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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think you can't be 'Pro choice' if you agree in mandate vaccinations?

362 replies

secular39 · 22/01/2022 15:13

There. I said it.

OP posts:
Awalkintime · 23/01/2022 00:19

How can you even compare a choice of having a vaccine to rape? Just wow!!

RoomOfRequirement · 23/01/2022 00:22

It is not coercion or blackmail, Grow up.

Actions have consequences. You are perfectly at liberty to make your own choices but you are not entitled to the job you hold, and you are not entitled to do whatever you want with no consequences.

OhWhyNot · 23/01/2022 00:23

Should colleagues have to cover for those unvaccinated who have to once again self isolate (10 days still for them regardless of results)

Should colleagues have to risk asses not only patients but unvaccinated staff too because that is what is happening now

Few I know have an exemption. You can apply to another GP as we call can (you should know this) and its been talked about for months NHS staff were told In November

It’s based on risk. We are there to treat/care/support patients with as little risk as possible. Unvaccinated staff increase risk

RoomOfRequirement · 23/01/2022 00:23

@Awalkintime

How can you even compare a choice of having a vaccine to rape? Just wow!!
Absolutely this! You are disgusting @secular39

I hope they do fire you.

Original poster
secular39 · 23/01/2022 00:24

@Awalkintime

You have a choice - 2 options. You don't like them. Why sign up for a job where vaccination is expected and then complain about that very expectation and label it as coercive?

Don't sign on the dotted line in the first place. Or were you blackmailed into that too?

Like I've said in previous posts.

We are not hounded by Occupational Health to receive vaccinations. If we don't want then, they don't bother.

Our managers do not send out weekly emails for us to receive our required vaccinations nor are we threatened with our jobs. I can tell you now that there a few vaccinations that I'm overdue and no one gives a shit.

Nhs workers primarily get vaccinations to protect us from the patients under our care not the other way round.

OP posts:
Original poster
secular39 · 23/01/2022 00:27

@Awalkintime

How can you even compare a choice of having a vaccine to rape? Just wow!!
I did not compare vaccines to rape. Stop trying to start something that isn't there. I was primarily stating the most common examples of blackmail.
OP posts:
Awalkintime · 23/01/2022 00:30

It is for both purposes protection for you and for the other way around. However, you still had them and signed up to that very contract.

Yes you did, you said about having sex with me right or I will leave - that is rape. You compared it to rape.

Awalkintime · 23/01/2022 00:32

You still haven't answered my question about what you do with an unconscious patient? How do you maintain autonomy when they are unresponsive?

Original poster
secular39 · 23/01/2022 00:34

@Awalkintime

It is for both purposes protection for you and for the other way around. However, you still had them and signed up to that very contract.

Yes you did, you said about having sex with me right or I will leave - that is rape. You compared it to rape.

I stated other examples of blackmail. Stop getting excited and start something that isn't there. Not going to bother to entertain you,
OP posts:
youvegottenminuteslynn · 23/01/2022 00:34

@secular39

You can still have the vaccine and pass on Covid....

You can still have the vaccine and have Covid....

You can choose to get an abortion and you will not make someone else pregnant...

You can choose not to get an abortion and you will not get someone else pregnant...

So as you've displayed in this example - the two are not comparable as one affects the body of only the decision maker whereas the other has the potential to affect the body of lots of other people.

youvegottenminuteslynn · 23/01/2022 00:37

To be clear, I am - I think - uncomfortable with mandatory vaccinations.

I am not uncomfortable with preventing people who have not had certain vaccinations from being in certain situations where the others involved have no choice and would be at increased risk.

I can believe that at the same time as being pro-choice. Indeed, I think both positions have the protection of the vulnerable at heart.

I can also believe that at the same time as recognising the vaccine is not 100% effective.

Well said.

Awalkintime · 23/01/2022 00:37

Because you know you compared your work contract expectations to being raped. Also it is a handy time to say you're not engaging when I ask that difficult question you've ignored multiple times.

Original poster
secular39 · 23/01/2022 00:37

@Awalkintime

You still haven't answered my question about what you do with an unconscious patient? How do you maintain autonomy when they are unresponsive?
That's a stupid question. I am not unconscious. If I was, I would hope that my family and the people who are treating me under their care would make the best decision for me.
OP posts:
Original poster
secular39 · 23/01/2022 00:37

@Awalkintime

Because you know you compared your work contract expectations to being raped. Also it is a handy time to say you're not engaging when I ask that difficult question you've ignored multiple times.
I don't answer stupid questions.
OP posts:
Awalkintime · 23/01/2022 00:39

secular39
But you said there were no exceptions so surely that includes unconscious people? Or now are there exceptions because you have ignored autonomy yourself by treating someone without their consent.

Awalkintime · 23/01/2022 00:40

No you just make stupid comparisons instead.

Silverswirl · 23/01/2022 00:41

@3scape

*mandatory. Being anti Vax though.... That's not the same is it. So tired of this bs. If you can get vaccinated and have a sense of responsibility towards your community/ society then you do and have done. It's fairly straightforward. If you can't you can't. , No big deal. It's the chunk of society that don't wish to support the needs of others who won't get vaccinated that means, unfortunately, this is becoming a situation of coercion. It wouldn't be necessary if enough people hadn't been allowed to spread the lies. Where I live are a HUGE number of anti vaxxers and from the local forum it's clear they think killing off the vulnerable is humanities best hope. Depressing. There you have it. The bodily autonomy bunch are apparently modern eugenicists. Hmm
How strange. I’m anti abortion (not pro choice) but very pro choice of the vaccine. So totally reversal so most on here.
Original poster
secular39 · 23/01/2022 00:46

@Awalkintime

secular39 But you said there were no exceptions so surely that includes unconscious people? Or now are there exceptions because you have ignored autonomy yourself by treating someone without their consent.
Sigh.

If it was a life and death situation and my family knew of my wishes prior to my unconscious state and the advice and expertise of the doctors, I would hope they will make the best decisions on my behalf.

Same about dead relatives/friends having conditions over funeral arrangements.

OP posts:
JustLyra · 23/01/2022 00:59

I stated other examples of blackmail. Stop getting excited and start something that isn't there. Not going to bother to entertain you,

The poster is right though - sex by coercion is rape and you were the one who made that connection.

Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 23/01/2022 01:02

I don't think your analogy is a good one. A better one would be that if you are pro-choice re vaccines, does that mean you think manslaughter is OK as long as you didn't actually plan it?

Beowulfthethird · 23/01/2022 01:02

I can tell you now that there a few vaccinations that I'm overdue and no one gives a shit.

That's not true. They do give a shit and they've been trying to work out how to get NHS workers to stay up to date with their jabs for years because they're aware of how it's affecting patient outcomes.

MyDcAreMarvel · 23/01/2022 02:46

I don't think your analogy is a good one. A better one would be that if you are pro-choice re vaccines, does that mean you think manslaughter is OK as long as you didn't actually plan it?
Yes that’s a far better analogy.

SerialNo · 23/01/2022 02:59

I don't think your analogy is a good one. A better one would be that if you are pro-choice re vaccines, does that mean you think manslaughter is OK as long as you didn't actually plan it?
I’d go for comparisons to seatbelt.

“If you are pro-choice re vaccines, shouldn’t you also be pro-choice re. wearing a seatbelt?”

After all, making it illegal for me to choose not to wear a seatbelt impedes my bodily autonomy (even if it makes me and other people safer).

Theunamedcat · 23/01/2022 03:00

You talk about having your family around you do realise that's rare right now don't you? And it's going to be even more rare when we don't have the staff to run around trying to track a relative down

milkyaqua · 23/01/2022 04:15

@secular39

There. I said it.
That's all right. There are lots of people making themselves known as dumbdumbs these days.