider DH as a 'present' parent as he was so busy concentrating on all the other kids.

Did your DH consider the same thing or just you?

Any organised activity with kids should have a plan of who is going to deal with an injured child, and when coaches/leaders own children attend there should be specific policies about that.

For example discipline. Our policy is always that you never dealt with your own child in any issues because neither they, nor the other child, will ever think it’s fair.
With us we also never allowed parents helpers to be in the same group on trip unless there was absolutely no choice because it’s unfair and changes experiences.

The parents in the OP were in the wrong, that’s not being debated. But the club are the one with the responsibilities to all of the children and their policies shouldn’t allow this to happen.

Overall they have ultimate responsibility for all of the children attending their group. It’s down to them to make it safe and that means planning for nightmare kids, injures, and shitty parents. It’s part of what you have to so. And if they can’t do it safely and follow the guidance in place by their national organisation they have no business organising their activity in the first place.

The parents being in the wrong doesn’t negate the fact that the club are ultimately responsible.

The parent is a dick but the club is massively in the wrong.

If the club truly understood safeguarding, they might realise that the failure to collect the child, as well as all the problems the community as a whole seem to have with the family, might be an issue in itself.

Is there neglect occurring?

Children need organisations such as sports clubs to step up and help them, especially if it is known that the parents are neglectful on a regular basis.
It may well be the parents fault, but other adults need to Safeguard children against them.

No point apportioning blame but not helping, that's the sort of thing that can escalate to some of the horror stories we see in the news.

@Whichcatthatcat

If the club truly understood safeguarding, they might realise that the failure to collect the child, as well as all the problems the community as a whole seem to have with the family, might be an issue in itself.

Is there neglect occurring?

Children need organisations such as sports clubs to step up and help them, especially if it is known that the parents are neglectful on a regular basis.
It may well be the parents fault, but other adults need to Safeguard children against them.

No point apportioning blame but not helping, that's the sort of thing that can escalate to some of the horror stories we see in the news.

No, none of that. Loved and well looked after.

@Graphista no I'm not the OP

@Flynnqwer its not insane you can have injuries etc and a parent may need to tale them to hospital etc
You can have 2 coaches to 20 odd lads and 17 is still considered a child

@converseandjeans

Repent

Obviously we disagree. The parents were ridiculously late to pick up & should have stayed anyway. I feel that they are at fault. It's not how I parent. I'm fairly laid back but it wouldn't occur to me to drop & go. Clearly people on this thread think this is ok which I find more worrying.

I haven't seen a single person say the parents are OK. I don't know where you have seen that. I think you're misunderstanding the point people are making.

Mmm. Well just had a reply from the FA email and from the local county safeguarding officer.

They have sent through the FA policy and it is extremely comprehensive. I have scanned the relevant bits and see absolutely nothing about a sign in/out procedures or anything about parents staying/going. They are clear out the coaches responsibilities during matches but have a checklist of things the coaches must do at the venues but I don't see anything that explicitly says when the children are/aren't the coaches/parents responsibility. This seems a massive loophole when every other thing is covered extensively.

Can you ask them specifically - who is responsible for the children during this time, do they need to sign in and out, and do parents have to stay?

Well safeguarding is all about, 'what happens if' scenarios. So I'd email and ask, 'what happens if..'

I have emailed the county child protection person back and without telling them about the specific situation I have asked a number of questions and made a number of points about what should be place in regards to organisation of signing in/out, parents staying/going, injuries, parents being late, ensuring children aren't leaving unnoticed or unaccompanied and with the right adult.

Will be interesting to see what he says.

My dc actually plays another sport too who have a exactly the same processes as this one and it's very lax. Depending on the answer I might flag this up there too as it's run by the same FA.

@RepentMotherfucker

Well safeguarding is all about, 'what happens if' scenarios. So I'd email and ask, 'what happens if..'

Yep. I have done that. With specifics about the organisation of signing in/out, collection, attendance records and parent responsibility to stay/go.

You're on it OP

This is an attachment of part of the documents sent. It's the only one that says the coaches duty in terms of procedures for running the training/matches. The organisation of it. Looks like it's left quite open to how that coach wants to run their trans.

Everything else is about conduct and what to do if situations.

FWIW I agree with you @Bagamoyo1 - when my DCs went to a rugby activity like this, I (and apparently all the other parents) took it entirely for granted that we stood on the sidelines for the entirety of the session. Kids were sent back regularly to parents for snacks, lacing up boots, water, etc and it was made quite clear when signing up for the activity and at the beginning of every session, parents were told to stand where their kids could see them, to have the snacks and water ready etc. Team talk at the end on the pitch, kids run back to parents. If my kid wandered off then I would have to take responsibility, not the coaches who only see my kid an hour a week in a crowd of a bunch of others playing british bulldog. They would also have no chance of making sure that my kid went back with the "right adult" - how could they, they don't know me at all, 1 hour a week on the sidelines. It's not like school, or a paid childcare setting.

I think there is a limit to the safeguarding expectations we as a society can put on volunteer run activities that meet infrequently. If these expectations become too onerous, then these activities will either become too expensive to run, or too risky for the volunteers. A reasonable balance for sports activities in public parks is to say that parents cannot drop and run, and must remain on site while a child is participating, while they are there the parent retains primary responsibility for the safeguarding of their child and isn't "handed over" to coaches for the duration of the activity.

I've just asked DH who takes our 9yo to footy training. I used to take him but that was a couple of years ago so he was 7, and I know them the coach would check they'd walked off the pitch to parent at the end.
DH said that now they don't keep a eye on each child as they walk to the exit, they just ask each child of their parent is there and if they say yes they let them go.
It's a well-established FA affiliated club with a safeguard lead, and I know they've worked with the league safeguarding team before when there was an issue with a parents behaviour towards his child's team member.
I'm surprised OP that your DH is allowed to help coach without a DBS. That's an absolute no no at our club. A parent could ref or be the linesman at matches but absolutely could not participate in coaching in any capacity without a DBS.

So OP you are doing absolutely the right thing by looking into it. If a parent is going to be 20mins late for pickup I'd expect them to let the coaches (or maybe another parent aware). But it sounds like your club needs to introduce specific guidelines and expectations for both parents and coaches.

@Xiaoxiong

FWIW I agree with you *@Bagamoyo1* - when my DCs went to a rugby activity like this, I (and apparently all the other parents) took it entirely for granted that we stood on the sidelines for the entirety of the session. Kids were sent back regularly to parents for snacks, lacing up boots, water, etc and it was made quite clear when signing up for the activity and at the beginning of every session, parents were told to stand where their kids could see them, to have the snacks and water ready etc. Team talk at the end on the pitch, kids run back to parents. If my kid wandered off then I would have to take responsibility, not the coaches who only see my kid an hour a week in a crowd of a bunch of others playing british bulldog. They would also have no chance of making sure that my kid went back with the "right adult" - how could they, they don't know me at all, 1 hour a week on the sidelines. It's not like school, or a paid childcare setting.

I think there is a limit to the safeguarding expectations we as a society can put on volunteer run activities that meet infrequently. If these expectations become too onerous, then these activities will either become too expensive to run, or too risky for the volunteers. A reasonable balance for sports activities in public parks is to say that parents cannot drop and run, and must remain on site while a child is participating, while they are there the parent retains primary responsibility for the safeguarding of their child and isn't "handed over" to coaches for the duration of the activity.

Most children’s football activities run every week.

Fwiw, as someone who chairs a volunteer run and staffed playscheme, holiday club and after school club, I couldn’t disagree more with the point about volunteer lead activities.

Working with children should have a standard, and for good reason. It doesn’t matter if people are getting paid £100 an hour, £10 an hour, nothing hourly, or even being out of pocket. The standards expected of safeguarding should be exactly the same.

Otherwise corners will be cut, unsavoury characters would target volunteer lead groups and children’s welfare could be compromised.

Running an activity has a level of responsibility and if it can’t be met then it shouldn’t run. We shouldn’t compromise on safeguarding. Ever.

@Xiaoxiong - my dc did rugby for many years and this was exactly my experience - parents always stayed on the sidelines, even if it was just training rather than a match. If they couldn't they would ask another parent to be responsible for their child. It was a pain at times - we had other dc with activities elsewhere and could have really done with dropping and going - but would absolutely never have done that. It is very different to, say, a gymnastics club, or dance class - in that case parents are usually present and the coaches are responsible until parents collect their children.

@Xiaoxiong

FWIW I agree with you *@Bagamoyo1* - when my DCs went to a rugby activity like this, I (and apparently all the other parents) took it entirely for granted that we stood on the sidelines for the entirety of the session. Kids were sent back regularly to parents for snacks, lacing up boots, water, etc and it was made quite clear when signing up for the activity and at the beginning of every session, parents were told to stand where their kids could see them, to have the snacks and water ready etc. Team talk at the end on the pitch, kids run back to parents. If my kid wandered off then I would have to take responsibility, not the coaches who only see my kid an hour a week in a crowd of a bunch of others playing british bulldog. They would also have no chance of making sure that my kid went back with the "right adult" - how could they, they don't know me at all, 1 hour a week on the sidelines. It's not like school, or a paid childcare setting.

I think there is a limit to the safeguarding expectations we as a society can put on volunteer run activities that meet infrequently. If these expectations become too onerous, then these activities will either become too expensive to run, or too risky for the volunteers. A reasonable balance for sports activities in public parks is to say that parents cannot drop and run, and must remain on site while a child is participating, while they are there the parent retains primary responsibility for the safeguarding of their child and isn't "handed over" to coaches for the duration of the activity.

Yes, I completely agree. I feel the policy definitely needs tightening up without becoming too much for the Coaches and the volunteers. But this is a wake up call and definitely needs looking into. I was especially interested in the person who said their club keeps a register each week incase it needs to be handed over to the emergency services. Very important. I am actually a pretty laid back parent and not a helicopter parent who worries about all manner of eventualities happening but even to me there are too many loopholes for things going wrong.

There is no system. Even a simple headcount, pointing your parent out, parent having to come snd get the child whilst they sit/ stand with the coach is a very quick and simple way of doing it. They are with their coaches in their smaller groups anyway for the pep talk at the end. This would take minutes to do and be much better child protection rather than them all running off. It's a good way to informally and quickly get to know who's who and takes the responsibility of hand over off the coaches. I have seen this done in a number of childcare settings without needing more formal procedures.

It seems that these kind of things are very much set by the individual local team. So reluctantly I have emailed the local child protection officer to ask her the same questions and have tried to voice my concerns without dropping the club in it or mentioning the incident. I have asked that my name is not passed on to anyone and have asked her to confirm this in writing.

See what she says.

Ps- to clarify I was wrong about the DBS/CRB my DH has got one, as have all the coaches.

*Most children’s football activities run every week that’s not infrequently

Running an activity has a level of responsibility and if it can’t be met then it shouldn’t run

All I'm saying is that the level of the responsibility borne by the activity organisers should be lower if parents are present for the duration with eyes on their kids. The same level cannot be expected to apply to a primary school where parents are not there, and football tots in the park where parents are there.

I'm not saying the OP's club shouldn't do anything differently, they obviously need to crack down and say explicitly to all parents "no drop and run allowed, parents must remain present for the whole session."

@Xiaoxiong

Running an activity has a level of responsibility and if it can’t be met then it shouldn’t run

All I'm saying is that the level of the responsibility borne by the activity organisers should be lower if parents are present for the duration with eyes on their kids. The same level cannot be expected to apply to a primary school where parents are not there, and football tots in the park where parents are there.

I'm not saying the OP's club shouldn't do anything differently, they obviously need to crack down and say explicitly to all parents "no drop and run allowed, parents must remain present for the whole session."

I don’t disagree. I was disagreeing with your suggestion that there should be less expectation of leaders or organisers who are volunteers.

The activity is the key - not the payment status of the adults in charge.