Child safeguarding- who is right?

[sparkycats]

Who is right in this situation?

My DH is one of the coaches for a children's sports team which DS attends. The coaches are all volunteers giving up there own time to coach the teams which all their dcs attend along with other dcs. It's busy up at the venue with lots of other teams playing of all different ages with matches against away teams too with other parents and dcs.

On the coaches group they get a message from a disgruntled parent saying that her DH arrived to pick her child up at the venue afterwards and no-one was there, they were worried about where their dc was and when they went home they found their dc9 had walked home alone. The dc had said everyone left and he was all alone so decided to walk home.

Discussions happen on the group and it turns out several of the coaches were still there 20 minutes after pick up time, and had not seen this child. More coaches comment that they saw this child on their way out at the end when coaches etc were all still around. They stopped him and asked if he was ok, he said he was, they assumed he was allowed to walk home alone. Turns out he had been dropped off unattended and the parents were late to collect.

The club is very lax on safeguarding, parents aren't told implicitly that they have to stay but all other parents do. There is no sign in/sign out procedure. Coaches keep an eye out for the kids during/after the matches as much as they can. But it's not an official club, it's run totally by volunteers and payment for membership is paid annually.

This parent/ child has form.

Who is right?

@Meandthesky

Club and coaches need urgent safeguarding training and to put proper procedures in place to prevent this happening again

I volunteer in a childrens activity group and all leaders are required to have safe guarding training. We make sure all children are collected before we leave unless we’ve been told by the parent that they’re happy for their child to walk home alone. We’ve occassionally walked a child home ourselves (2 adults present) if the child says they’re allowed but we haven’t heard it from the parent.

Being volunteers is no excuse. If they want all parents to stay and be responsible for their own kids then they need to make that explicit to all parents. If they allow parents to leave then they’re responsible for those kids and need to make sure they’re handed back to a parent at the end even if that means staying late. If they don’t want that responsibility then they shouldn’t be running a kids activity.

It’s super annoying when parents are late. Especially as it’s frequently the same ones repeatedly. And child shouldn’t have lied. But that doesn’t mean it’s not the coaches responsibility

Is it possible for a child to slip away unnoticed? That's what happened here. He wasn't left on the pitch alone.

@sparkycats

I want to contact the safeguarding person about this and ask what the procedures are. However, I don't want them to know my personal details and I can't complete the email form without putting an email address in. Surely this alone shouldn't be the case. What if I was calling a coach out for something more sinister.

On a practical level, you could create a separate email address for this purpose without too much difficulty.

I am not sure why you do not want them to know your email address. If you want something to be done about the problem but don't want to get involved beyond flagging it, or fear retaliation, you could discuss the situation with the safeguarding lead for the FA in your local area to which the club are affiliated.

And ensuring that your DC know what to do is good parenting, but in no way absolves an adult of responsibility. The child is 9,he is not responsible for keeping himself safe in this situation, the adults around him are, and specifically the club in this case.
Do not put the blame on a child for not doing what your child would do.

If something had happened to him, would you have blamed him?????

@LIZS

They should not allow a child to leave alone without written permission from parent. Definitely a safeguarding issue and the club should review using a register. Being run by volunteers makes no difference.

Agree with this actually

Parent is being unreasonable in the sense they were late but you say parents arent told they have to stay and that safeguarding is lax. It shouldn't be. Just because you're all volunteers doesn't mean you shouldn't, when working with children, have appropriate safeguarding procedures, DBS checks, ensure you either tell all parents they have to stay and turn child away with parent if they arent being accompanied all session or else stay with the child until collected etc. You should also obviously have sign in sheets because you're responsible for children when with you.

Both

is it possible for a child to slip away unnoticed? That's what happened here. He wasn't left on the pitch alone.

No it didn't OP, you said a coach saw him and spoke to him. He was in no way unnoticed.

@JustLyra

It turns out it is a much bigger club than I thought. They are part of the FA. They have several safeguarding/photography/coaches conduct documentation on their website. Some of which were sent to parents as part of the contract we had to sign. I can see nothing on any document about sign in/out procedures or parents staying to supervise.

You know those appallingly run clubs that you hear about - the ones that ignore safeguarding, put children in danger and think that everything is ok because Steve is a nice guy and Bobby once put a plaster on someone so first aid is sorted and no-one can work out how it all went so wrong? This is one of those clubs.

People are breaking rules and cutting corners left right and centre. When that happens risks are magnified so much for someone unsavoury to slip through the net (including financially so - how lax are their accounting procedures? A local boys club years ago had zero paperwork and in the end they reckoned the treasurer took around £8k over a couple of years).

My child is 9 also and I questioned him on what he would have done in this situation and he was shocked when I mentioned that he should not try and walk home. Like that was a given. He knew exactly what to do if we weren't there and offered sensible and safe decisions.

The reason policies are needed though is because children are unpredictable.

How many times in his life have you said “I can’t believe he did that!”? Many I bet. Probably over little things. But kids sometimes do “I can’t believe they did that!” over big things. Especially when it’s unexpected big things - we all know how we’d expect our kids to react in that situation, but if they’ve never been in it we don’t actually know how they’d react.

Did he leave because he’s a naughty child and just thought “fuck it”?
Or did he leave because he thought “mum/dad will be here soon so I’ll just meet them part way down the path and then they’ll not get in trouble from coaches”?
Or did he leave because the remaining adults weren’t ones he felt he could talk to? Or did he leave because he was embarrassed that his parents were late and he didn’t want to admit that?

Given the kind of child he is I would say #1. The child and his parents have had to be talked to several times about the child's conduct during the sessions.

It’s always theoretically possible for a child to slip away unnoticed unless you have an adult positioned on every exit - and obviously outside that’s much easier.

At the playscheme I ran we took measures to prevent it, but it could possibly have happened if a child was determined to do it. Just as it could happen in a school if a kid really wanted to.
Having policies and procedures just makes it much less likely, and much more likely to be noticed quickly.

And you are STILL blaming the child. Stop this. Adults are adults and need to take responsibility. The child is 9. I think the more you post the more your dreadfull attitude shows itself.

Given the kind of child he is I would say #1. The child and his parents have had to be talked to several times about the child's conduct during the sessions

That’s an assumption you’re making.

If he’d already been in trouble himself I could easily see a 9 year old thinking “shit, now coaches are going to be pissed off at Dad/Mum too”.

Assumptions like that let the club off the hook.

I mean - have the club ever actually told the children not to leave alone? Given they don’t actually have a written policy about parents staying? From what you’ve said I bet not…

Why did the coaches not call the parents to check if he had permission to walk on his own.?

“ Given the kind of child he is I would say #1. The child and his parents have had to be talked to several times about the child's conduct during the sessions.”

OP you keep bringing this up like it matters, it doesn’t. You’ve discovered that the club is not just ignorant of safeguarding procedures but seem to be actively ignoring policies they should be following from the wider organisation. The child being badly behaved sometimes doesn’t mitigate that at all.

Sorry I must not have made it clear. I wasn't there and neither was DH, but our understanding is that he slipped away unnoticed to start with at the end of the game. Coaches assumed he had gone with his parents.

Then unbeknownst to the coaches two parents said that they saw him walking home alone on their way out. They stopped the car to ask if he was ok, he said he was and they thought he had been given permission to walk home alone by his parents. In fairness if that had been me I would have offered him a lift home or questioned that more. But the parents are pretty lax so it is probably feasible he was allowed to walk home alone.

The coaches only found this out on the Coaches group after the child's parent had complained to the head coach and asked about safeguarding via email/message. Other coaches then said they were still on the pitch 15/20 minutes after the end. The parents were so late when they turned up everyone had left the site. Despite two coaches saying they hung around 15/20 minutes after the end time.

We'd never let a child of that age leave the children's choir I volunteer at without clear, written permission from a parent. Even then I'd be concerned about it. Currently our COVID risk assessment and venue doesn't make having parents collect from the door so we have to send the children round to the car park a short walk away. They are escorted by a DBS-checked volunteer even for that short walk.

Also, I do think it is the responsibility to keep track of all the children in their care. I don't think it is good enough to plead ignorance of this child's whereabouts.

@Birdkin

“ Given the kind of child he is I would say #1. The child and his parents have had to be talked to several times about the child's conduct during the sessions.”

OP you keep bringing this up like it matters, it doesn’t. You’ve discovered that the club is not just ignorant of safeguarding procedures but seem to be actively ignoring policies they should be following from the wider organisation. The child being badly behaved sometimes doesn’t mitigate that at all.

I know that. Someone asked why the child wondered off home alone. I answered.

@Eleganz

We'd never let a child of that age leave the children's choir I volunteer at without clear, written permission from a parent. Even then I'd be concerned about it. Currently our COVID risk assessment and venue doesn't make having parents collect from the door so we have to send the children round to the car park a short walk away. They are escorted by a DBS-checked volunteer even for that short walk.

But they didn't. They thought he had left with a parent. No way would they have let him walk home alone if they had known that's what he was doing.

You would have offered the child a lift home? Then what when you got there and parents were not in? Taken him to your house,where a trusted coach lives?

This could so easily be mistaken for grooming.
Surley you would stay with the child at the venue and wait for parents, or call coach to contact them?
You and OH just need to be more aware of safeguarding when he is in a position of authority.

Nothing absolves the club of its Safeguarding responsibilities. No matter what history there is with this child or their parents. The coaches need to own up to their mistake and swiftly put in place measures and training to avoid a recurrence.

@Whichcatthatcat

You would have offered the child a lift home? Then what when you got there and parents were not in? Taken him to your house,where a trusted coach lives?

This could so easily be mistaken for grooming.
Surley you would stay with the child at the venue and wait for parents, or call coach to contact them?
You and OH just need to be more aware of safeguarding when he is in a position of authority.

Mmmm, yes probably a better bet doing what you said.

We know the child and parents very well as their child is in the same class as my child. We see them at several sporting events within school and outside of school and my child has been to their house for many play dates. If no one had been at home I would have contacted the parent and waited until they arrived or asked if I should take him to our house.

On a side note and I know not relevant. But I have never met anyone like the mum. She is an extraordinary character. She manages to upset/annoy people regularly where ever she goes. Both at school and at these events outside of school and even at kids parties. You aren't dealing with your average person here. Which makes it trickier. I know this doesn't take away the issue with the club before anyone says that.

The coaches at the club should know where the kids are at all times, and should hand the child over to a known adult at the end of the session. Parents staying to watch is irrelevant really, if they haven’t mandated that all parents need to stay and supervise their child it’s reasonable to expect parents will drop off and pick up.

The parent was late, which isn’t great but does happen - even the most organised parent can have car problems etc, is there a way to contact the club in the event of an emergency so someone knows the parent is running late?

I’d be very unhappy if someone didn’t know where my child was, much less that they’d let him leave without an adult present, much less that no one knew he’d left without an adult present. The behaviour of the child is irrelevant here too - if the coaches know there are issues they’re doubly in need to proper processes to ensure the child’s safety.

We know the child and parents very well as their child is in the same class as my child. We see them at several sporting events within school and outside of school and my child has been to their house for many play dates.

This is why your DH is in such a vulnerable position being a coach and basics like DBS checks not being done.

Whilst they don’t prevent accusations or problems being in a situation where he’s building relationships with children without following proper procedures will make people say “Why not?” if anything ever got said.

Mud sticks. We had an incident at our playscheme fifteen years ago where a parent helper on a trip smacked their own child when the child was disgustingly rude to another helper. Obviously witnessing it who didn’t know the child or adult just saw one of our helpers hit a child. It caused a world of grief for everyone.

Even now, all these years later, when it’s common knowledge that it was a parent smacking their child. When it’s common knowledge that this is one of the reasons parent helpers with us don’t get to be in a group with their own child. And even after numerous Ofsted inspections that have been as good as they can be there are still people who don’t send their kid because they remember that incident. Mud really sticks.

The parent being extraordinarily annoying is actually a blessing in this case. Sounds like she is the type not to let the club shrug off their failings (even if she ignores her own) and that sounds like it’s needed with such a shambolic set up.

I'm going with responsibility for the group/ coaches.

They need an intro pack that details what is expected of attendees , parents and the coaches.

Where the child go have gone missing, both sides fingerpointing and saying 'I thought you were watching them' isn't going to help.

The communication and record keeping just needs to be miles better.

Designated Safeguarding Lead here. Stuff like this really worries me. The notion that adults running a children's club or activity don't need to have Safeguarding Training or basic signing in/out procedures in place because they're "volunteers" and it's "informal" is a very dangerous one. Blaming the parents for being late, or blaming the child because of their past "conduct" is simply not go to cut it as a defence if anyone comes to harm.

Fortunately, the child did not come to any harm on this occasion but this is what we call a 'near miss' and it needs to be acted upon. The club needs to close until all the adults involved have had basic safeguarding training and there is a clear process in place around registering the DC and having them sign in/out with a trusted adult and this is communicated to all parents/carers. If the adults running the club aren't prepared to do these things then they shouldn't be volunteering to work with DC.

It sounds like the club is being run in the way parents/grandparents experienced as kids themselves in 60s/70s/80s, in those days kids would arrive/ leave under their own steam. Unfortunately now the expectation is entirely different and younger parents are used to overseeing kids activities the odd one will buck 'rules' written or implied. Whilst the fact most parents stay gets round the safeguarding the club is leaving itself open to litigation if little Johnny gets hurt.