Youngest Daughter in bits on phone - advice please

[Icecreamlover63]

My Youngest Daughter has just been on the phone and is extremely upset. I have seen this coming for some time but i cannot say anything about peoples relationships however i would appreciate some advice.
In 2019 my daughter was engaged and found out that her then fiancée had spent £3 on gambling in six months. He promised he would not do this again was so very repentant and she forgave hi.
In very early 2020 they got married. They moved into military housing about 8 miles away and appeared very happy.
Then they got transferred to Wiltshire and my daughter got a job at a local hospital and promptly made lots of friends and loved her new job. She joined a gym and lost some weight and was looking amazing.
Her husband's, Mother came over in October 2021 and was furious as she had just had a phone call completely out of the blue. It was the bank informing her that her sons account was overdrawn by £600. (when her son went to Afghanistan she had to have access to his accounts in case he died) and she had forgotten all about it.
The account was overdrawn because of 2 large bets of £500 each.
My daughter again lost her temper and he promised never to do it again.
Just before Christmas he took £500 out of their joint account to pay his friend as apparently he had bailiffs at the door. Then he took another £250 out a one of his friends could not see his children. My daughter said can you give those two friends the account number for our joint account so they can pay it back into the account it came out of. Guess what he said he wouldn't and said they money was going back into his sole account.
He has not spoken to my daughter most evenings and only watches football on sky. He refuses to go out at all in January and has ben very rude to her on lots of occasions.
Basically she has had enough of the gambling and the lies and just basically being ignored.

Fast forward to today!! She has just gone back to collect some of her bits and he started screaming at her and saying she was sneaky moving half of the money into her savings account before she had even spoken to him. She moved it this morning as she did not want him to be reckless and bet it away. He then started to blame her for having mental health problems and that when she was at home she was unhappy (not true) and that he had to speak to welfare in the Army to get married quarters early. They got their married quarters 3 weeks before they got married (which is the normal time line).
He has told her she always runs back to London when she is upset. Again not true she has been to us 4 times in 4 months and two of those times he was with her.

She is so upset and so distraught I honestly don't know what to do and she is driving back home now. I wish i could say she was right but I feel it would be wrong for me to say so. Please can you advise me what to do and also if you think she has made the right decision.
I do understand there is 2 sides to the story but my daughter has moved half way across the country and has not lied, she is devestated.

@ESGdance

He felt he had no choice but to listen. But he is confused.

Of course he has a choice.
What is he confused about?

Is he really ignorant or does he not care about his daughter - because he has the long long list of repeated vile behaviour and this is acceptable to him?

I think he just felt sorry for him. I think SIL has suddenly realised what he had lost and is trying to claw it all back.
My DD is ringing me at 7 on her way home. I will always have my kids back always .
But it’s over a week since SIL kicked her out of the house. He had not text once to see where she was and if she is alright. He is only doing it now. 4 weeks ago DD was due to go to his parents house and he just said he wasn’t going! Just like that. SIL only has himself to blame . The chickens have come home to roost and he is full of remorse for himself more than anything else x

He's not full of remorse at all, and the only thing he cares about is losing access to your daughter's money. You have to realise this is not a nice man who made a mistake, this is a deeply manipulative abuser who has got you all thinking he is a poor unlucky chap.

It’s really important that your daughter contacts the co and makes it clear she does not want him posted close to her, for her own safety.

@ESGdance

*“I felt for him at that stage I really did. He has had such a horrible childhood pushed from pillar to post and many of you will understand this. GAMBLING COMPLETELY CHANGED HIM!”*

Do you feel so sorry for his toxic childhood that you are happy for your own daughter to have a horrible marriage and be pushed from pillar to post? And is this the childhood you want for your grandchildren?

No gambling didn’t change him. Who he is at his core is an emotionally violent misogynist who has systematically abused and degraded your daughter in every aspect of her life. His gambling is the least of her worries. That’s only money.

What you saw was the “fake” grooming behaviours in the early stage of the relationship.

I have put my foot down today. After a restless night I have made my DH block him. SIL has his own family a they can step up now. I have just been shown six months of texts by my Dd and there is not one affectionate text from SIL not one! My DD will be ok and she is surrounded by her family and friends. Everyone is here for her and I’ve told her she will be so much stronger because of this. I know she will have a good Future. But for my SIL I feel sadness for his addiction. I feel sorry for anyone with an addiction. More than that I feel sorry for anyone who lives with someone with an addiction. Everyone on here has been honest and thoughtful and I’ve tried to do the right thing which is very very hard. No one has judged me which I’m grateful for. Thank you

or move to a station nearer to our house so he can try to repair his marriage.

THAT IS NOT A DECISION THE CO SHOULD BE TRYING TO INFLUENCE.
The CO is not married to your SiL. He does not have to live with the consequences of his gambling & abusive behaviours. DD did. Everyone should butt the fuck out & stop trying to "fix" her marriage.

As to your 'kindhearted' DH - far from blocking SiL as advised, he has opened himself up to an hour-long phone call in which he has been expertly manipulated.
Even if 100% of what SiL has told him is true - so what? It is STILL ALL JUST WORDS. No doubt those words sound pretty. Now contrast them with SiL's ACTIONS.

I cannot believe DH is attempting to facilitate further discussion between SiL & DD.
Your poor child. She needs SPACE & TIME & not to have the CO & her own father engineering how she should be responding to her husband.

PP rightly mentioned Flying Monkeys upthread. She was right. Usually they come from the ranks of the narcissist's own 'team'. If your DH pushes DD to talk with SiL, to meet with him, or to accept his piteous bleating about how "well" he is doing - 3 weeks into several years-worth of gambling, recklessness, fraud, & abusing his wife, mark you - he is doing nothing but add extra pressure to DD. He needs to stop listening to SiL, start listening to his own child, & stop interfering.

SiL could stop gambling & stay stopped. Unlikely, but it might happen.
Does that excuse the way he has abused your daughter?
IceCream - you have fallen back into the comforting fallacy that SiL only abused DD because he accidentally became a gambler so couldn't help himself, poor love, & that if the gambling stops the abuse will stop.
It is bollocks.
He doesn't abuse, manipulate & control DD because he is a gambler.
He does it because he is an abuser.

My DH said he would talk to our DD tonight (she is not talking to SIL ).
DD has more sense than her dad then.

What do we do?
YOU STOP DOING SiL'S BIDDING & YOU STOP ACTING AS HIS FLYING MONKEYS FFS.

He felt he had no choice but to listen.

He needs to wake the fuck up.
He's a grown man who knows how the 'off' switch works on a phone. Knows how to block numbers. He should block SiL now. How many more times does this need to be said?

Order the Lundy Bancroft book recommended a few times on this thread.
Get DH to read it.
Ask him if he wants his beloved child to be the wife of a man like that. To be manipulated into giving further airtime to a man like that. To know her dad is spending an hour on the phone to a man like that, all concerned about giving him a fair hearing, tea & sympathy.

Do I need to rock up at your house with my own copy & beat DH around the ears with it before he sees how appallingly naive he has been?

Well done OP.

You are sensible, thank god.

Your daughter is lucky to have one parent NOT prepared to facilitate her being abused.

I appreciate I am being harsh, but your daughter's father has enabled her abuse, and that is so shocking.

He may be a nice man but he is deeply wrong and mistaken.

My husband and most fathers would go through a SIL for a short cut at what your daughter has shared.

Your SIL is a mean, nasty, thieving, abusive bully.

His addiction to gambling is just another adjective to add to his description.

Blocking him and his manipulation IS the only way forward.

As is telling his CO that you don't want him positioned near your daughter.

I would go so far as to tell the CO that you will involve the police and blow this up publicly if he facilitates this abuser.

Play hardball, just like your manipulative SIL.

6 months as far away as possible is a start.

You owe him NOTHING.

Every time I come on this thread I recall your daughter so bullied by him she is sending videos of her cleaning.

The utter humiliation for her.

He would be dead to me and whatever happens to him in the future would NOT be my concern.

That anyone would do such a thing to MY child.

Hold on to your anger and recall how she arrived at such a place as to feel a video of her cleaning the loo was required to appease him.

He is an ABUSER.

The gambling didn't make him abuse.

What comes through from you posts @Icecreamlover63 is that you are grieving for the man you thought your SIL was too.

Allow yourself that grief (do not communicate it to your DD). Allow yourself to feel sad that the man you thought he was is no longer there. Then LET GO.

You and more so, your DH, need to acknowledge your own feelings about this in order to then let go of them and move on and be free to wholly support your DD.

She has been in an abusive relationship and it will take time for her to recover. Don't be fooled, it will not be a quick process for her and both her parents' focus should be on your DD.

@Icecreamlover63 you and your husband need to:
Stop communicating with your daughters abuser.
Stop offering support, it is not your place.
Stop undermining your daughters pain and her resolve to move on with her life.

You need to tell him to move on and block him.
He needs to be told very clearly he needs to choose one of the other options because he cannot come near to your daughter. Call his base and tell them this if necessary.

You and your husband are likely going to either push your daughter towards this man or make her resent you for not having her back on this.

I cannot say this clearly enough, you cannot be putting your daughter first whilst you are colluding with her abuser.
Stop it.

@Icecreamlover63

I'm glad that your family has now blocked all contact with SiL. Yes, let his family deal with him. It was pretty apparent from earlier posts that they were only too happy to try and shove all his shit onto your DD's shoulders. No more. They created it, they can deal with it.

Did you suggest to DD that she call the CO? She doesn't have to answer questions or get into the specific, just tell them that there will be no reconciliation and she doesn't want him stationed near her.

You know, unless I'm misunderstanding it sounds as if SiL said that he voluntarily went to the CO and 'laid his burden down'. I honestly find that a bit hard to believe. IMHO the CO was told by a third party. I remember 'back in the day' as a forces wife there was literally nothing you could keep secret. Somehow or other someone was either told or overheard something and 'passed it on' to someone who then sent it up the chain of command. It was a better 'intel' system than the CIA. Perhaps someone saw or heard him telling DD to 'get out' and noticed that she hadn't been back. 🤷🏼‍♀️

@billy1966

Well done OP.

You are sensible, thank god.

Your daughter is lucky to have one parent NOT prepared to facilitate her being abused.

I appreciate I am being harsh, but your daughter's father has enabled her abuse, and that is so shocking.

He may be a nice man but he is deeply wrong and mistaken.

My husband and most fathers would go through a SIL for a short cut at what your daughter has shared.

Your SIL is a mean, nasty, thieving, abusive bully.

His addiction to gambling is just another adjective to add to his description.

Blocking him and his manipulation IS the only way forward.

As is telling his CO that you don't want him positioned near your daughter.

I would go so far as to tell the CO that you will involve the police and blow this up publicly if he facilitates this abuser.

Play hardball, just like your manipulative SIL.

6 months as far away as possible is a start.

You owe him NOTHING.

Every time I come on this thread I recall your daughter so bullied by him she is sending videos of her cleaning.

The utter humiliation for her.

He would be dead to me and whatever happens to him in the future would NOT be my concern.

That anyone would do such a thing to MY child.

Hold on to your anger and recall how she arrived at such a place as to feel a video of her cleaning the loo was required to appease him.

He is an ABUSER.

The gambling didn't make him abuse.

This

If he did that to my child he would need medical attention for a long time….

Stop feeling sorry for the man you want him to be, and start being angry at what he’s done to your child.
And block him now before he gets to manipulate you again…

@Icecreamlover63

Ladies, Her is the latest update and boy do I need advice and quick. DD is in work right now but will be home at about 7. SIL has just been on the phone to DH for over an hour. He is absolutely mortified he is completely broken. He has been put in front of his commanding officer and told him everything. How he gambled £3500 in 2019 How he faked a break in and stole money How he gambled £5000 approximately in 2021 How he made his wife feel so bad she filmed herself cleaning the bathroom

His commanding officer went ballistic absolutely ballistic and told him that he has been disgusting. He said he is going to move him and he can go on tour for 6 months or recruitment for 6 months or move to a station nearer to our house so he can try to repair his marriage.

My DH was calm and measured and clearly felt uncomfortable but listened because like I’ve said before he is kind. Then he stated all of the above and said this is your fault not my daughters. DH said he had bought this all by himself and maybe the should have thought about this before it got to this stage. He agreed and said he was completely to blame and he wants to put it right he said he would do absolutely anything. He cannot imagine his life without her.
I felt for him at that stage I really did. He has had such a horrible childhood pushed from pillar to post and many of you will understand this.
GAMBLING COMPLETELY CHANGED HIM!
When we first knew him he was such a sweet man, naive kind helpful and was totally devoted to our DD. He assured us he has not bet in 3 weeks and has done the MOSES scheme so he cannot enter a bookmaker within 20 miles of their house. He has put GAMSTOP on his account and cannot have a bet with any company. He cannot use his debit card in any bookmakers either.
My DH is sitting here not knowing how to feel ! I’m sitting here fed up. My DH asked him to let her talk to him one night this week. He said he would rather it not be a night in the week because they both had work the next day and he didn’t fee is was appropriate. He wanted her to talk at the weekend. Well my DH said come here then. He didn’t want to impose was SIL response!
I never swear but I’m so pissed off right now. This is not my marriage and he should be talking to my DD not us. He sounded desperate.
My DH said he would talk to our DD tonight (she is not talking to SIL ).
What do we do?

Update:- SIL did not speak to his commanding officer - he spoke to the padre. All of it was lies! Everything he didn’t tell the padre anything- apparently his marriage is fine. I can’t go into details but I wanted the people following this thread to know. Everything is in hand. He has been found out!

Thanks goodness.
Great news.
That is so positive.

Thank you for updating OP.

Mind yourself too as you mind your daughter.

Hopefully this will speed up her freedom from him.

Gamblers are such liars unfortunately, it is not the least bit surprising.

So pleased for you all.

No surprise about the latest update OP.
Remember - he only rang to manipulate you.

In DH's hour-long phone call with him, DH was treating him, & reacting to him, as one reasonable man to another. DH needs to be disabused of that notion immediately, & I hope this latest bombshell (no surprise to us who've been through similar & know "the script" - shocking to people who believe they are dealing with a 'normal' person) will do the trick.

A wise & excellent poster round these parts. @TheFoundations, posted an analogy about how reasonable people get bamboozled & confounded by unreasonable people. The analogy is based on Cluster-B personality disorders (eg narcissism) but works for addicted & disordered personalities too:

As a definition of a cluster b personality disorder, I found it helpful to see it as a slightly different species. They look like us and can act like us, but they respond to different triggers. I heard a fox described as dog hardware with cat software, and that's what narcissists/psychopaths are like; they're programmed differently to the rest of us; a different human species. Once you learn about their behaviour patterns, you'll see that they're all the same, and very predictable. I found that disturbing until I realised that we all are. Respect us, we will respect you. Love us, we will have a soft spot for you. Swear at us, we will become defensive and upset. Cluster bs just have different responses. Love them, they will see that you can be used as a tool. Offend them, they will destroy you. If someone more useful loves them, they will walk away without a second glance. Stay on their side, they will eternally see you as a tool, and leave you in the toolshed, picking you up and putting you down whenever suits them.

I hope this helps your family 'gird your loins' - & thanks again, Foundations.

Ugh he’s such a shit bag.

Your poor daughter. Obviously let down by her husband, for all the reasons here. But equally as let down by her own father. I'd consider going NC with my father (or mother) if they continued to stay in contact with my abuser. What your husband did (with the phone calls) is inexcusable. He should have blocked SIL the second your daughter opened up about the abuse. So should you.

@FelicityPike

Ugh he’s such a shit bag.

Indeed he is. Over the past month I have witnessed things I thought I never expected.

Not at all surprising, really. If there's one thing a gambler is good at it's 'bluffing'.

So here is the update i promised.

The army welfare have rung my dd and they know the truth. They are making lots of referrals for SIL. I don’t know what for but nevertheless it’s four.

He will be moving back into barracks in the next 93 days. He will be staying in the countryside posting he has got for the next 4 years! (Something he will hate).

They are going to organise counselling for my dd and they are also going to book a financial mediator for them to sort out the money he owes on the credit card that he photographed and used fraudulently.

All in all he has been found out by the Army. I’m sure this will not look good on his records!

My DH has written to his parents and told them all of the facts that can be backed up.
How much SIL has taken out of their joint savings
How he threw my dd out and we had to pay for a hotel.
How he faked a break in !
How he shouted at my dd so much she get like she had to film herself cleaning.
He also explained how SIL had lied to senior Army officers, again a fact.

All in all this has been a horrible experience. I feel betrayed and hurt. My dh is disgusted with SIL and he has made this know to the army as well. My dd however is strong she knew it was wrong and has held her head up high and I just know she will be happy.

Coming onto Mumsnet was a good decision I have learnt a lot. So now hopefully after this mediation we can all move forward my dd can have the money she is owed paid back and we can just get in with our lives!
Thank you

Great update OP, thank you.

She is so lucky that you have had her back so comprehensively, that the MOD have taken it so seriously and that he will not be able to bullshit any of you again.

The mediation will be great to finalise things.

Your husband's letter was a good idea as was expression of distaste for him.

Your daughter will thrive and move forward.

Mind yourself and your health.

A good vitamin B complex is a great supplement to help manage stress and support your nervous system during difficult times.

Whew!! That's quite an update! And a good one. I'm glad DD is getting such good support from the military.

I think just about everything that can be done has now been done. SiL has been found out and dealt with by his superiors. DD is getting support. SiL's parents have been told the truth. Now all that remains is for DD to get a solicitor. But in the meantime it's definitely time for all of you to cut communications with SiL and his family. Time for all three of you to move forward in peace and unity.

Well done.

Shine a light on it with the authorities and then cut all contact.

Then up all your security and keep your wits about you.

He’s nasty.

Don’t give him air time or access.

@ESGdance

Well done.

Shine a light on it with the authorities and then cut all contact.

Then up all your security and keep your wits about you.

He’s nasty.

Don’t give him air time or access.

We have a ring doorbell and the Army have given us a hotline number.

I’m more concerned if he rings dd and is abusive to her x

She needs a safety strategy.

Maybe don’t answer his calls.

Tell him that she is only contactable by email and that all his emails are diverted to a folder that she will respond to once a week if they are relevant to their divorce proceedings - and after they have been filtered for abuse by someone else.

She needs to get ahead of any nastiness.

She could also agree to call him back - only when she is in loudspeaker with someone present - that the calls are for divorce negotiations only and will be recorded and any harassment reported.

Really though she doesn’t need to speak to this nasty, lying, manipulative, thieving, bullying, erratic, volatile thug ever again. She doesn’t need to be exposed to his rage - you and your DH have experienced a small part of it - her recovery of her self esteem needs her to be physically distant and emotionally detached. Every single communication will just damage her, set her back and knock back any progress. She doesn’t have time or obligation to indulge this dysfunctional character - she has endured too much for too long.