Youngest Daughter in bits on phone - advice please

[Icecreamlover63]

My Youngest Daughter has just been on the phone and is extremely upset. I have seen this coming for some time but i cannot say anything about peoples relationships however i would appreciate some advice.
In 2019 my daughter was engaged and found out that her then fiancée had spent £3 on gambling in six months. He promised he would not do this again was so very repentant and she forgave hi.
In very early 2020 they got married. They moved into military housing about 8 miles away and appeared very happy.
Then they got transferred to Wiltshire and my daughter got a job at a local hospital and promptly made lots of friends and loved her new job. She joined a gym and lost some weight and was looking amazing.
Her husband's, Mother came over in October 2021 and was furious as she had just had a phone call completely out of the blue. It was the bank informing her that her sons account was overdrawn by £600. (when her son went to Afghanistan she had to have access to his accounts in case he died) and she had forgotten all about it.
The account was overdrawn because of 2 large bets of £500 each.
My daughter again lost her temper and he promised never to do it again.
Just before Christmas he took £500 out of their joint account to pay his friend as apparently he had bailiffs at the door. Then he took another £250 out a one of his friends could not see his children. My daughter said can you give those two friends the account number for our joint account so they can pay it back into the account it came out of. Guess what he said he wouldn't and said they money was going back into his sole account.
He has not spoken to my daughter most evenings and only watches football on sky. He refuses to go out at all in January and has ben very rude to her on lots of occasions.
Basically she has had enough of the gambling and the lies and just basically being ignored.

Fast forward to today!! She has just gone back to collect some of her bits and he started screaming at her and saying she was sneaky moving half of the money into her savings account before she had even spoken to him. She moved it this morning as she did not want him to be reckless and bet it away. He then started to blame her for having mental health problems and that when she was at home she was unhappy (not true) and that he had to speak to welfare in the Army to get married quarters early. They got their married quarters 3 weeks before they got married (which is the normal time line).
He has told her she always runs back to London when she is upset. Again not true she has been to us 4 times in 4 months and two of those times he was with her.

She is so upset and so distraught I honestly don't know what to do and she is driving back home now. I wish i could say she was right but I feel it would be wrong for me to say so. Please can you advise me what to do and also if you think she has made the right decision.
I do understand there is 2 sides to the story but my daughter has moved half way across the country and has not lied, she is devestated.

God I wish my mother had been fighting in my corner when I was being treated like shit in my marriage.

But she 'didn't want to interfere', and she 'loved him too', and 'there's
2 sides to every story' and a million other non committal platitudes.

I felt so unsupported and was constantly second guessing myself, it led to me staying and enduring years more misery than I should have.

Honestly OP, don't be afraid to pick a side.

Every post you make he sounds worse and worse.

How dare he abandon your daughter scared and with no way of getting back.

Forget his “addiction” - that’s a red herring - he’s an emotional violent man abusing your DD at every turn.

wrote a note saying Al he ever wanted was kids with her.

Manipulative bollocks - just a few days ago he was stonewalling her for weeks in end - that’s not the behaviour of someone looking forward to co parenting with someone.,

I felt so unsupported and was constantly second guessing myself, it led to me staying and enduring years more misery than I should have.

Women are talked into wasting decades of their lives in this well-meaning but harmful way. Years when they could have been pursuing a very different life.

She wants him to get back to his old self and kick this addiction she said how hard it must be. He has started well and is having two GA sessions a week and two counselling sessions through his work a week.

There is no “old-self” - that was just a mask to deceive her. The mask has slipped.

She should not be hankering after the detail of what sessions he has done in some futile magical thinking fantasy hope……

He has YEARS of deep therapy and unraveling to do - if that even works.

Listen to the people at the other end of this journey - as PP have said - go with her to GA for partners on get on an online forum just to see the mess and pain.

She needs NC so that she cannot be hoovered back in - she is v vulnerable

If he's doing this to get her back it will never 'stick'. Once he has her he'll be back to gambling. Maybe not the next day, but he will in time.

He has to quit for himself regardless of whether she goes or stays. And that is not what he's doing.

But either way sounds as if DD is just done, done, done. And I don't blame her. There is just a point of no return no matter how the other party may try to 'make it up' to us. And I think she's reached that point.

@ESGdance

She wants him to get back to his old self and kick this addiction she said how hard it must be. He has started well and is having two GA sessions a week and two counselling sessions through his work a week.

There is no “old-self” - that was just a mask to deceive her. The mask has slipped.

She should not be hankering after the detail of what sessions he has done in some futile magical thinking fantasy hope……

He has YEARS of deep therapy and unraveling to do - if that even works.

Listen to the people at the other end of this journey - as PP have said - go with her to GA for partners on get on an online forum just to see the mess and pain.

She needs NC so that she cannot be hoovered back in - she is v vulnerable

Yes I think you and your daughter's focus should be on counselling and support for HER rather than worrying about what he's doing.

I do agree with you but she said to me that as his gambling was the start of this it would be good if he could stop it.
I have approached her about going to see someone to talk to but she is not interested.

I'd like to say my husband is a former gambler but tbh he is a gambler that hasn't gambled is a very long time. I have been where your daughter is now. The lies, the excuses, the gaslighting to make you think it's your fault. The sheer panic when you realise funds you thought were there are gone. The sick feeling when you know you're being lied to. The personality change the argumentative nature and often nasty and sometimes starting arguments for no reason. None of this changed in the slightest for us until the shit hit the fan and our rent money was gambled away this was my husbands rock bottom. He gambled the rent money won it back and gambled it away again. This was when he admitted there was a problem to himself and me. Until an addict admits that this is never going to change. We tackled this together with both sets of parents. I arranged for him to go to gamblers anonymous. I arranged counselling. I bought him a basic phone to uses with no access to apps. All his cards were cut up and he had and still has no access to money or cash. We are years down the line and this works for us. If he has nights out with friends I give him enough for his night and his friends know the situation. I leave 20 in his car somewhere he doesn't know in case he runs low on fuel. I change pins on cards every so often.I often feel bad if he asks for money but this works for us as I don't want him to feel emasculated. But I have to give credit he is like a different person now and will admit that finally opening up was a huge relief for him. If your sil is a good person open and receptive to change there is help out there.

Ahh jeez - that line about just wanting to have kids with her is another MASSIVE red flag. HUUUUGE.

What he wanted was to have that link to tie her to him forever - not because he wanted to co-parent!

She has to make doubly, triply sure that she does NOT fall pregnant to this utter loser in the next few weeks. I sincerely hope she isn't even seeing him but she can't weaken!

And I agree with the posters raging about him asking her to lie to the military - really fucking bad plan on his part! If she knows his CO, she might be best off dropping them a line to let them know that she's leaving him - not sure of the exact protocol here, but she must NOT collude in his lies.

@Icecreamlover63

I do agree with you but she said to me that as his gambling was the start of this it would be good if he could stop it. I have approached her about going to see someone to talk to but she is not interested.

Make no mistake IceCream - he didn't become abusive because of his gambling. He abused DD because he is an abuser. An Angry & Controlling Man (see link to book upthread).

& PP who said to remove focus from HIS therapy & how "well" (FFS! after 4 sessions?!) he is doing is absolutely right. The only therapy DD needs to engage with is her own.

That's a lovely idea about the family gym membership btw :)
How does DD feel about the possibility of coming home earlier? Could she talk to HR, a welfare officer or union rep, let them know she needs to remove herself from an abusive husband, & ask to be let go ahead of full notice?

So her hospital will let her know tomorrow if they can reduce her notice period by 4 weeks if that’s the case she only has 3 weeks left.
He went to his first face to face meeting last night. The rest were by phone call and she heard him on the phone to them.

He was extremely quiet when he came back last night. Hardly said a word. She asked him how it went and he said ok. Then said there was a man who gambled so much he and his wife had to remortgage their home. But they stayed together.

From what DD said he looked shocked so I’m not sure what the other people said. It’s so different having initial calls with counsellors to actually seeing people face to face. But if he wants to succeed this is his life now.

She has to sort a few bits out today so she is busy which is good

Then said there was a man who gambled so much he and his wife had to remortgage their home. But they stayed together.

This is manipulative AF!!!!

As predicted by so many PP - he is already weaponising the therapeutic process.

OP,

You sound like such a kind measured woman but kindly meant, be very careful.

You loved a phantom.
You do NOT know this man.

He is hugely damaged and dangerous.

He is liar.
He is a thief.
He is an arch manipulator of your daughter, you and his parents.

NOTHING from his mouth should be believed.

His is an angry abusive man.

Leaving her somewhere so that she was scared is not normal, it is abusive.
Completely separate to his gambling.

You need to put aside your love for this ghost and start focusing on the lying toad your daughter married.

He'd love kids.
Selfish twat.
Of course he would.
Tie your daughter to him and leave her in periodic poverty.

OP, I would also start thinking about the future YOU want.

The next 30 years are going to be miserable for you if she is with him.

You need to pick a side and make it clear to her how wrong he has been in his treatment of her.

That he isn't a man that can be EVER trusted.

That to bring children into a marriage with a lying thieving abusive man would be the height of stupidity.

She needs to go to GA for families to hear the full truth of what life is like with a gambler.

She is beyond lucky that she has found out now.

That he would involve her in fraud tells you EXACTLY the type of character he is.

He would knowingly drag her down with him.

If she wants a really hard, miserable life, looking over her shoulder, afraid of the post, her phone ringing, the knock on the door from people chasing money, you tell her go right ahead and have further dealings with him.

As for him doing some sessions and he'll be ok after a few months?

Preposterous.

Recovery involves hard work for years.
Years where the addict is 100% focused on THEIR recovery.

EVERYTHING is about THEIR recovery.

Not someone to be in a relationship at all.

The bottom line is, you need to tell your daughter in clear unambiguous language that having anything further to do with this man will be throwing her life away, and you want her to be clear with her, that that is what she will be doing.

If she refuses to go to the GA families because she doesn't want to know, that is denial.

Support her OP, but don't try and fix this.

She is a married woman, and adult.

Treat her like an adult that needs straight talking to.

Talk to her so that she knows she is making decisions that will influence the rest of her life and she needs to own that.

Her choices will ultimately be on her.

Kind, but tough love is required IMO.

Agree with everyone. She needs to divorce as soon as possible even if it's just for financial purposes. She is doing the right thing.

@billy1966

OP,

You sound like such a kind measured woman but kindly meant, be very careful.

You loved a phantom.
You do NOT know this man.

He is hugely damaged and dangerous.

He is liar.
He is a thief.
He is an arch manipulator of your daughter, you and his parents.

NOTHING from his mouth should be believed.

His is an angry abusive man.

Leaving her somewhere so that she was scared is not normal, it is abusive.
Completely separate to his gambling.

You need to put aside your love for this ghost and start focusing on the lying toad your daughter married.

He'd love kids.
Selfish twat.
Of course he would.
Tie your daughter to him and leave her in periodic poverty.

OP, I would also start thinking about the future YOU want.

The next 30 years are going to be miserable for you if she is with him.

You need to pick a side and make it clear to her how wrong he has been in his treatment of her.

That he isn't a man that can be EVER trusted.

That to bring children into a marriage with a lying thieving abusive man would be the height of stupidity.

She needs to go to GA for families to hear the full truth of what life is like with a gambler.

She is beyond lucky that she has found out now.

That he would involve her in fraud tells you EXACTLY the type of character he is.

He would knowingly drag her down with him.

If she wants a really hard, miserable life, looking over her shoulder, afraid of the post, her phone ringing, the knock on the door from people chasing money, you tell her go right ahead and have further dealings with him.

As for him doing some sessions and he'll be ok after a few months?

Preposterous.

Recovery involves hard work for years.
Years where the addict is 100% focused on THEIR recovery.

EVERYTHING is about THEIR recovery.

Not someone to be in a relationship at all.

The bottom line is, you need to tell your daughter in clear unambiguous language that having anything further to do with this man will be throwing her life away, and you want her to be clear with her, that that is what she will be doing.

If she refuses to go to the GA families because she doesn't want to know, that is denial.

Support her OP, but don't try and fix this.

She is a married woman, and adult.

Treat her like an adult that needs straight talking to.

Talk to her so that she knows she is making decisions that will influence the rest of her life and she needs to own that.

Her choices will ultimately be on her.

Kind, but tough love is required IMO.

I agree with all you have said. She is strong, when he told her about the man who’s wife remortgaged the home, she said ‘more fool her’! Some of his family think she has bailed out and come back to us too quickly but I don’t think they have been told the full story. I personally don’t care what they think. They live 200 miles from us! I know some wife’s stick bu their husbands and aid and help their recovery but we only hear about the success stories after this week I am certain there must be more failures than successes because of the nature of the addiction. My SIL loves sport and watches lots of sky. In a couple of months time when she is not there and he is rattling around in an empty home I am sure it will start up again because every football match every horse race every cricket match he watches will have betting connections.
I really hope he has the resolve to carry on not gambling. As for my daughter she will be ok. Her friends and sisters have been nothing but supportive and they love her very much. She has booked a couple of holidays and even though there will be times she will miss him. I will swiftly remind her of why she left! I am completely overwhelmed by the advice and support I have been given on here.

I would be considering the hopes you have for him as unhelpful to you and your DD - this “hope” leaves you all vulnerable to his manipulations.

Slam the door hard shut. Do not concern yourself with his progress through life - don’t have any info coming in about him because it’s not relevant to your DD need to move on.

Every time you become preoccupied with hoping he will be OK - flick a switch to focus all of your hope for your DD to be able to disentangle herself from this mess and hope that her self esteem doesn’t take too much of a battering that she slides back to him. That’s more likely to happen down the line when the anger and drama dissipates and the loneliness and loss of future dreams she had set in - maybe around special dates / anniversaries etc.

Are they still living under the same roof? She needs zero contact and needs zero info about him and his family.

@ESGdance

I would be considering the hopes you have for him as unhelpful to you and your DD - this “hope” leaves you all vulnerable to his manipulations.

Slam the door hard shut. Do not concern yourself with his progress through life - don’t have any info coming in about him because it’s not relevant to your DD need to move on.

Every time you become preoccupied with hoping he will be OK - flick a switch to focus all of your hope for your DD to be able to disentangle herself from this mess and hope that her self esteem doesn’t take too much of a battering that she slides back to him. That’s more likely to happen down the line when the anger and drama dissipates and the loneliness and loss of future dreams she had set in - maybe around special dates / anniversaries etc.

Are they still living under the same roof? She needs zero contact and needs zero info about him and his family.

She will be leaving the army house in 6 weeks time. She says he has been very kind and is be pro-active by sorting out nils /accounts etc. We had a very productive conversation and she just cried. She said she feels like ‘mush’ she said ge wanted kids but in the last two years they probably only had sec about 15 times. She said she just feels like her life has been drained. As a mum this is hard to hear. He has gone back to his mums this weekend. He said every time he feels the urge to bet he transfers £30 to his mum to stop himself! My Daughter said why couldn’t he do that for her she feels she wasn’t enough she feels so upset 😭 I’m going to talk to her later on as she is going to the gym. She said the gym was her only escape she said every night she used to come in and he would tell her to shush when he was watching football. She said they never argued there was just nothing. I was honest and asked why didn’t she say this before why didn’t she sit down with him. She said she was worried in case he over reacted.
I will just listen this afternoon as I think this all needs to come out. The last heartbreaking thing she said was will I ever be good enough for anyone. As I type these words I have tears rolling down my face I am so so sad.

That’s what abusive me do.

They silence you and make you live a life walking on eggs shells by their threatened anger and volatility - they don’t even have to get angry often because the constant worry of them flipping out keeps you hyper vigilant and on edge.

This no way to live - it’s exhausting, draining and demeaning. No wonder her self esteem is through the floor - how dare he “shush” her.

What a lonely and emotionally derelict marriage - silenced, subjugated, no warmth or intimacy.

Once you have come to terms with it I am sure you will see the bigger picture and find some relief that her life with him had not become more involved. She has lots of areas in her life that will support her resilience and recovery - her career, the gym, loving family and friends and of course you.

It will be tough for you to hold her pain - but know that this is an investment in a much much brighter future.

Him sending his Mum £30 alongside her having access to his accounts suggests to me that she has been involved and aware of his addiction for a very long time.

But concentrate on his abusive, cold and unloving behaviours - your lovely DD deserves so much more than this.

ESGdance - I feel so sad for her. Really sad for her. I just want her to be happy and someone to love her as much a I do. She is going to ring later and I’ll keep you updated.
It’s so hard being a mum and this suite and you lovely people replying is making a difficult time easier to cope with. Thank you

Bless her, her confidence has been badly knocked by this lowlife.

She really could do with some counselling herself, to help her see that none of this is about her and ALL of it is about him. His weakness, his failings, his behaviour, his abusiveness - all on HIM.

She might benefit from the Freedom Programme - can be done online - to help her break negative thought patterns that will undermine her confidence going forward. But most of all she needs to find herself again - remember who she was before she met him, and realise that she can be like that again (with added learning and wisdom).

Cry your tears OP, healthier out than in.

His efforts at recovery which I find suspect should be absolutely no concern of you or your daughter.

Silence is better.

I don't believe for a second his mother didn't know.

She will be very disappointed but not surprised at this relationship not surviving.

Part of the value of GA for families will be to help your daughter realise there was NEVER any chance of this relationship surviving or being healthy.

He has been in the grip of addiction probably for a longer time.

He was likely lying their whole relationship.

Any feelings he had for her will always have been secondary to feeding his addiction.

GA will help her resolve her feelings that this is on her, that somehow she wasn't enough.

It was never about her, he could have married anyone, his priority has been his addiction.

If she is open to hearing the stories of other people who are years and decades ahead of her, it will aid her healing.

The combination of GA and personal counselling will help accelerate her healing.

She is a young woman with her whole life ahead of her.

Also in time it would be great for her to recognise what she ignored that she knew wasn't right.

She can and will come out of this stronger and matured with all the wonderful support she has.

She is such a LUCKY woman.
She is NOT stuck.
She has OPTIONS.
Her bravery means she has a FUTURE.
She has a wonderful family and friends.

She is BLESSED.

Hopefully she will realise this in the not too distant future, that her EX was never going to be a long term relationship.

Quote: "Recovery involves hard work for years.
Years where the addict is 100% focused on THEIR recovery.

EVERYTHING is about THEIR recovery."

I have never looked at it that way but this is so true. Up to now, everything has been about THEIR habit of gambling: the fake break-in, the hiding money that has been discovered as gone from accounts (without knowledge of wins or losses going into his), the lies around the status of the Forces housing, the driving her out of her own house with cold and silent behaviour even in the face of all the rest of the above, FFS. So far, so dodgy.

However: keeping going as an emotional support human to this man would just turn the tables to a focus that is not all that different. Everything would have to be about THEIR recovery, and it doesn't mean that it promises a relaxed and trusting life/marriage even if it was going to plan, does it? It's already infiltrating her peace as if she's involved with how he has got on with GA....She has this and this only chance to break free of that, and no children that would make the break much longer in coming.

You are right, she's strong. She made friends and made the best of her move - she will do so again. Pulling the focus right away from him WILL work if it is given chance to. It's sometimes easier than you expect when out of the thick of it. Walk over the bridge.

She said she was worried in case he over reacted.

Everything that Billy said in her latest post is true OP.
You are imagining a ghost.
His mask has slipped.
We are out actions, not our words.

He is the man who left DD scared out of her wits & unable to get herself home.
He is the man she is too afraid to talk to in case he "over-reacts".

She should NOT being living with him now. Can she take up the friend who offered to put her up? As ESG said - she needs him out of her head, & NC so he can no longer manipulate, scare, lie to or steal from her.

DD will not be able to think straight, let alone make sound decisions or plan a new life, while she is still cohabiting with him. Support her by getting her to think about all the advantages of moving out & not having to navigate him for the next 6 weeks.

Thank you all again for your replies yesterday was a sad day. My Daughter is going to find out how much notice period she needs to give. She loves her job but she is a good nurse and will get another job easily. Well his mum phoned me again yesterday and said he is doing everything right he is going to GA he is seeing a counselling service with the army. What more can he do to help save his marriage.
I wasn’t rude I just pointed out that I’m not married to her son but my daughter is and maybe she should have this conversation with her. I totally understand she needs to talk I do too, but I think she is sad, angry all in one and at the end of the day he is her son. She said he had laid his soul bare and it’s the mark of a man and could my daughter at least talk to him on Monday. She sounded pretty desperate to be fair. I’ve told her she really doesn’t need to ask me at all. I think her whole future has been changed and she is going to find that hard to deal with. I think there will be lots of emotions over the next few weeks.
I fully expect on Monday he will be full of what people at home think of her. On the face of it she looks like she has been away for 6 months and come back at the first opportunity but they do not know the full story. I fully appreciate there are two side to very story and there are so many things I have felt uneasy about for the last two years how I wish I’d spoken up earlier how I wish I could get my husband to see what I saw my husband always had an excuse for him!
My eldest daughter said she does want to be with him it’s as simple as that! I agree with her but there will be lots of hurt and that’s a fact too.
I said to my eldest daughter the thing is - how do you believe a liar.
The fake break in
The friend who needed £500 and isn’t paying it back into their joint account
The man who has spent £4000 since July in bets
The man who spent £3000 in bets in 2019
The man who told her he stopped betting but used cash instead of a card
I’m not going to concern myself with arguments everybody has arguments but the above are facts and lies.